A note on world-building

[never_shades]

I recently made a pseudo-realistic world with all sorts of interesting geographical features, town names with real meaning I translated into Spanish, Turkish, and Maltese, and public figures with in-depth characters and such.

When I ran this setting, I realized something very important: you can make your world a a giant egg or a mobius strip or on the back of a giant whale, but in the end what really matters is the small scale. Always make sure to but the emphasis on what the players actually encounter: towns, cities, small scale villians, etc.

Maybe the political system you designed is super neat and has all sorts of realistic complexities, but it won't matter if the players never encounter it because they are to busy fighting generic evil cultists who want to destroy the world with a magical maguffin.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is work on the small scale as much as you work on the large scale; don't just roughly sketch out the starting town, flesh it out with public figures, atmosphere, local gangs, or whatever you want. If you do, I guarantee your players will be more interested in that nifty political system you designed.

[Stubbazubba]

This is a very good tip. The more I ponder on your words the wiser and wiser they seem. Thanks.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd take it a step further...

Your world can be a giant egg or a mobius strip on the back of a giant whale... but until the players actually give enough of a damn about it to find out, it's actually neither.

Play around with Schrodinger's Indeterminate State. Detail out what your players interact with. It gives you more wiggle room to pull stuff out of your behind when you need to.

For example, if you never mentioned the kingdom over to the [direction] before, they could be literally *ANYTHING*. But more specifically, they are exactly what you need at that time to further plot. And from then on, that's what they are.

The thing about a sandbox world is... it's sand. You can make sandcastles out of it, and tunnels, and all that jaz... but until you build something? It's all just sand, mutable, and ready to be shaped at your convenience.

The problem with planning out your world ahead of time? It becomes too rigid. What if your party was sitting with their thumbs up their bums inventing new exploits to get everything not nailed down, and most of that too, and you need to get them going on a timeline again? Well, an invading army would be a swell way to go 'Hey! Get up off yer arse and DO something'. But if all the neighboring areas are friendly, then you've built in a real problem.

But if you've never described the next door kingdom before, then suddenly they're [something objectionable to the current campaign] who are [insert plot twist here].

Just remember, from that point on... that is what they are. You've just defined something, it's no longer in an indeterminate state. However, there's nothing that says that Random Village #11534 can't be sympathizers, and secretly wanting to help the party if they aren't going to just waltz in swinging swords and blasting magic.

[Elemental]

I agree. You can't breathe without atmosphere.

[Elemental]

Also a good point. It's very difficult to come up with unexpected plot twists if everything is explained.

[Elemental]

I personally favour a mixture of various methods. I usually give some areas a high level of details, and then mix those areas up with wilderness, frontiers and vague regions. It gives you a good grounding for the beginning, but there's also the potential for developing the world as you go.
However, I do find it hard to not just draw everything in at once.

[Zeta Kai]

I agree with the "plan global, plot local" approach, & I think that it is the only way to make a manageable setting. Most setting designers have these grand, cosmic ideas for how they want their pantheons & their planes arranged, with this mighty force opposing this mighty force in an epic balance that defines the universe with its elegant symmetry. They often forget that the players will often approach these things from an ant-sized view, & will need something to do while they wait to get powerful enough to handle such lofty concepts.

Whenever a 'brewer approaches me with one of these settings (& it happens with wearing frequency), I will listen to their tales of gods & goddesses, full of alliances & intrigue. I will smile at their eons-long back stories, full of long dead empires & far-flung clashing nations. I will nod as they explain their clever overarching cosmos, full of strange & exotic permutations of reality.

And I always ask, at the end of it all, "Where's the bar?"

"Bar?"

"You know, the bar? The tavern? Where the PC meet up & band together? Where they get their first quest?"

This is usually met with some shoe-grinding, some navel-staring, & more than a little stammering. "Well, the major races are all involved in the looming Mega-War, which threatens to destr-"

"Where. Is. The. Bar."

"Well, I guess it could be in the capital of the Sel'ovri'dynian Empire, which is currently at war with the Ssarpa-"

"Okay. Great. Tell me about the bar."

"Well, in the tongue of the Sel'ovri'dynians, they call their taverns ulv'ariae. You see, thousands of years ago, the original Sel'ov-"

<sigh>


Plan Global, Plot Local.

If you don't intend to show the players yet, then don't worry about it until later. The PCs only need a few people to talk to, a place to get together, & a few plot hooks, & a dungeon to delve. Everything else is gravy, & trust me, you can bury a steak in gravy until you can't even see it anymore. And that's kinda gross.

