Stat Yourself!

[SowZ]

Pretty straight forward. Shoot for your actual skills and knowledge base. We will use Point Buy, between 22 and 28, (I went with 22,) and levels 1 to 5, (I picked 3.) 3e, 3.5, Pathfinder, and even d20 modern are all good as long as you remember copyright rules. Optimization isn't important, (I took an NPC class and an unimportant Weapon Focus!) This is about how you translate mechanically.

I would stat myself as a Human Psion 1/Scout 1/Warrior 1

Str 9-
Dex 14-
Con 10-
Int 15-
Wis 9-
Cha 13-
Telepath
Power Points=5
Powers=Astral Traveler, Conceal Thoughts, Empty Mind
Skills
Balance: Ranks 1=3
Bluff: Ranks 3=4
Climb: Ranks 3=2
Concentration: Ranks 2=2
Diplomacy: Ranks 3=4
Escape Artist: Ranks 1=3
Heal: Ranks 2=1
Jump: Ranks 3=2
Move Silently: Ranks 2=4
Knowledge (Nature): Ranks 1=3
Knowledge (Star Trek): Ranks 2=4
Knowledge (Religion): Ranks 1=3
Listen: Ranks 3=2
Perform (Act): Ranks 2=3
Profession (Carpentry): Ranks 3=2
Profession (Filmmaking): Ranks 4=3
Psicraft: Ranks 3=5
Search: Ranks 1=3
Sense Motive: Ranks 5=4
Sleight of Hand: Ranks 2=4
Speak Language (Deutsch): Ranks 1=3
Spot: Ranks 3=2
Survival: Ranks 2=1
Swim: Ranks 3=2
Feats: Iron Will- Point Blank Shot- Precise Shot- Psionic Talent- Weapon Focus (Spear)
Leaves me with 16 HP, +1 BAB, Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +3
Attack:
Masterwork Shortspear. +2 to hit/1d6-1
Masterwork Winchester 94’. +4 to hit/2d10+(1d6 if Skirmish)
I never claimed to be combat optimized...

If I went a little lower powered I'd drop my Int and Cha by one and lose the Warrior level. If I went higher powered I'd raise my Str, Con, and Cha by one a piece and get a new Scout level.

Have fun!

[Alleran]

The majority of people would be non-heroic classes (commoner, expert, aristocrat, warrior).

I'll go for Expert 2 / Monk 1 being the most likely translation of my levels.

[TheJake]

Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Hard to pick a class. I'd go Bard for the jack of all trades thing, but my singing is terrible. That's my sister's job :) I'd guess Figher/Wizard aiming to get into some prestige class that suits my ecclectic skillset (assuming I can use a real class).

Otherwise, Fighter 2/Expert 6. :)


- J.

[OverdrivePrime]

:( Awww... but real life isn't point buy. This is going to come down to which attributes I value least - I've put a lot of effort into improving my attribute points since I started out as a level one adventurer. Ah well, enough whining.

(28 point buy)

STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 12

Neutral Good Human Male
6'-4, 210 lbs, Brown hair, Blue Eyes, Transcendentalist
Ranger 1 / Spirit Shaman 1 / Warblade 2

Feats
1st level: Improved Unarmed Strike
Human bonus: Improved Grapple
3rd level: Power Attack

Skill Ranks
Appraise: 1
Balance: 3
Bluff: 1
Climb: 2
Concentration: 1
Craft (woodworking): 3
Craft (website): 3
Craft (drawing): 2
Decipher Script: 0
Diplomacy: 6
Disable Device: 0
Disguise: 0
Escape Artist: 0
Forgery: 0
Gather Information: 3
Handle Animal: 4
Heal: 2
Intimidate: 2
Jump: 3
Knowledge (Arcana): 2
Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering): 3
Knowledge (Geography): 2
Knowledge (History): 3
Knowledge (Local Milwaukee): 4
Knowledge (Local Chicago): 2
Knowledge (Nature): 5
Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty): 1
Knowledge (Religion): 3
Knowledge (The Planes): 1
Knowledge (Dungeoneering): 1
Knowledge (Science): 3
Knowledge (Internet Marketing Strategies): 5
Knowledge (80s): 3
Listen: 1
Martial Lore: 2
Move Silently: 0
Open Lock: 0
Perform (Oration): 2
Perform (Storytelling): 4
Perform (Comedy): 2
Perform (Dance): 2
Profession (Computer Analyst): 4
Profession (Architect): 2
Profession (Marketing): 4
Profession (Sailor): 1
Ride: 1
Drive: 4
Search: 4
Sense Motive: 5
Sleight of Hand: 1
Speak Language: German
Spellcraft: 1 (eh, I used to date an asatru runecaster)
Spot: 4
Survival: 4
Swim: 3
Tumble: 3
Use Magic Device: 0
Use Technological Device: 3
Use Rope: 1

[prufock]

You named the thread wrong. I think there was a unanimous board decision some time ago that required these threads to be called "Overestimate Yourself!"

[World]

Some poeple didn't read that the most of humans have all stats around 10-11. I'd allow max a 13.

[OverdrivePrime]

Some poeple didn't read that the most of humans have all stats around 10-11. I'd allow max a 13.

Anyone here want to grow up to be 'average'? 10-11 is the human average for stats. How many people do you know fit the description 'average human'? I do my best to avoid the company of such people.

[Boci]

Anyone here want to grow up to be 'average'? 10-11 is the human average for stats. How many people do you know fit the description 'average human'? I do my best to avoid the company of such people.

How does that statistic go: 75% of people think they have more common sense than the average person?

[OverdrivePrime]

Well aware of it. The other one I like is "87% of people make up statistics on the spot" :smallwink:

[Derjuin]

You named the thread wrong. I think there was a unanimous board decision some time ago that required these threads to be called "Overestimate Yourself!"

Indeed :smallamused:


Anyone here want to grow up to be 'average'? 10-11 is the human average for stats. How many people do you know fit the description 'average human'? I do my best to avoid the company of such people.

The problem with at least three of the stats (Wis, Int, Cha) is that there's currently no method of measuring any of them. You can only eyeball them, and you have to compare yourself to a score of 10, because we don't have any other intelligent real-life beings to compare ourselves to except animals, which have an int of 1 or 2. An IQ test won't tell you anything about your Int score, because Intelligence is more than just IQ.

I think I ended up statting myself up as something like:

Monk 1/Expert 1
Str: 9
Dex: 10
Con: 8
Int: 12
Wis: 9
Cha: 6

Strength is a figure you can actually find out about yourself - the carrying capacity tables are pretty accurate if you can define for yourself what a light, medium and heavy load is.

I'm pretty average on dexterity. Fingers are kinda nimble and some of my reflexes are good, others are bad.

Constitution: I get sick a lot. So, eyeballed at 8.

Intelligence: Everyone overrates themselves on this, so I did too. I'm not brilliant, if that's even the meaning of D&D's "intelligence". I'm pretty quick to pick things up, usually, and like to learn about a lot of different things, hence a positive modifier for extra skills (1!). It might even be 13, who knows!

Wisdom: I make a lot of bad decisions, though they're not life-shatteringly bad.

Charisma: Abysmal; I have a hard time interacting with others and my force of personality when interacting face-to-face or with people I don't know is relatively negligible.

Overall I feel like I'm rating my Strength too high, because I probably didn't do the math correctly.

My skills would have ranks thrown all over the place in knowledge, profession and the various Cha skills (yeah, those points are workin' hard at bringing my rolls above a penalty!). Feat would probably be Smatterings or whatever that feat in Races of Destiny is that lets you learn tiny bits of other languages. I think I've done that now for French, Spanish, Japanese and Italian (where's Common when you need it).

[Boci]

Well aware of it. The other one I like is "87% of people make up statistics on the spot" :smallwink:

I do wish people would stop treating that as a magic talisman that makes statistics that work against their argument. Illusory superiority is well documented aspect of human phycology. You can claim you are above average. Maybe you, but most likely you are not, or at least certainly not by the margin you claim to be.

[Ajadea]

Expert 1

Str 11
Dex 10
Con 11
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 11

With presumably a few ranks in Knowledge (random bits of funny trivia), Knowledge (mathematics), Knowledge (D&D 3.5), Computer Programming (Arduino), a rank in Computer Programming (Java), Craft (drawing), and Autohypnosis.

Given that I'm doing calc at my age, I think the 18 is pretty justified...

