Pathfinder Trapper - Ranger Archetype Question

[Prospector]

So I really like the concept, and having someone other than the Rogue gain access to Trap Finding is really nice. But the traps aren't that good from how I understand them. Am I missing something or are they as bad as I think they are?

[Bhaakon]

Well, they're not good.

I like the ranger archetypes that trade off spell casting because I never really thought it fit the class well from a fluff standpoint. But mechanically, spells for a couple mediocre traps is not even close to an even swap.

[Prospector]

It might make it more worth it if there was some sort of level scaling for the damage dealing traps. Maybe another die for every 2 or 3 Ranger Levels? Does that sound reasonable?

[Coidzor]

If you're going to homebrew, just fold detecting and disabling magical traps entirely into the associated skills. Rogues already get a level-based bonus to doing so anyway.

[Prospector]

The Trapper gets that in the Trap Finding class feature, 1/2 level I believe. I might be playing one in an upcoming game, and wanted to know:

1) Are the traps were as meh as I thought? (which sounds like a yes)
2) What could be a reasonable adjustment I might propose to my DM to make them (traps) a slightly better trade off?

[Talentless]

Trapper get that in the Trap Finding, 1/2 level I believe. I might be playing one in an upcoming game, and wanted to know:

1) If the traps were as meh as I thought? (which sounds like a yes)
2) What could be a reasonable adjustment I might propose to my DM to make them (traps) a slightly better trade off.

Part of it is that from a design issue. Traps were never really intended for PC adventurers to use. Not saying that they can't go and use them, but what the rules were written for was the standard dungeon diving party.

And the standard dungeon diving party doesn't have the materials to construct the elaborate traps that actually ARE good traps. Mostly because the good traps have to be built into the building and doors themselves.

The best use for traps honestly is really hard to do for PCs unless it is in some campaign where they are on defense, and KNOW that they will be attacked, and that they have time to do all the trapmaking and rebuilding necessary.

A reasonable adjustment, beyond simply not making a trapmaster, would be to allow the damage traps to be enhanced with weapon enhancements(if they aren't able to already, never paid excessive attention to the trapper). And at ammunition price levels for the enchanted stuff, that way you aren't breaking the bank for a single use trap.

That way you can effectively use them at higher levels for some ok damage, and DR penetration.

[Bhaakon]

Even if you improve the traps, they're still going to be useless in the vast majority of situations until you get the launch trap ability.


On second inspection, a launched poison trap appears to inflict 1d2 con damage a round for 6 rounds with no save on a hit. So they're not all lame.

[Coidzor]

The Trapper gets that in the Trap Finding class feature, 1/2 level I believe.

I guess that trapfinding wasn't really a draw for you after all then from your reaction. *shrug* Your OP certainly seemed to indicate that being able to deal with magical traps at all was part of the incentive for picking the archetype.

If you think the traps are meh and are willing to homebrew anyway, using a non-meh Ranger and opening up magical traps to everyone with the relevant skillranks seems like it's a lot less effort/headache for you.


2) What could be a reasonable adjustment I might propose to my DM to make them (traps) a slightly better trade off?

In that case... custom traps to bring them in line with the power level you're going to be operating on or just to increase the versatility of the arsenal, increased scalability, either by linking the damage to a check result or level in case of damage and the other effects to a similar axis.

Perhaps some with some utility to them as well.

[Prospector]

I guess that trapfinding wasn't really a draw for you after all then from your reaction. *shrug* Your OP certainly seemed to indicate that being able to deal with magical traps at all was part of the incentive for picking the archetype.

If you think the traps are meh and are willing to homebrew anyway, using a non-meh Ranger and opening up magical traps to everyone with the relevant skillranks seems like it's a lot less effort/headache for you.

No, that was the main draw since the group is looking like it won 't have a rogue in it. Just a tad disappointed with traps (seriously 1d6 worth of fire damage? No scaling?).


In that case... custom traps to bring them in line with the power level you're going to be operating on or just to increase the versatility of the arsenal, increased scalability, either by linking the damage to a check result or level in case of damage and the other effects to a similar axis.

Perhaps some with some utility to them as well.

If the DM is okay with modifying or adding traps, then I was going to suggest some of your suggest (like the above) to them and see what they like. I like the idea of expanding their area.

[Wagadodo]

If you want trap finding which really only gives the ability to disarm magical traps, and 1/2 your level as a bonus to your perception and disable device check. If you don't like the Trapsmith variant. Might look at the Urban Ranger Variant. That gives you trapsense also, but defiantly makes you less woodsy type of ranger. Variant out the Advance players guide.

[Greenfeuer]

The trap explodes in flames, dealing a number of points of fire damage equal to 1d6 + 1/2 the ranger’s level to the triggering creature (Reflex negates). If it is an extraordinary trap, the ranger must use an explosive material such as alchemist’s fire when setting the trap.

You still add Ranger level.

We made a house rule that Trapper uses Ranks in Craft Traps + Half ranger level to determind DC and uses of day. That gives possiblities for som creative "Add" ons to the traps to make them more powerfull too. My GM really wanted me to have Craft Traps because it would fit both rp wise + "realistically" speaking so he gave it to me as a exstra class skill beside my normal craft "Cooking".

[Triskavanski]

My Issue with the trapper Ranger was the fact that its DC to Spot/Disarm the traps is the same as the dc to reflex. Since Saves grow slower than skills and this is based around saves, it means that the trap is pretty easy to disarm

[Psyren]

Like most other aspects of the game, Sturgeon's Law applies, but there are good traps in the mix. Some of my favorites include Freezing Trap (entangle, no save - a failed save makes them immobile too), Quicksand Trap (nasty for mindless creatures, who can't use the Swim skill at all, as well as armored humanoids), Sleet/Smoke Trap (blocks vision at a chokepoint), Limning Trap (cancels a creature's invisibility or mundane stealth), and a Tripwire to mess with charging creatures (for many monsters, hitting their reflex is easier than hitting their CMD especially if they eat the huge charging penalty.)

What makes them particularly useful is that their save DC scales with your level, unlike your spells.


My Issue with the trapper Ranger was the fact that its DC to Spot/Disarm the traps is the same as the dc to reflex. Since Saves grow slower than skills and this is based around saves, it means that the trap is pretty easy to disarm

Right, but how many monsters do you know running around disarming traps? It's not like that Dire Tiger, Golem or Girallon you're stalking has a set of thieves' tools.

[Triskavanski]

The ones that sneak into our camp at night past the fighter's perception check tend to be a big ones that would do that.

[stack]

If the only concern is rogue replacement, note that other classes get archetypes that grant trapfinding. Seeker sorcerers, for example, or seeker oracles if you want something beefier chassis-wise.

[Psyren]

You can also get Trapfinding via a trait or VMC.

(Not that you need it in PF anyway.)


The ones that sneak into our camp at night past the fighter's perception check tend to be a big ones that would do that.

If your GM is specifically sending monsters at you designed to look for and disarm traps, then that is a pretty clear signal not to bother using them I'd say.