Druidic Farming

[TechnOkami]

This is an idea I've had in my head for a while (mainly as a steady source of income and clout as a food source), and since the Druid is my favorite class, I figured I should actually ask and get advice from the GitP community.

In short: how to farm as a Druid.

Now, farming itself is relatively self explanatory, and Plant Growth synergizing with farming makes it even better. But... how can it be done faster? Is it possible to, say, cast a few spells or one spell repeatedly to get a full years yield within a day to a week? How fast can a Druid grow crops if he really put his mind to it?

[subject42]

What level are we talking about here?

[TechnOkami]

What level are we talking about here?

1-20 if possible. Or rather: when my aforementioned farming goal can be achieved (so, the minimum level required to do it).

[flumphy]

Well, we have to keep in mind what this is going to do to the soil. Presumably the druid doesn't have access to modern fertilizers, and while she may know about crop rotation techniques, too fast of a harvesting cycle won't leave time for the land to lie fallow or maybe even allow the previous crop to decompose. The plants she forces to grow with magic will probably still grow, but after she's done...

Are we assuming the druid cares about doing this ethically in regard to the environment? And if so, how do we get around this issue?

[Gavinfoxx]

Flumphy, I'm sure that a Druid with SUPERHUMAN Knowledge Nature *and* a large number of divinations and spells that let her inherently know how the natural world is doing will know all about crop rotation and the problems with that. She might not know the scientific reasons BEHIND why it is right to do something, but she'll know when something is messed up and what the right and wrong thing is to do.

[The Glyphstone]

The Gleaner NPC class that used to be hosted on this site had a few farming-related spells that were also added to the Druid spell list. You might be able to find the page with the Wayback Machine.

[subject42]

(I'm working with Pathfinder here, since that's what I have on hand)

1st level:
Create water (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-water) and Expeditious Excavation (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/expeditious-excavation) will let a druid irrigate small patches of earth at will and bust out unpleasant rocks and tree stumps. Harnessing his animal companion will let him till the ground effectively. That puts him considerably ahead of your level 1 commoner.

3rd level:
Defoliate (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defoliate) will let the druid clear a new field without much manual labor. The dead plant material will also act as an effective mulch.

Soften Earth and Stone (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/soften-earth-and-stone) will also help clear rough ground.

5th level:
Plant Growth (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/plant-growth) is a gimme.

Speak with Plants (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/speak-with-plants) is useful to find out if they are lacking a specific nutrient that would enhance their growth.

Daylight (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/daylight) at this level guarantees just shy of an hour a day of strong sunlight, assuming it provides the right light. Based on the description regarding undead creatures, that's not a given.

7th level:
Control Water (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/control-water) can be used in conjunction with rice-paddy style channels to irrigate large areas quickly.


Eventually you're going to get into high-level stuff such as weather control, as well.

[Coidzor]

Well, we have to keep in mind what this is going to do to the soil. Presumably the druid doesn't have access to modern fertilizers, and while she may know about crop rotation techniques, too fast of a harvesting cycle won't leave time for the land to lie fallow or maybe even allow the previous crop to decompose. The plants she forces to grow with magic will probably still grow, but after she's done...

Devising a way to accelerate decomposition would be necessary to have a full accelerated production cycle, yes. But if you're putting in and taking out the same amount, just faster, there's no real way that can be doing harm unless the techniques themselves are harmful.

Considering magic is involved, I'm willing to accept that plant growth is at least partially a result of energy being put into the system by magic...

@ glyphstone: The Gleaner (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html)lives.

[Squiggles]

You can also harness Wood Wose from the SpC to increase your productivity.

[flumphy]

Flumphy, I'm sure that a Druid with SUPERHUMAN Knowledge Nature *and* a large number of divinations and spells that let her inherently know how the natural world is doing will know all about crop rotation and the problems with that. She might not know the scientific reasons BEHIND why it is right to do something, but she'll know when something is messed up and what the right and wrong thing is to do.

I said she'd probably know about crop rotation. People in the real life Middle Ages did. My point was that when you're harvesting once per week, a lot of the benefits disappear. You wouldn't get the natural pest or disease control crop rotation provides, for instance. You may not be able to let the previous crop decompose, if there's no magical way to do so. Erosion could become a problem, with the constant overturning of soil with no long-term root structure. And face it, if you're taking time to fertilize at all, you're technically being less efficient than you could be when it comes to pumping out produce in the short term.