[The Anarresti]

"Average Human" isn't a pejorative term. Most people are average in some way, but almost no one is average in all ways.
My guess (of course, I overestimate myself)
Human
STR- 10 (Nothing to indicate that I am anything but average)
CON- 12 (I am an endurance athlete, running 5 and 10ks, and swimming 1,000meters competitively)
DEX- 9 (Rather clumsy)
INT- 14 (I get very high scores on standardized tests, read fast, reason well, am articulate... however, I'm no genius)
WIS- 8 (I am disorganized, ADHD, and often fail my will saves against things such as depression or temptations)
CHA-12 (I am naturally very good at dealing with small children, as well as being an actor, writer, storyteller and painter, but not an exceptionally good one)

Expert, level one
Class skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge(history), Knowledge(nature, aka science), Knowledge (nobility and royalty, aka politics and current events) Perform, Swim
Skill points per level: 6+Int modifier (x4 at first level)
Ranks:
Concentration: 4
Craft (basic mechanics): 4
Decipher Script: 4
Heal: 2
Diplomacy: 2
Knowledge (History): 4
Knowledge (Science): 4
Knowledge (Politics): 4
Perform (acting): 4
Swim: 4

Feats: Endurance, Athletic
Stat block:

Jake
Human, 1st-Level Expert
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 1d6+1 (7 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 9 (-1 Dex. Touch: 9, Flat Footed: 9)
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+0
Attack: Quarterstaff +0 melee (1d6/20) or dagger ranged or melee (1d4/ 19-20, 10ft)
Full Attack: Quarterstaff +0 melee (1d6/20) or 2 Quarterstaff -4/-8 melee (1d6/20) or dagger +0 ranged or melee (1d4/19-20, 10ft)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: None
Saves: Fort +1, Ref -1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 9, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12
Skills: Concentration +5, Craft (basic mechanics) +6, Climb +2, Decipher Script +6, Heal +1, Knowledge (History) +6, Knowledge (Science) +6, Knowledge (Politics) +6, Perform (acting) +5, Swim +6,
Feats: Endurance, Athletic,
Environment: Temperate Forests, Urban
Organization: Solitary, Posse (1+1d3 human 1st level expert) or School (1 + 400 1st level experts (students), + 1d4 level 2 dormmasters, +8d2 level 3 teachers/building and grounds crew, +4d2 level 4 masters, +1d3 level 5 senior masters, +1d6 level 1 warrior security guards)
Challenge Rating: 1/3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Lawful Good
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +0

Before you stands a redheaded, pale-skinned teenage human wearing a plaid flannel and jeans of about average height. He holds a walking stick lightly in his hands, and you can just make out the lump of a knife in his left pocket. He's quite fit, but skinny, without bulging muscles, and he smiles at you around the wooden pipe in his mouth.

Jake tends to be very chatty, hyperactive and gregarious, and has an annoying habit of saying whatever is on his mind without filters. However, he follows a strict code of honor, more-or-less all the time, which lends a rigidity beneath his wishy-washy exterior.
Jake is terribly unoptimized for combat. You PCs may encounter him as a student in a University, or as a local in a village. He'd be happy to serve as a guide in exchange for stories about your PCs adventures, and will go out of his way for a noble cause. He also is a history nut, so the opportunity to explore some abandoned crypt or historic site may be too good to pass up, as long as he isn't asked to disarm traps or take point in the fighting. He is unlikely to risk his life on your PCs' behalf unless he is actively saving someone else, though, and if he suspects anything underhand about your PC's intentions, he will refuse to aid you in "indulgent grave-robbing."


I think that this is as accurate as I can make it. My personal description is of me in what I would describe as my natural habitat, on vacation in Maine, but the "school" organization is me at boarding school. I could give a full in-depth review of this, and how it reflects my life. For example, Craft (basic mechanics) reflects my passion for bicycles, and the two ranks in heal show the fact that I'm a certified lifeguard (I'd consider a EMT one with 4 ranks, a nurse with 5, a nurse practitioner with 6, a doctor with 7, and a highly experienced doctor with 8). I'm a better climber than average, even though I'm untrained and my strength is average, plus I swim well (on a competive swim team, although compared to the best of the best I am not that great, compared to your average person my age I am a very good swimmer.) and and lift weights regularly, so Athletic is one feat, and Endurance just shows again my distance athlete abilities, and the fact that I'm a health nut.

All-in-all, I think I'm pretty unoptimized. I'd make a terrible adventurer. I give you permission to use me as an NPC in any campaign you are running, although I'd like to hear about it if you do. I'd get a kick out of it :smallbiggrin:.
A friend of mine who was on my swim team last year just qualified for the Olympic trials, (meaning that he's competing against the likes of Michael Phelps for a spot on the 2012 US Olympic Team) so I'd rate his STR at, say 16 (I don't know his weight limits, but they are large), plus he has feats athletic and skill focus(swim), full ranks in it, so his total modifier would be +12, if I calculate that correctly. Does that sound about right for a guy going to Olympic trials?

[Gandolfi Feesh]

CG Human Male Trickster
6' 1" , 145lbs

STR 12
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 11
WIS 14
CHA 16

[Eldan]

Chaotic Good-ish Human Expert 2

STR 8 (Certainly. Perhaps even lower)
DEX 7 (I've been awake for four hours, and ran into three things already. I also dropped my fork twice durinng breakfast, kicked over my chair while standing up and dropped my cutlery again while washing it).
CON 6 (I'd bet that I'm at least one standard deviation below average here. Probably more).
INT 14 (should be justified. The average is 100-110, I score usually between 135 and 145 on IQ tests)
WIS 11 (I'd call myself average here)
CHA 11 (apparently, I'm a nice and friendly person, despite being very, very shy)

Skill points mostly spread out over various knowledges, with a skill focus feat in Nature.

[OverdrivePrime]

I do wish people would stop treating that as a magic talisman that makes statistics that work against their argument. Illusory superiority is well documented aspect of human phycology. You can claim you are above average. Maybe you, but most likely you are not, or at least certainly not by the margin you claim to be.

You're welcome to your beliefs. I'm pretty well versed in statistics and psychology, and yes I'm aware that I'm definitely not immune to magical self-perception. I do have to say that I'm pretty amused by how much energy some people put into trying to tear down other people's stat claims.

Anyway, if you'd like me to attempt to justify, here goes:

Strength: I am a tall, powerfully built male who has dedicated a lot of time and effort over the last 20 years into making my body as strong, enduring and capable as I can. I max out at about 310 pounds on bench press, comfortably squat 3x50 sets of 450 pounds and can lift considerably more off the ground. I feel this easily justifies a 16 in the most measurable stat in the game.

Dexterity: It's probably more than 8, probably less than 12. Hard to measure, because so many skills modify raw dexterity.

Constitution: similar to strength, I train this one constantly. I can take a very strong hit from someone my size and shrug it off. I bike, run and hike very long distances, regularly. I don't get sick more than once a year, and I'm over it in a day.

Intelligence: I test well, and very quickly pick up new ideas and then turn around and teach them to my team. I've taken legitimate IQ tests in college and have performed very high, but I understand that most people don't go for the 'divide IQ by 10' idea for Intelligence. Let's say I overestimated and call it a 12.

Wisdom: I process ideas and things going on around me very well, but my willpower is terrible. Probably more than 8, probably less than 12.

Charisma: I'm quickly pulled toward leadership positions in most organizations and groups I enter. I make friends easily and have a very intuitive understanding of other people's motivations and needs. Let's say I over estimated myself and call it a 12.

[Retech]

Expert 1
Given that I'm doing calc at my age, I think the 18 is pretty justified...

Calc is hardly a measure of intelligence or success. In my group of friends, we have (or are) taken (taking) calculus at minimum, three years early, but we don't use that as a measure of comparison.

That's because taking a first year college class is not designed as a metric of success. 18 intelligence doesn't just mean you're smart; it means that you're crushing basically everyone that you know or will meet in terms of intelligence. Competitions are directly designed a metric of intelligence.

Try taking a national math competition. If you're in the top 1%, perhaps intelligence could be a 14. The winner of that competition might earn the right to be an 18 (although even then, not so sure about that). I call this a good method because there will be people that spend over six hours a day studying for those and likely, most people not doing that will be crushed. On the other hand, there are plenty of random people that do it and fail miserably, and you will probably be higher than them. The math competitions really make it clear that only the rare few are anything higher than a 14.

