[PF] Suel Arcanamach gestalt help needed

[Andreaz]

Hello, fellow humanoids!
I'm part of a game where I'll play an Esper Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169532) // [something] / Suel Arcanamach / [something] gestalt.
Here's the rundown on how they changed when ported over to PF
Suel: extended spellstrength gone. Spells per day increased to be more similar to a sorcerer's. Caster level is 2*suel level, up to HD. Gaining caster levels from other classes, items or whatever does not double up.
ASF ignoring is no longer a %, but rather a "ignore light" -> "ignore medium" at levels 1 and 6.
Cantrips may be cast indefinitely as normal for full casters.
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Esper Knight: skills collapsed into the PF skillset.
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General: By default, all characters can use dex instead of str for attack and damage, provided the weapon is finesseable.
All 3.5 is ok, provided there's no chicanery.
Stats are 18 18 17 16 14 12
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So...here's the deal: I haven't decided yet which class to use on the suel side, nor have I decided how this character's actually going to fight!

Would you help me figuring out how this character will truly work?

[Andreaz]

A bump for great justice!
No one? ): I'll need at least a sketch before the next 5 hours or so.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I have no idea what PF changes in general, but for 3.5 going 2h + Power Attack + Arcane Strike would be your best choice.

It looks a bit MAD, considering Suel Arcanamach gets Cha-based casting and Esper Knight uses Wis for AC and power DCs. I'd go Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 14, put one level-up into Wis and the rest on Str, and get a +Cha item so you can get higher level SA spells. I haven't bothered to learn how Incarnum works, but maybe switch Wis and Cha and get Ascetic Mage. In that case, Cha-based dips like Paladin 2 would be useful. Starting off something like Sorcerer 4/ Paladin 2 on that side for low level buffs/utility like Benign Transposition, True Strike, Wings of Cover, and others without somatic components would be useful. That would also give you some extra spell slots to power Arcane Strike. Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) 4/ Paladin 2 would also be good, considering you'd get Evasion and Uncanny Dodge along with yet more feats and amazing skill points. Fighter 6 with Dungeoncrasher and Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) would also be good if you're sticking to a high Wisdom. After Suel Arcanamach your best choice to finish it out would probably be Dragon Disciple.

[Andreaz]

Arcane strike changed in pf. Now it's "swift action for [caster level / 4] damage and bypass DR/Magic".
"The way incarnum works" is basically a pool of energy you can dedicate to different items and feats to increase power(limited by hit dice), and can reallocate as a swift action. Espers do not have soulmelds so that mechanic is irrelevant for now.



I'm thinking primarily of going Illumian so that I can focus on either STR or DEX and leave cha at the minimum of 15.

The suel's spell list is not very conducive to attacking saves after all. Same goes for the esper, so as far as stats go wisdom is also optional, since the tricks i'm most interested in do not require or do not fail completely on saves, like Surge, Negate Energy, Push and so on.
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You speak of truth about sorceries, though i'm hesitant to only advance it 5 to 10 levels.

[Coidzor]

You look over the Arcanamach handbook? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159617)

What do you typically find yourself wanting to do in combat?

Abjurant Champion is always fun for a gish, though less so due to the Esperknight's BAB & HD contributions, still, progresses spellcasting through all 5 of its levels, and the benefits it gives make it so you don't need more than casting in light armor for the armor properties.

Hmm... Something like X/Suel 4/Abjurant Champion 5/Y while wearing light armor, dastana, and maybe a char-aina would help snag you some armor properties while greater luminous armor (though... you'd need to get the ability to cast sanctified spells x.x I believe there's a feat for that at least) would give you better than full-plate with the benefits that abjurant champion adds and let you get shield up as an auto-quickened spell.

Of course, you could instead grab another partial casting PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181091) and theurge on that side of the gestalt, since BAB and HD are taken care of by full-classing Esper Knight... and it even has ok skill points.

[Andreaz]

The "something X" is my primary concern :D It's probably what will define my playstyle...or not. I'll give a look at that list of prcs in a minute.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Before Suel Arcanamach, I'd probably go Psychic Warrior 6 (7), or Feat Rogue 4/ Paladin 2, or take six levels of either Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade. After one of those go Suel Arcanamach 4/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 9/ whatever 1.

Yet another option would be to start off Psychic Warrior 5/ Pyrokineticist 1 (or Sonokineticist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e)), then go Suel Arcanamach with whatever else. You can use Power Attack with the fire lash, since that can be used with a standard whip, and since it makes a touch attack you can always power attack for your full BAB. Point-Blank Shot adds a +1 to attack and damage with it all the time. Note that extra damage such as from power attack deals the same type as the weapon's base damage. With Esper Knight you could have a Vorpal Sonic Lash, which would be nothing short of awesome. In any case, I'd definitely get Speed of Thought and maybe even Up The Walls if you take Psychic Warrior.

Yet another option would be to take three bloodline levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) for a major bloodline in those first six levels.

You could start out with Warlock and get Eldritch Glaive, and if you can get away with it go Warlock 6/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Eldritch Theurge 8/ Warlock 4.

[Andreaz]

Good point with the fire lash, and PF's psychic warrior has a couple tricks up its sleeve at level 5. I have incentive to go well past level 4 in the suel class too, its caster level advances twice as fast.

[Jude_H]

Eunuch Warlock makes a strong cap to limited-progression casters, by giving spell slots and spells/day beyond those granted by the class itself. The only problems are alignment restrictions and a sacrifice (or two) that you might not be into.

[hex0]

Esper 2/Monk 2//Esper 2/Paladin2//Esper2/Psy War 2//Esper4/Suel 4//Esper 10/Swiftblade 10 :smallbiggrin:

Psy Warrior and Monk offer 5 bonus feats and evasion. Paladin nets you saves.

[hex0]

Good point with the fire lash, and PF's psychic warrior has a couple tricks up its sleeve at level 5. I have incentive to go well past level 4 in the suel class too, its caster level advances twice as fast.

Duskblade 3/Esper 2, Paladin 2/Esper 1, Abjurant Champion 1/Esper 1, Esper 10/Suel 10, Swiftblade 4 (or Abjurant Champion 4)/Esper 4

[hex0]

Do the favorable rules for Suel Arcanamach apply to Sublime Chord as well?

Bard 3/Esper 3
Paladin of Freedom 2/Esper 2
Abjurant Champion 1/Esper 1
Suel 4/Esper 4
Suel 6/Sublime Chord 6
Sublime Chord 4/Esper (or Abjurant Champion) 4

Your BAB and HP would be lower and you'd have less Esper Knight...but 9th level spells and MANY 4th and 5th level spells to choose from...or abuse with Versatile Spellcaster. Also your FORT save is going to be low unless you use fractionals.

For a Psionic build with Warmind

Psionic Rogue or Psi Warrior 2/Esper 2
Paladin 3/Esper 3
Warmind 1/Esper 1
Warmind 9/Suel 9
Suel 1/Esper 1
Esper 4/(open 4)

...Or

Psy Warrior or Psy Rogue 6/Esper 6
Suel 10/Esper 10
Slayer 4/Esper 4

Pathfinder lets you continue your Psy Warrior progression with Warmind (maybe ask if you can use this for Divine Mind too so you can get Divine Grace):

Psy War 5/ Esper 5, Warmind 1/Esper 1...or Divine Mind 6/Esper 6
Suel 10/Warmind 10
Esper 4/Slayer 4

or more Esper Heavy

Psy War 5/ Esper 5, Warmind 1/Esper 1...or Divine Mind 6/Esper 6
Suel 10/Esper 10
Slayer or Warmind 4/Esper 4