My question was whether we were going for absolute maximum output or keeping the druid's likely ethics in mind.

[TechnOkami]

Hrmn... this is sounding more like a Druid and a Wizard with the Druid advancing plant productivity and supplying things like water and sunlight while the wizard literally speeds up time. I'm more than confident there's a spell for that.

[Coidzor]

Hrmn... this is sounding more like a Druid and a Wizard with the Druid advancing plant productivity and supplying things like water and sunlight while the wizard literally speeds up time. I'm more than confident there's a spell for that.

Heck, Genesis by certain interpretations.

Go in, set up an auto-resetting trap to continually expand your acreage, set up an ecosystem to your liking, preferably with some method to have energy/matter go into the system so that it's sustainable, have immortal simulacra servitors to deliver the produce back to the material plane.

Drown your enemies in an ever increasing mountain of foodstuffs.

Of course, this is basically level 17ish, level 15ish for artificers.

[TechnOkami]

Heck, Genesis by certain interpretations.

Go in, set up an auto-resetting trap to continually expand your acreage, set up an ecosystem to your liking, preferably with some method to have energy/matter go into the system so that it's sustainable, have immortal simulacra servitors to deliver the produce back to the material plane.

Drown your enemies in an ever increasing mountain of foodstuffs.

Of course, this is basically level 17ish, level 15ish for artificers.

XD I lol'd, so hard.

But seriously, I'd like to have an answer to my original question.

[hobbitkniver]

I don't think druid would like farming. It's using nature to your advantage. I'd say they'd only allow foraging, but druid philosophy is very different in different campaigns/stories.

[Gavinfoxx]

Aren't there a number of spells somewhere that causes a big big wave of water?

[TechnOkami]

Aren't there a number of spells somewhere that causes a big big wave of water?

Control Weather :P

[The Glyphstone]

Control Weather :P

Tsunami, in Stormwrack I think. That wouldn't be helpful for farming, though.

[Gavinfoxx]

I meant that there are like three or four spells that specifically create waves of fresh water. Just put the simplest of those down an irrigation channel that branches off...

[AMFV]

I meant that there are like three or four spells that specifically create waves of fresh water. Just put the simplest of those down an irrigation channel that branches off...

Flooded soil is bad.

The problem is that accelerating growth doesn't replenish the resources in the soil. You're going to wind up with soil that is completely unusable within a few rotations. Of course accelerating time would help, but then you'd be better off using traditional farming techniques. D&D really is not well equipped to deal with soil science and agriculture. It's like the fact that no desert cultures paralleling those of earth would exist with create water. D&D exists in kind of a paradox with reality, farming is a pretty involved art, and depends a great deal on the natural order therefore D&D (without gobs of house rules) isn't suited to realistic farming.

[Hanuman]

I don't know what kind of druids you run, but real druids were hunter gatherers.
In terms of magical cultivating powers, goodberry.

Druids have nurseries too, but thats to cultivate specific rare components for their... infusions? The magical munchies they brew from masters of the wild.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Flooded soil is bad.

The problem is that accelerating growth doesn't replenish the resources in the soil. You're going to wind up with soil that is completely unusable within a few rotations. Of course accelerating time would help, but then you'd be better off using traditional farming techniques. D&D really is not well equipped to deal with soil science and agriculture. It's like the fact that no desert cultures paralleling those of earth would exist with create water. D&D exists in kind of a paradox with reality, farming is a pretty involved art, and depends a great deal on the natural order therefore D&D (without gobs of house rules) isn't suited to realistic farming.Most RPGs, games, fiction, etc. are made with oodles and oodles of handwavium. If campaigns are delving into how the populace gets its food, you get auto-resetting create food and water traps, obviating farming altogether. That rabbit hole goes very far down. I'm scared. Hold me?

[subject42]

The problem is that accelerating growth doesn't replenish the resources in the soil. You're going to wind up with soil that is completely unusable within a few rotations.

You know what would replenish the soil? The ground-up corpses of orcs. That requires murder. Adventurers (including druids) are good at murder.

The circle of life is complete.

[Coidzor]

With good composting techniques it's about as good as a pig farm about making it so you don't have to look at orc giblets, too.

Well, that's that question answered.

Ah, murder, what problems can't you solve for adventurers?

[Hanuman]

You know what would replenish the soil? The ground-up corpses of orcs. That requires murder. Adventurers (including druids) are good at murder.

The circle of life is complete.
Sounds yellow, and musky.