At most, going to school and doing well, maybe taking calc at whatever age you are, makes you an expert and gives you the skill points that entails (compared to commoner).

[Boci]

You're welcome to your beliefs.

And you're welcome to your beliefs. I was just pointing out that by saying you do your best to avoid average people you were not coming off as a particularly nice or believable person.

[The Anarresti]

Put it like this: In terms of stats, a person with a Dexterity of 18 or better is probably competing for the Olympics in gymnastics, with an Intelligence of 18 or better they're in the running for a Nobel prize, and a Wisdom of 18 or better they're sitting on a Himalayan mountain using Autohypnosis to ignore the snow.
@Eldan: Thank you for qualifying your guesses at your stats. I'd venture to say that, unless you're competitive at a National level in a relevant field, the vast majority of people don't have any score above 15. Your "average" exceptional person probably has a 14 or 15 in whatever it is they are good at. Take a gander at the elite array of stats in the DMG: it even doesn't go above 15.

[Cipher Stars]

Str: 9
Dex: 10
Con: 10
Int: 11
Wis: 12
Cha: 11

[Madcrafter]

You could potentially allow some more lenience in how the stats are designed. Just because 10 is average, doesn't mean your deviation has to be less than 4. I read an article or something once that used the strength tables in the PH, as some have done above, to find the strength of various championship weightlifters. That table is not the best tool in the world, but it is reasonable enough, considering none of the other stats have such a thing, and have to be eyeballed. The world record holder capped out at a strength score of 26, based on lifting power. If you use this scale, Olympians would probably be above ~20ish, and I don't see a problem with an exceptional portion of the population having scores up to 18.

[Altaria87]

Using the following standard to determine stats that our group uses:
4 = So bad that its literally a disability. 4 Charisma would be almost lacking the ability to speak to people. 4 Constitution being incredibly prone to disease and having the stamina of a severe asthma sufferer.
6 = Noticably below average, doesn't need much explanation.
8 = Below average, but not cripplingly, or even very noticably, so. 8 Intelligence is the guy who's a bit slow to get things, tends to forget easily and is generally a little less 'smarter' than the rest of his social group.
10 = Average, obviously. (Actually, we tend to say 11 is average, but seeing as there's no mechanical difference).
12 = Above average, but not that obvious or exceptional.
14 = Noticably above average. As one poster here said, 14 Strength is that friend you call when you need to mvoe that heavy cupboard in your lving room.
16 = Far above average, entering the 'exceptional' realm. 16 Constitution is the County Champion endurance runner and 16 Dexterity is a really good gymnast or acrobat.
18 = World Class. As The Anarresti put it, 18 Intelligence is a Nobel Prize nominee or Science, 18 Wisdom is the Dahlai Lama or something, 18 Strength is a champion weightlifter.
20 = Literally, or at least for-all-intents-and-purposes superhuman. 20 Wisdom is the Buddha, 20 Strength is Heracles and (this one a bit jokingly) 20 Charisma is Tony Blair.

While some people may disagree with this assessment, I see this as fairly reasonable.
I would put myself as:
Strength 13: As shown in my example, I am the guy my freinds call when they need something heavy moved and do weight training often, but I definitely know quite a few people stronger than me.
Desterity 8: My fine motor skills are quite poor, but otherwise I'm completely average in this respect.
Consitution 8: My stamina is below average but, again, nothing else different from the average person.
Intelligence 16: My IQ is high enough to be part of Mensa, I scored highest in the district (approx. 10 schools) in GCSEs but I'm obviously not world-class (I personally use my sister as the Intelligence 18 basline - a Professor of Particle Physics who worked as a supervisor on the LHC).
Wisdom 5: I have Asperger's Syndrome (no insight into other people), very little common sense. And (as the perception skills are part of Wisdom I'm counting this as a detriment) no sense of smell, terrible sight and bad hearing.
Charisma 11: I'm shy but have spent years in public speaking and debating circles and have decent leadership abilities.
As for class and skills, depending on how you interpret a 2nd Dan in Taekwondo and training in a semi-martial art used by at least one police force, either Monk 1 or Commoner/Expert 1 with Improved Unarmed Strike.
Skills being Knowledge (Random Geek Culture), Knowledge (Politics), Knowledge (Religion and Philosophy), Knowledge (Medieval History), Knowledge (British History), Perform (oratory) (or Diplomacy, not sure how you'd interpret Debating) and 1 rank in both Ride and Iajutsu Focus due to having a basic undertanding of how to ride a horse and Iaido (which I still can't spell without it looking wrong).

[Geigan]

str: 11
dex: 10
con: 12
int: 12
wis: 10
cha: 10

I'm pretty meh, though I don't think I'm below average anywhere. I think I have a good reflex save though and can get adrenaline rushes that make me really active every now and then so maybe a barb/rogue.

[Madcrafter]

Using the same idea posted above (which is like the scale Altaria has, but expanded out by 2-3; after all, Buddha was a real dude (and there have been several), Hercules was probably based on a real dude, and I guess I have to be more British to get the Tony Blair joke).

Str 11: Average Strength, nothing special.
Dex 13: Very slightly above average reflexes, coordination etc.
Con 9: used to be up at 16ish when I was younger, deteriorated fast after about age 14. Don't have nearly the endurance I used to, and physically susceptible to stress, but can still take a few hits.
Int 17: Exceptional, but not extraordinarily so.
Wis 9: A little worse than average.
Cha 10: Wasn't really sure with this one. Don't really have much in the way of social ability at all outside of areas of my expertise, but I can get people to do most anything I want by asking them. Maybe I'm just a diplomancer with low cha, or a high cha person with a flaw lowering interaction skills.

As for levels, Thuggish Fighter Variant 1/Expert 1.
Rough Skills: Bluff 4, Diplomacy (maybe), Heal 2, Hide 1, Know(Arch&Engineering) 5, Know(History) 2, Know(Religion) 1, Profession(Engineer) 1, Survival 4, Swim 1, Tumble 1, Use Rope 3.
Feats: Weapon Finesse, maybe Power attack, can't really think of any others off the top of my head (thats what I get for always playing casters, no real world feat knowledge)

[Xtomjames]

Xtom James
Human
Male
5'11" weight 190lbs
speed 40 (I walk faster than the average human and have actually calculated my normal speed into D&D terms here)
Age 25
Classes Gestalt: Monk 10/ Bard 10/ Swashbuckler 10 /Rogue 10/Samurai 10
Attributes
Str: 15
Dex: 17
Con: 17
Int: 23
Wis: 16
Cha: 15
PA: 14

Profession: Writer/Chef/Singer/Jack of All Trades
Bonus Feats: Educated, Endurance, Sword Trained, Pole Trained (Resistances: heat 5, cold 5, sonic 5)

Craft: Master craftsmen: blacksmithing and woodworking
General Feats: Weapon Finesse, (Greater and Improved) Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity, Mobility, Evasion, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

Class Features: Flurry of Blows, Arrow Snatching (I've done this in real life...), sneak attack, Martial Arts trained (Shaolin style Crane and Tiger kung fu to be specific).

Flaws: Near Sighted, Insomniac, Argumenative

Languages: English (Old, Middle, Mid-Modern, Modern), Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Italian.

Armor: Tungsten Titanium Modified Gusoku (AC +11, max Dex 6, ACP -3)
Weapons: Keen Tungsten Titanium: Wakasahi and Katana
Katana: 1d8+5 crit x2 15-20 (hardness of 40, hit points 50)
Wakasazhi: 1d6+2 crit x2 15-20 (hardness of 40, hit points of 40)


(Explaining what I've put here. I've trained in Kung Fu, Jujitsu, and Kenjutsu for many years, along with fencing, bo-staff, spear, etc. I've also trained in full armor and own and make my own armor and weapons. I'm also a trained singer and I play the flute. I'm a real Jack of All Trades, anything and everything I've ever tried I've succeeded at (some taking longer than others to reach that success mind you). And while it may seem on here that I'm contradictory at times or I don't know what I'm talking about with D&D at times, I've played the game in all it's versions and sometimes get the rules mixed up between versions.)

[SowZ]

Some poeple didn't read that the most of humans have all stats around 10-11. I'd allow max a 13.

Why? 9-11 Would be average in something.
12-13 Would be competent/above average.
14-15 Would be very good.
16-17 Would be hyper competent.
18 would be genius level.