[Elemental]

I agree. Sure it's great to be part of a vibrant, complex world, but that's useless at level one. The only thing you need to know about the world is that's it's there.

[Elemental]

Unless you've got a player with max ranks in knowledge(history).

[Omeganaut]

I'd say that if you are creating your own world, the you want to start small. If you are creating a world for publication, you do also have to cover all of the big international details, but for just one game, making it up as you go not only offers flexibility, but gives the chance to players to make up parts of it (mostly through their background, but they will be driving the creation of the world). That way, not only are the characters altering the world, they are making Their personal world for the characters, which I feel can be a lot more fulfilling that using a stock setting, although both sides could be argued.

[Owrtho]

Plan Global, Plot Local.

If you don't intend to show the players yet, then don't worry about it until later. The PCs only need a few people to talk to, a place to get together, & a few plot hooks, & a dungeon to delve. Everything else is gravy, & trust me, you can bury a steak in gravy until you can't even see it anymore. And that's kinda gross.

I'd say I generally agree with this methodology. Most of the focus for running a game should go into what's important for the players in the more immediate area. Still some global elements need to be decided early.
Anything that is going to have a major impact on the setting in most all facets should be decided upon early on. For example, you should let the players know the entire setting is underwater at the outset, rather then deciding it 3 sessions in. Or less noticeable but still important, if all magic is considered evil and being seen using it in town will cause a lynch mob. Such things are generally important (as are any commonly known world aspects that mechanically impact the game and/or might affect players class choices).
Similarly, you should decided how involved/well known gods are, and if they are well known, at least the names of the local pantheon and if any are considered evil.
About the same importance of the above, is if any of the standard races are absent, and more importantly if uncommon ones are present. The players shouldn't first find out that there is a common race of insect people that frequently trade with the city after they wind up in jail for an unprovoked attack on a trader they thought was a monster from the description.

That said, once the key things that are important to the settings and impact the players are decided upon, the more local details are important. The neighbouring kingdoms, capitals, war between the gods, and ancient histories and myths of the setting aren't important unless the they impact the current plot, or are Chekhov's Guns for plans happening later in the game.

Owrtho

[Valley]

And of course, the world's bar could have good chicken wings.
...
What?

[Yora]

That said, once the key things that are important to the settings and impact the players are decided upon, the more local details are important. The neighbouring kingdoms, capitals, war between the gods, and ancient histories and myths of the setting aren't important unless the they impact the current plot, or are Chekhov's Guns for plans happening later in the game.

That depends. Good background information that helps understanding why things are now as they are is never useless work.
It's what makes the setting come alive and appear like an actual world in which things happen for reasons.

[Tzi]

That depends. Good background information that helps understanding why things are now as they are is never useless work.
It's what makes the setting come alive and appear like an actual world in which things happen for reasons.

This is very true in my experience.

I've homebrewed an entire setting and the players went on a quest to investigate and recapture an abandoned mining town. I gave the town a lot of rich detail, lore and story. For example they found the former post office and started reading mail that never got delivered, or found the towns chapel and administration building (It was a mining company town) and I can say they had more fun reading and sifting through court records and official town documents then fighting any of the perilous foes they encountered.

The town’s wizard (A central character for the plot of the town) for example had his name all over various documents from a court case of him pressing charges against local kids he felt were vandalizing his garden to his church donation records.

I’ll definitely say details on a local level can make or break the place. It isn’t enough that the city has a university, but what does the university specialize, why was it founded? Who founded it and of course what is its name and who is the dean.

[Owrtho]

That depends. Good background information that helps understanding why things are now as they are is never useless work.
It's what makes the setting come alive and appear like an actual world in which things happen for reasons.

A agree. I'd also note I didn't say it was useless, just that it isn't important, at least to the immediate needs of the player. While it might be nice to have plenty of lore ready, and is likely able to be helpful when later flushing out a setting as the adventure continues, it usually isn't something that will come up for most players when the game is still starting out, and as such can be put off more. Mind how much time you have to prepare a setting can impact how much you get done. Personally, if I have plenty of time, I prefer to have a fairly flushed out world, with plenty of lore and other information explaining the workings of the setting as a whole, but with the actual geography of the modern time fairly undefined except around where the players will be (where there would be a similar amount of detail to the rest of the setting as a whole). Thus I'll have a starting point an a mailable environment to work with as the game progresses, but will have a solid foundation on which to build it (as well as possible inspiration if some new objective or plot event is needed).

That said, if I'm in a hurry to build the setting, I'd prioritize much of the lore after designing the starting area and getting the basic intro prepared, as it won't come up till later if it ever does.

Owrtho