For me, I hate odd stats. Initially, I had an Int of 15 and a Cha of 13 which would probably be more accurate but I just couldn't stand the odd numberdness, hehe.

[Zale]

Human Expert

Strength- 8
Dexterity- 11
Constitution- 10
Intelligence- 14
Wisdom- 12
Charisma- 12

Bluff- 2
Diplomacy- 3
Knowledge (Arcana)- 4
Knowledge (History)- 3
Knowledge (Religion)- 3
Knowledge (Academics)- 4
Knowledge (Psionics)- 3
Sense Motive- 4
Concentration- 3
Craft (Pointless Argument)- 3
Move Silently- 2



Methinks some people love to overestimate themselves.

[Darthteej]

Neutral Good Human
35th Level Psion

Str:18
Con:20
Dex:18
Int:60
Wis:40
Cha:20

Skills:
Max ranks in everything

[SowZ]

As much as it pains me to make, like, every stat I have odd numbered, I revised my sheet slightly for the sake of better accuracy. *Sigh*

Where is an SRD that explains what each number means for each stat that doesn't involve mechanics, btw? Played this game since highschool and I think I've always just eyeballed it. This is my understanding-
9-11 Would be average in something.
12-13 Would be competent/above average.
14-15 Would be very good.
16-17 Would be hyper competent.
18 would be genius level.

[Knaight]

Human Commoner 1
Str: 9
Dex: 6
Con: 8
Int: 8
Wis: 6
Cha: 4

Skills: Knowledge (lots at 1 rank), Bluff
Feats: Weapon Focus Short Spear, Weapon Focus Sling

[137beth]

{Scrubbed}

[SowZ]

I expected people to 'overestimate' by virtue of having 22-28 Point Buy. Your stats are going to be over-average with such a Point Buy. When I said 'This is about how you translate mechanically.' I kind of meant, 'how would you translate into an adventurer statted D&D world,' (obviously, I am not really a Telepath!) in which case you will naturally be better. I should have clarified that...

[Zale]

You mean, what would I be if I was an adventurer?

A wizard or something.

[Kurald Galain]

Ah, here we go again.

Do you define "int 18" as

The top 1/216th of all humans (i.e. what you get if you roll 3d6 on stats)
Anyone who's 20% better than average at mental tasks (i.e. a +4 on his skill checks)
Reserved for the likes of Einstein and Newton only


The same thing applies to all other stats, of course, but for some reason people are most bothered by int. Under the first two definitions I gave, forum users are quite justified to list themselves as e.g. "int 17".

[Altaria87]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Honestly, that's just pretty rude. There's a difference between translating yourself into DnD stats based on how you interpret the stats and that sort of exagerration. Just because RAW says that all NPC humans are completely average in every way doesn't mean this thread is pointless.

This is one of my biggest problems with DnD. An average Commoner doesn't have a 10 or 11 in all stats, or even the nonelite array. People all have their strengths and weaknesses, almost everyone should have at least a 14 or 15 somehwere. Even then, msot people won't fit in the Elite Array. RAW might not recognise NPCs as real people, but that's for rpacticality's sake, they're not the PCs, so they won't be in focus. However, people in this thread clearly are real people and aren't stuck being told they have at most a 13 in everything and if not they're overestimating themselves (!). Because unless you subscribe so much to RAW you think that in DnD a 15 is the peak of normal human acheivement - they're not.

[SowZ]

Ah, here we go again.

Do you define "int 18" as

The top 1/216th of all humans (i.e. what you get if you roll 3d6 on stats)
Anyone who's 20% better than average at mental tasks (i.e. a +4 on his skill checks)
Reserved for the likes of Einstein and Newton only


The same thing applies to all other stats, of course, but for some reason people are most bothered by int. Under the first two definitions I gave, forum users are quite justified to list themselves as e.g. "int 17".

Hmm. Alright. What would an Int of 14, mean? 15? 16?

[Ekul]

Lawful Good Strongheart Halfling Artificer
(not including levels though)
STR: 1 (Literally calculated using carrying capacity for a small sized creature. I get exhausted walking from one end of the gymnasium to the other.)
DEX: 12 (Mere speculation)
CON: 6 (Mere speculation, based on my restrictive lung disorder and poor immune system.)
INT: 21 (going by the theory that Int = (IQ – 100) / 16 * 2.95 + 10.5.)

OR:

INT: ~16 (Going by the theory that Int = IQ /10. )
WIS: 15 (I likely get a few bonuses to Sense motive, I'm pretty observant)
CHA: 14 (I'm very good at calming people down, but I don't have a lot of friends.)

Flaws: Hard of hearing (-6 to listen), Myopic (-2 to spot checks) Severe skeletal condition (See stats, also land speed is 5')

You can treat this as an exaggeration, since I am just a person over the internet. I actually believe this is true though.
I was born with several diseases. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I am SUPER min maxed.

[SowZ]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Dude, it is supposed to just be fun. Like, if you were translated as a D&D adventurer right now what would you be?

[Volos]

I am most easily described as a Pathfinder Bard. I enjoy telling grand tales and writing poetry for my beloved. My favorite form of storytelling is being a Dungeon Master / Game Master for 3.5 or Pathfinder games. In this sense being a Bard is kinda meta, but I am extremely charismatic and never have trouble making friends or getting along with people. I am smarter than the average fellow but I am no super genius. And I have good common sense along with being fairly flexible and dexterous when the need arises... though both my common sense and dexterity have failed me on occasion. I am no weaker or no less healthy than the average man.

Human Bard (Animal Speaker: Wolves) 5

Str - 10
Dex - 12
Con - 10
Int - 14
Wis - 12
Cha - 20

Feats - Antagonize, Extra Performance, Persuasive, Spellsong

[Eldan]

@Eldan: Thank you for qualifying your guesses at your stats. I'd venture to say that, unless you're competitive at a National level in a relevant field, the vast majority of people don't have any score above 15. Your "average" exceptional person probably has a 14 or 15 in whatever it is they are good at. Take a gander at the elite array of stats in the DMG: it even doesn't go above 15.

I'd say that's a bit overestimated, really. Rolling 3d6, which is more or less the standard that evens out to 10s and 11s in every stat, one person in 216 has an 18 intelligence. Given that the average person will get to know (really know. More than just see or be introduced to once) around 200 to 500 people in their lives, most people probably know someone with an 18 intelligence.

[Kurald Galain]

Hmm. Alright. What would an Int of 14, mean? 15? 16?
In my personal opinion, any serious university student would easily have an int of 14+, and any PhD student or MENSA member would have 17+. However, in a thread like this, even suggesting that you might have an int higher than 11 will likely get you flamed.

It's quite silly, actually. If you pick mr. Joe Average from the streets and have him play chess against me, then I will win significantly more than 50% or 55% of the time; and I'm not particularly trained in chess. Assuming Joe Average has the average int of 10, that should prove that my int is surely higher than 12.

[Zale]

Human Expert 1/Wizard 3

Strength- 8
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 9
Intelligence- 16
Wisdom- 12
Charisma- 11

Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Skill Focus: Craft, Extend Spell, Metamagic Spell Trigger


I would not be an adventurer. I would be in a tower some where, chilling and researching magical secrets. :smallsmile:

[Kurald Galain]

So anyway.

Kurald Galain - Human Expert 7 (easily - I need a lot of skill points).

Strength - 8
Dexterity - 10
Constitution - 13
Intelligence - 17
Wisdom - 7
Charisma - 12

Dexterity is a score that doesn't really work for me: I am mediocre at any ball sports, but pretty good at any sport related to balance (e.g. surfing or skiing).

And as usual, I much prefer statting myself in World of Darkness terms; it's much less controversial and also gives more accurate readings.

[SowZ]

In my personal opinion, any serious university student would easily have an int of 14+, and any PhD student or MENSA member would have 17+. However, in a thread like this, even suggesting that you might have an int higher than 11 will likely get you flamed.

It's quite silly, actually. If you pick mr. Joe Average from the streets and have him play chess against me, then I will win significantly more than 50% or 55% of the time; and I'm not particularly trained in chess. Assuming Joe Average has the average int of 10, that should prove that my int is surely higher than 12.

Plus, this is who we are in 3.5 adventurer terms. Even though the point is to reasonably aim for your real stats, your power will probably get a bit of a boost.

[Drelua]

Realistically: Human Expert 1
Strength 10 (I'm not weak, but I'm not strong either)
Dexterity 15 (ish. I catch things all the time without knowing how I did it, and I'm very flexible. my face is resting quite comfortably on my knee as I type this.)
Constitution 10 (I very rarely get sick, I'm not frail and I could walk all day, but I can't run for more than a couple minutes, and I have sleep problems)
Intelligence 17-18 (depending on the scale. If we're using the 1/216 system, I have tested genius, and frequently wonder how people could not understand something, I get As on tests without any studying, and on projects I wrote in an hour or two)
Wisdom 16 (I can't take much of a beating, but I've stubbed my toe so hard it was bleeding and just closed my eyes, focused on the pain, and destroyed it (for lack of a better term), I've never been the least bit tempted by drugs or alcohol, which is difficult for an 18-year-old in high school, etc.)
Charisma 10-12 (I very rarely talk to people, but that's more because I don't want to than for any lack of ability to do so, I can be very eloquent and I'm a great liar and I make people laugh a lot)

Using the PF skill system I'd have a rank in craft (woodworking), acrobatics (I jump around too much for 18), stealth, a few knowledges thanks to school, including nature, and bluff and sense motive.

If I was a DnD character, I want to say ranger, but that's more from personality and beliefs, so more likely rogue that likes nature with the same stats and some of the roguish skills, though I might already have disable device, but not as a class skill.

This may seem high, (let's see, it's close to a 30 point buy in 3.5, depending on the scores I wasn't so sure about), so high end of the OP's parameters, but I just looked at each stat individually. If I did change it to 28pb, I'd drop constitution or charisma, maybe enough to even out my dexterity to a 16. Of course, I won't deny for a second that I could be over-estimating myself.

@Kurald Galain, I don't see how education factors in to intelligence. There have been people in my classes that get 90s in everything that frequently show I'm smarter than them. I could get higher marks if I studied at all, whereas they study constantly, and I get 80s if I do all the work. I'm a genius according to tests, and I have no interest in post-secondary education.

[Ekul]

People interpret the stat system differently.

I honestly think gluing everyone to the center is boring. What's the point of having a system if it's going to be static? Why have "10" if it never goes down to 5?

I'm fairly certain I'm not average, especially when you actually take a look at the real average. I'm not judging, people just have different interests. Mine is in my intelligence, other people care about creativity, about getting the newest thing, about social status.

People are much, MUCH stronger than me. When I was a kid, I was too weak to turn doorknobs.
People are about as dextrous as me.
People are more healthy and fit than me.
Most people don't care about intelligence like I do. Both my parents are college professors. They've been teaching me since I was a kid. I got a fully paid scholarship to the best college I applied. Of course, I have no real evidence without revealing personal information, so I guess that doesn't convince anyone in this thread. [I won't claim anything stupid like I'm smarter than my professors though- those guys are crazy smart.]
Most people aren't that observant, and I matured fairly quickly (I enjoy research, although I do screw up a lot. Maybe it should be lower.)
Most people don't think about what they're saying and upset people a lot. I watch what I say carefully, and try to empathize. I've always been better than most people at manipulating people in power. (Not better than my brother though- that guy is superhuman.)

Go ahead and disagree. Change my stats to 6,10,8,14,12,10 if you want but what's the point of this thread then?

[Kurald Galain]

R
@Kurald Galain, I don't see how education factors in to intelligence.

Having successfully completed a certain level of education does suggest a certain level of intelligence. The reverse is not true, of course.

[Crossblade]

Pretty straight forward. Shoot for your actual skills and knowledge base.

I would stat myself as a Human Psion 1
Telepath


Wait, what? Huh?

[Drelua]

Having successfully completed a certain level of education does suggest a certain level of intelligence. The reverse is not true, of course.

I suppose stupid people are less likely to get a university degree, but as long as you're not saying that it's a sign of a low intellect to stop with formal education at high school, that makes some sense.

[SowZ]

Wait, what? Huh?

Sorry, when I said shoot for your actual skills and knowledge base I meant how it would translate into D&D adventurer terms. So, for example, your stats may get a little better and some skills may become a bit more supernatural. I picked Psion because of a strong interest/training in things like Lucid Dreaming/Meditation/Other-Hippie-New-Agey-Crap that I don't have any strong reason to believe is more than 'all in my head' in RL, but if I was in a D&D world those skills would probably be more practical and tangible as a Psion.

[Laura Eternata]

Using 22-Point Buy:
Str-8
Dex-10
Con-6 (With 28 Point Buy, this is an 8. Not out of accuracy, but because I had two points left over and didn't know where to put them.)
Int-15 (With 28 Point Buy, this is a 16.)
Wis-16
Cha-12 (I'm not sure about this. I'm normally extremely shy, but I have a powerful stage presence, and when I do have to get assertive, I really get assertive. Such occasions are rare, though. If I was using 28 Point Buy, I'd raise this to 14.)

I haven't really had many experiences, so I'm probably still level 1. I'm definitely a bard (I'm a stage actress), and my skills would be: Diplomacy 4+1=4, Bluff 2+1=3, Perform (act) 4+1=5, Knowledge (History) 4+2=6, Move Silently 1, Hide 1, Use Magic Device 4+1=5, Perform (Dance) 4+1=5, Perform (Sing) 4+1=5, Spellcraft 2+2=4, Heal 2+3=5, Sense Motive 2+3=5, and Knowledge (Local) 2+2=4.

I DEFINITELY have the Innatentive flaw.

Featwise, I'd say I have Skill Focus: Perform (Act), Able Learner, and Weapon Proficiency: Scimitar.

My spells are Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument, and Light.

As for weapons... well, I've got a civil war era saber in my attic, which KINDA looks like a scimitar (it was 10 bucks. YOU'D HAVE BOUGHT IT TOO) So my attack bonus with that, coupled with a laundry hamper cover wicker shield, that's a -1 to hit, 1d6-1 damage (18-20/x2.) Lovely.

I've an AC of, like, 11. I have an incomplete chain shirt downstairs, but I don't think that really counts for much.

I've got 4 HP (5 with 28 Point Buy.)

Saves are 2 Ref, -2 (-1) Fort, +5 Will.

For future levels, I might dip into wizard, 'cause, y'know, magic. The crappy constitution hurts, but a talking cat is very much worth it.

(For the record, my inner-optimizer is in tears right now. This topic's really given her a much darker perspective on life as a whole.)

[Delcor]

Being completely realistic:

Neutral Good
Commoner 1

S: 9
D: 13
C: 10
I: 11
W: 12
C: 12

But I'd like to think of myself as a cleric or monk :smallbiggrin:

[ranagrande]

Neutral Good Human
Ex-Monk 1/Bard 2/Cloistered Cleric 1

Strength: 14
Dexterity: 9
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 15
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 10

I think that's pretty accurate.

[137beth]

Hmm. Alright. What would an Int of 14, mean? 15? 16?

So....
If we assume that ability scores are a normal distribution, and the human average is 10.5, we still need to know the standard deviation. Using the nonelite array, the SD is Sqrt[7/2], so the chance of any given ability score being 13.5 or higher (and therefore rounding up to 14+) is about 5.44%. So most of us probably know someone with a 14 or higher in something. The chance of getting a 17.5+ is about 1 in 11000. It's not unheard of, but it is very rare.

On the other hand, if we assume most people are closer to the {11,11,11,10,10,10} array, then...
The chance of getting a 13.5 or higher is roughly 1 in 4.63*10^7. Of the 7 billion living humans, we have 42 billion ability scores. We can expect that about 907 people in the world have a 13.5 in ANY ability score. We would also expect that probably no one has a 15 or higher in anything.

Now, if we could agree on what the standard deviation of ability scores "should" be, we could settle this:smallsmile:

[Kurald Galain]

Now, if we could agree on what the standard deviation of ability scores "should" be, we could settle this:smallsmile:

The thing about your second method is that it suggests that the smartest people in the world are only 5% better at mental tasks than the average human (apart from those 907 people worldwide who might be 10% better). I don't think that's a teneble position.

[SowZ]

So....
If we assume that ability scores are a normal distribution, and the human average is 10.5, we still need to know the standard deviation. Using the nonelite array, the SD is Sqrt[7/2], so the chance of any given ability score being 13.5 or higher (and therefore rounding up to 14+) is about 5.44%. So most of us probably know someone with a 14 or higher in something. The chance of getting a 17.5+ is about 1 in 11000. It's not unheard of, but it is very rare.

On the other hand, if we assume most people are closer to the {11,11,11,10,10,10} array, then...
The chance of getting a 13.5 or higher is roughly 1 in 4.63*10^7. Of the 7 billion living humans, we have 42 billion ability scores. We can expect that about 907 people in the world have a 13.5 in ANY ability score. We would also expect that probably no one has a 15 or higher in anything.

Now, if we could agree on what the standard deviation of ability scores "should" be, we could settle this:smallsmile:

Ehhh, I don't think it works that way. If the average of any given stat is 10 that does not mean most people are close to a 10 in everything. It just means most people aren't above average at that thing and most people are around a 10 in most things but that does not preclude them being above average at one or two things. Most people would probably have an 8 or so in at least one stat and a 13 or 14 in another. Any given person having mostly 9-11s but a couple stats in the 13-15 range wouldn't be too uncommon, either.

Saying most people are equally good at everything they do is unrealistic, even after factoring in Skill Points. Most people aren't average at everything. They are probably average. (10-11) in most things with a couple things they are not good at, (8-9,) and one or a couple things they excell at, (12-14.)

Using this estimation, I would guess myself as 9 in Strength and Wisdom, 9-10in Con, 12 in Dex, 11 in Cha, and 15 Int. If you have a stat system where people only vary one or two points in either direction using 3.5 stats is silly. Why not pick a system where humans range from 1-6 or 1-8, in that case?

[Optimator]

Real life translates awfully into D&D stats. It's a useless endeavor and rarely worth doing. That said...

STR: 9 (12 Lower body, 8 upper) Fast runner and I bike with some frequency, but I don't work out.
DEX: 16 I have fantastic reflexes, hand-eye coordination, agility, and balance.
CON: 11 Good immune system, very little endurance. Poor diet, too.
INT: 16 I'm very smart. Highest percentile in all standardized tests through school. Bad grades though. So my innate brain hardware is phenomenal. I imagine if I studied harder I'd be "smarter".
WIS: 13 This is a hard one. I have fantastic senses, orientation, and spacial awareness and thinking. I am also very gullible and have a very low "Sense Motive". My instincts are okay, but I second-guess myself a lot (goddamn Int score getting in the way!)
CHA: 13 Another hard one. I have good leadership skills and I'm told I can be very personable (and handsome) but I can also be meek and a push-over and I have moderate social anxiety.

[Kurald Galain]

If the average of any given stat is 10 that does not mean most people are close to a 10 in everything. It just means most people aren't above average at that thing and most people are around a 10 in most things

It doesn't even mean that. If the scores are 18, 18, 18, 2, 2, 2 then the average is still going to be 10, even if nobody actually meets the average. That's why standard deviation is a better measure than average.

Average certainly does not mean "99% of everybody has the average score", nor is there any RAW that suggests that; I'm really not sure where such ideas come from.

[Frozen_Feet]

Some poeple didn't read that the most of humans have all stats around 10-11. I'd allow max a 13.

No.

No, no, no.

Going by the curve created by 3d6 roll, which is the basis of the system, only 25% (http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/3_dice_rolls.htm) of people have 10 or 11 in any single ability. 75% have something entirely else!

Even more, the chances of someone having only 10s and 11s is only ~0,024%

Finally, and most importantly: the ability scores aren't be-all-end-all of a character, and vary from the 3 to 18 range for various reasons.

For example, in D&D, mental abilities rise by age. Applying this to real world would mean that 9,23% of all Venerable people have the vaunted INT 18 or above.

On the other hand, only 4,61% of venerable people would have physical abilities of 10 or above.

And that is still barring effect of classes, feats, skills, flaws, equipment and what not that complicate the system even more.

[ranagrande]

Not to mention, the OP specifies a point buy for ability scores, and even a 22 point buy will have a mean average closer to 12 than to 10.

[SowZ]

Not to mention, the OP specifies a point buy for ability scores, and even a 22 point buy will have a mean average closer to 12 than to 10.

Yeah, this is assuming you are translated into a D&D adventure as closely as possible so you will be higher than the average human.


It doesn't even mean that. If the scores are 18, 18, 18, 2, 2, 2 then the average is still going to be 10, even if nobody actually meets the average. That's why standard deviation is a better measure than average.

Average certainly does not mean "99% of everybody has the average score", nor is there any RAW that suggests that; I'm really not sure where such ideas come from.

Well, I was saying that even allowing his basic premise, people will only have a ten to eleven in most things, not everything. I do not necessarily agree with his basic premise, though.

[Boci]

No.

No, no, no.

Going by the curve created by 3d6 roll, which is the basis of the system, only 25% (http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/3_dice_rolls.htm) of people have 10 or 11 in any single ability. 75% have something entirely else!

Even more, the chances of someone having only 10s and 11s is only ~0,024%

Finally, and most importantly: the ability scores aren't be-all-end-all of a character, and vary from the 3 to 18 range for various reasons.

For example, in D&D, mental abilities rise by age. Applying this to real world would mean that 9,23% of all Venerable people have the vaunted INT 18 or above.

On the other hand, only 4,61% of venerable people would have physical abilities of 10 or above.

And that is still barring effect of classes, feats, skills, flaws, equipment and what not that complicate the system even more.

You're assuming everyone rolls, which makes no sense when you look at the real world as crippled people with 3 strength and muscle men with 18 do not make up over 2% of the population AFAIK.

[Kurald Galain]

You're assuming everyone rolls, which makes no sense when you look at the real world as crippled people with 3 strength and muscle men with 18 do not make up over 2% of the population AFAIK.

What gives you the impression that people with str 3 are "crippled"? I don't think that's in the rulebooks anywhere.

[Drelua]

You're assuming everyone rolls, which makes no sense when you look at the real world as crippled people with 3 strength and muscle men with 18 do not make up over 2% of the population AFAIK.

Not to mention the actual percentages; if everyone rolls 3d6, the chances of a 3 in strength are 6x6x6, or 1 in 216, with the same chances of an 18, which would mean1 in every 108 people are either extremely feeble (not crippled), or outrageously strong (as in lifting 600 pounds over their head. Less than 1%, not over 2%. I'm not saying that's entirely accurate, but not as bad as you made it out to be.

Of course, this means that, statistically, 1 in 18 people have either a 3 or an 18 in one score, which is kind of ridiculous.

[137beth]

Ehhh, I don't think it works that way. If the average of any given stat is 10 that does not mean most people are close to a 10 in everything. It just means most people aren't above average at that thing and most people are around a 10 in most things but that does not preclude them being above average at one or two things. Most people would probably have an 8 or so in at least one stat and a 13 or 14 in another. Any given person having mostly 9-11s but a couple stats in the 13-15 range wouldn't be too uncommon, either.

Saying most people are equally good at everything they do is unrealistic, even after factoring in Skill Points. Most people aren't average at everything. They are probably average. (10-11) in most things with a couple things they are not good at, (8-9,) and one or a couple things they excell at, (12-14.)

Using this estimation, I would guess myself as 9 in Strength and Wisdom, 9-10in Con, 12 in Dex, 11 in Cha, and 15 Int. If you have a stat system where people only vary one or two points in either direction using 3.5 stats is silly. Why not pick a system where humans range from 1-6 or 1-8, in that case?
What part don't you like? I think its pretty clear you also think the SD should be higher than Sqrt[3/10]...
Do you also not like the normal distribution? Is there another distribution you think would work better?
Oh, and by the way, the average stat is 10.5, not 10:smallwink:

Now, if we try a higher SD...let's see, the 3d6 method has an SD of 3*Sqrt[42/43]. Now, the 3d6 method is already fairly close to a normal distribution, but let's see what happens when we look at the "actual" normal dist...
The chance of getting between 7.5 and 12.5 would be roughly 59%, where as if we actually rolled 3d6, our chances of being in the 8-12 range would be about 58%. Based on your previous posts, it seems you'd prefer a high standard deviation, so this could be closer to what you'd like. The chance of getting in the 17.5-18.5 range would be about 1 in 178, quite common. What you seem to be missing is that if we are assigning numbers to non-numerical abilities of real creatures, we are inevitably making a ton of arbitrary decisions. We get to pick what the standard deviation of our arbitrary scale is.

Now, if we decide that the variance should be tiny, then we will just be dealing with the fact that small changes in an ability score translate to enormous changes in actual ability. This means that, to give a reasonably precise measurement, we will be dealing with many, many decimal places in ability scores. I'd rather not have to worry about the difference between a strength of 10.500001 and 10.500007, so I'd prefer a somewhat higher SD.

[Hanuman]

Real knowledge doesn't work well for dnd, as most people can take 10 on swim checks and have a +4 to +10 at level 1.

If you were able to sandbox, sure it'd work better.

Str: Higher than average, I'm messomorphic, enjoy exercise, am nicknamed "he who pulls off feats of giant's strength through power of loyalty and love", am a martial artist and did training to become a military fire fighter.
Dex: Way higher than average, I spent 3 years as a circus performer in fire and weapon dance expressive training, I also had an obsession with balancing things during that time and can balance knives on knife blades (though I'm getting rustier).
Con: I had a back injury recently and my con has gone to ****, I'm getting sessions and am healing nicely so I should recover soon.
Int: I'm a nerd at heart, I grew up with logic and math games, skipped grades and enjoy thinking about difficult problems. I have a highly analytical mind as I was brought up by analysts. I'm studying to be a medic right now so I spend a lot of time on anatomy, physiology, chemistry, physics, kinetics and medicine, I'm learning 5 languages at the moment and keep up with my other hobbies, probably high skillpoints.
Wis: I spent 2 years mentored under a cranial-sacral bodyworker (shaman-esque) on opening up basic perception and listening qualities in body emotion and mind, and am learning to perfect these to near-psychic ability (20 year training schedule). I have done a large amount of blind movement training as well as blind unarmed fighting and blind grappling with a knife.
Cha: I'm a fairly attractive guy, I have a nice body, I'm funny, can socially navigate through most things, I'm a dancer, a musician, but I still at heart feel awkward due to my over-sensitive perception of social situations so when something seems way out of the norm I still hesitate on my resolve, especially if it's the usual 4th dimensional flux of social/emotional dynamic between multiple people, that stuffs weird. I'd give myself an average Cha because of that.

Str+
Dex+
Con-
Int+
Wis+
Cha|

Overall I'd give myself a Neutral Good, and Taoism for religion

[Ajadea]

Calc is hardly a measure of intelligence or success. In my group of friends, we have (or are) taken (taking) calculus at minimum, three years early, but we don't use that as a measure of comparison.

That's because taking a first year college class is not designed as a metric of success. 18 intelligence doesn't just mean you're smart; it means that you're crushing basically everyone that you know or will meet in terms of intelligence. Competitions are directly designed a metric of intelligence.

Try taking a national math competition. If you're in the top 1%, perhaps intelligence could be a 14. The winner of that competition might earn the right to be an 18 (although even then, not so sure about that). I call this a good method because there will be people that spend over six hours a day studying for those and likely, most people not doing that will be crushed. On the other hand, there are plenty of random people that do it and fail miserably, and you will probably be higher than them. The math competitions really make it clear that only the rare few are anything higher than a 14.

At most, going to school and doing well, maybe taking calc at whatever age you are, makes you an expert and gives you the skill points that entails (compared to commoner).

I think we have different definitions of 18. I'm using the probability measure that is, 1 in 216 people have an 18 in one score at 15 years old. That's about 32,129,630 people.

[Retech]

Oh, missed the fact that we were statting out to be adventurers. :smallsmile:

18 is probably right then. (Although who knows, you could be an elf and have 20)

[Das Platyvark]

Str 9
Dex 12
Con 9
Int 14 for non math stuff, 10 for math centric enterprises.
Wis 10
Cha 10

Lvl. 1 Wilder, with some divination-centric power.

[Ekul]

Str 9
Dex 12
Con 9
Int 14 for non math stuff, 10 for math centric enterprises.
Wis 10
Cha 10

Lvl. 1 Wilder, with some divination-centric power.

A wilder with no powers? (According to the rules, you must have at least an 11 in charisma to use powers)

[Boci]

What gives you the impression that people with str 3 are "crippled"? I don't think that's in the rulebooks anywhere.

Crippled may have been an exaggeration, but carrying more than 10 pounds slows you down. Those people are pretty rare, not 1 in 216.


Not to mention the actual percentages; if everyone rolls 3d6, the chances of a 3 in strength are 6x6x6, or 1 in 216, with the same chances of an 18, which would mean1 in every 108 people are either extremely feeble (not crippled), or outrageously strong (as in lifting 600 pounds over their head. Less than 1%, not over 2%. I'm not saying that's entirely accurate, but not as bad as you made it out to be.

Of course, this means that, statistically, 1 in 18 people have either a 3 or an 18 in one score, which is kind of ridiculous.

That was my point, I just messed up on the maths. Doesn't "everybody rolls 3d6" mean that 1 in 1296 people have nat 18s in everything? Again, maybe my maths are off, but my origional point still stands.

[Zonugal]

Like others I am probably a 1st-level expert.

Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 13.

Skills: Bluff +5 (4 ranks +1 cha), Craft (Writing) +3 (2 ranks +1 int), Diplomacy +5 (4 ranks +1 cha), Disguise +5 (4 ranks +1 cha), Hide +4 (4 ranks +0 dex), Knowledge (History) +3 (2 ranks +1 int), Knowledge (Local) +5 (4 ranks +1 int), Perform (Acting) +5 (4 ranks +1 cha), and Spot +7 (4 ranks +0 wis +3 skill focus).

Feats: Skill Focus (Perform: Acting), Skill Focus (Spot) and Silver Tongue (this from a flaw, asthma).

[Ajadea]

As an adventurer?

Ajadea, Human Artificer 1

Str 11
Dex 10
Con 11
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 12 (if I can boost one stat, this'd be the one I'm closest to boosting)

Scribe Scroll (Artificer Bonus)
Extraordinary Artisan (Human Bonus)
Legendary Artisan

Craft (engineering) 4 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, etc...

[137beth]

Crippled may have been an exaggeration, but carrying more than 10 pounds slows you down. Those people are pretty rare, not 1 in 216.



That was my point, I just messed up on the maths. Doesn't "everybody rolls 3d6" mean that 1 in 1296 people have nat 18s in everything? Again, maybe my maths are off, but my origional point still stands.

No, only 1 in 101559956668416 people roll an 18 in everything.

[SowZ]

No, only 1 in 101559956668416 people roll an 18 in everything.

Yeah, that would be 18 6s in a row.

[Hanuman]

No, only 1 in 101559956668416 people roll an 18 in everything.
Guess we can ballpark your int =P

[Gwendol]

Disregarding the point buy...

STR 14-15
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 15
WIS 8
CHA 15

Excellent health and physical condition, have a PhD and work as a scientist, not particularly dexterous or quick, not very perceptive, leader and easy going character.

[Malfunctioned]

So here's me.

Str: 10 (I'm stronger than I look, though being 5'7/8" and very skinny still means that adds up to average.)
Dex: 16/8 (Yup, this one is odd. On one hand I'm extremely flexible and can even perform acts of contortionism. On the other hand I have Dyspraxia which severly limits my hand-eye coordination.)
Con: 14 (I can take a hit suprisingly well and get ill about twice a year, even then it only lasts for about a week.)
Int: 12 (I'm smart, nothing special though.)
Wis: 8 (Not very good at judging others plus being extremely long-sighted.)
Cha: 18 (Yup, this is what I'm known for, being charismatic. I can almost always get the girl (however my lackluster wisdom stops me getting further), can usually bring people round to my side and am an excellent public speaker. I've been told I can sing well and am quite proud of my voice.)


I'd most likely be a Bard, ranks in Perform (Vocal).

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm going to take liberties with the point buy system and try to stat myself honestly without regard for it (meaning that there is some possibility stats will be less than 8!). I'll also try to shoot for the middle where possible, but when accounting for specific circumstances allowed by the system, I will either aim high and round down with flaws (from Unearthed Arcana), or aim low and round up with feats.

Now then!

Human Bard 1
Strength: 7
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 16

Justifications for each:
Strength (7): I don't think this is really disputable; my experience as a stagehand has given me a decent sense of what, exactly, I can lift and what I can't. My build supports this; I am a 6'0, 110-lb weakling.

Dexterity (12): This one is somewhat difficult to judge. I have a fine sense of balance, good fine motor skills, and a good proprioceptive sense. Years of practice on the piano have made me particularly good with my hands, and I have learned ambidexterity. I do not consider myself an adept in any of these fields, but I do consider myself at least slightly (measurably) above average overall.

Constitution (10): This one is tough. I have a tendency towards getting sick; however, I have a strong immune system, and these bouts of sickness usually only occur in times of weakness due to extenuating circumstances (days-long stretches without restful sleep in cold environments followed by a trip through a busy airport and a visit to a first-grade classroom; I caught a cold from this), and usually this strong immune system rights these ailments with little downtime and no severe symptoms (the "cold" I had began and ended with a sore throat, and slight nasal congestion, and kept me down for less than 18 hours total). I'd say this averages itself out; however, I also do EXTREMELY well with matters of endurance, including dealing with extreme weather environments (given proper circumstances, of course). Instead of giving myself an above-average CON score, I will give myself a flat 10 (hit-and-miss on matters of fortitude), with the Endurance feat.

Intelligence (16): This is largely subjective. If you measure it as being IQ/10, which is a simple metric for intelligence, then I am about a 16. If you measure it as your placement on the bell curve, statistically speaking, I am a 17 (there is about a 1.9% chance of rolling a 17 or 18 on a 3d6, and I happen to fall, all told, at the lower end of the top 2%, overall). I have always been at the top of every class, and have a keen sense of logic and reason. I was called a prodigy when I was younger, though not of the type that would garner national attention or anything of the like (meaning, I fell far enough ahead of the curve to raise eyebrows, but not enough to make more than local headlines). 16 or 17 is fitting.

Wisdom (8): I am a walking contradiction in this department. I have a very addictive personality, but am very strong-willed in regards to substances and self-control (in other words: I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or indulge in any dangerous substances legal or otherwise, because I am aware of what might happen in my case if I do). I am wise beyond my years in social situations where I am the outsider; I am calm and level-headed, and always willing to approach any situation with care and tact. Friends, family, even relative strangers come to me for mediation and advice. When I myself am in these same situations, however, things tend to go poorly. I am very trusting (my words)/gullible (everyone else's), which makes me overly sympathetic and easily duped. I lack initiative in my personal life and am very inattentive as a whole, meaning that I could quickly develop a keen understanding of how the chemical properties of certain foods work within your body and give sound advice on exactly what type of foods you might want to eat to complement each other based on your dietary restrictions and the like, but forget to feed myself for days on end because I simply forgot. I attribute the interpersonal intuitiveness as being Charisma-based (with a focus on the Diplomacy skill) and dump this stat, because that's all I really have here.

Charisma (16): Physically speaking, I am told that I am average-looking, or at least unassuming. I'm not going to win any beauty contests, but my smiley is pretty enough, I guess. I have a strong stage presence, and have always loved performing (though I did go through a shy run in my teenage years). I don't play lead roles, because I lack the initiative to learn them, but I play the supporting roles admirably, if I do say so myself. The 16, however, comes from the fact that on a very basic, fundamental level, I have always been very good at connecting with people. I tend to get a sense of who somebody is very quickly, and use that to my advantage to build a strong, trusting relationship with them. As such, I have a wide network of friends that often come to me to share their fears, their insecurities, their aspirations... Well, you get the picture. I've been told I'd make a natural psychologist, but I can't stand the prescription culture that has been breeding from it (I'm one of those purists that believes a psychological problem can be best managed with therapy). I've also been told I'd make a natural politician, but after dabbling in politics for a few years, I've come to find that I die a little inside at the very notion.

Feats & Flaws:
Noncombatant (Flaw): I am a pacifist, and avoid physical combat whenever possible (and since I tend to be able to talk my way out of things, I've not been in a fight since I was a small boy).
Skill Focus (Perform [Keyboard]): Fourteen years of piano and keyboard experience make this my instrument of choice.
Endurance: To account for my above-average endurance in spite of my average constitution.
Artist: Because Versatile Performer would have been overkill, regarding my non-keyboard performances (I'm pretty laughable at the bass guitar, but learning fast, and I'm a decent vocalist). Craft skill that gains the relevant bonus is metallurgy, in which I was once an apprentice.

Traits:
Absent-minded
Detached
Easy-Going
Inattentive
Polite
Skinny
These are all self-explanatory.

It's getting late and I can't be arsed to deal with a full set of skills.

[Frozen_Feet]

You're assuming everyone rolls, which makes no sense when you look at the real world as crippled people with 3 strength and muscle men with 18 do not make up over 2% of the population AFAIK.

... together, they make up less than a percent. Also, there's little reason to assume that people don't roll. All point-buys and arrays are based on the 3d6 roll. By 3.5 rules, the real expectional people don't even throw 3d6, in order - they throw 4d6, drop worst die roll, arrange to suit. :smalltongue:

Besides, in both D&D and real life, the "average person" is a stereotype, a statistical llusion. Most people are decidedly unaverage in at least some regard - the "average person" is just the mean of the sum total of their differences. There might not exist a single "average person" in the real set.

An example: if half of Finnish males have two cars, and the other half has two girls, we can mistakingly conclude that the "average" Finnish male has one car and one girl, though in reality, there isn't anyone like that. This in the same vein as the earlier example of ability scores; yes, 10 and 11 are the "average" and encountered most often, but people who are average in every respect are very uncommon.

People look at high ability scores and make a much bigger deal out of them than they really should. With a normal roll, the best INT you can have is 18, so anyone with that must be Einstein!

But looking at the actual game rules, INT 18 is only +4 to a couple of skills. That's something an average first level person can achieve simply through training. INT also increases skill points, but class is still much more influential for determining them.

A Commoner with INT 18 has 2 + 4 = 6 skillpoints per level. An average Expert with 10 INT has the same amount. Furthermore, since all Knowledge skills are cross-class to our Commoner, he effectively has only half the skillpoints the Expert has for the purposes of attaining scientific fame. The Expert can also has higher cap for his Knowledges: Level + 3 instead of (Level +3) / 2.

So, at 1st level, our INT 18 Commoner can through skillpoints and ability modifiers alone get a +6 in a knowledge. The Expert only gets a +4, but while impressive from the Commoner's part, it's not that much. The Expert catches up with the Commoner by level 4, when both will have +7 to their checks.

What does this tell us? It tells us that the world's brightest amateur scientist (the Commoner) will be about as knowledgeable as a stock-average university professor.

Also note: while the +4 from INT is significant provided the Commoner has education (spending skillpoints in ranks of Knowledges), without education the Commoner can only remember trivia (Check DC 10 or less). Even anyone with INT 3 (-4 to checks) has chance of appearing more brilliant in scientific matters of some field if he has just one rank in a Knowledge.

[Boci]

Also, there's little reason to assume that people don't roll.

Yes there is. My maths was off, but as Drelua pointed out if everyone rolls, 1 in 18 people have a 3 or an 18 in something. That seems too common for the world I live in, since it would mean:

In the UK, assuming 60 million people, around 277,777 people cannot carry more than 1o pounds without slowing down.

Amougst over things.

[Eisirt]

Xtom James
Human
Male
5'11" weight 190lbs
speed 40 (I walk faster than the average human and have actually calculated my normal speed into D&D terms here)
Age 25
Classes Gestalt: Monk 10/ Bard 10/ Swashbuckler 10 /Rogue 10/Samurai 10
Attributes
Str: 15
Dex: 17
Con: 17
Int: 23
Wis: 16
Cha: 15
PA: 14

Profession: Writer/Chef/Singer/Jack of All Trades
Bonus Feats: Educated, Endurance, Sword Trained, Pole Trained (Resistances: heat 5, cold 5, sonic 5)

Craft: Master craftsmen: blacksmithing and woodworking
General Feats: Weapon Finesse, (Greater and Improved) Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity, Mobility, Evasion, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge.

Class Features: Flurry of Blows, Arrow Snatching (I've done this in real life...), sneak attack, Martial Arts trained (Shaolin style Crane and Tiger kung fu to be specific).

Flaws: Near Sighted, Insomniac, Argumenative

Languages: English (Old, Middle, Mid-Modern, Modern), Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Italian.

Armor: Tungsten Titanium Modified Gusoku (AC +11, max Dex 6, ACP -3)
Weapons: Keen Tungsten Titanium: Wakasahi and Katana
Katana: 1d8+5 crit x2 15-20 (hardness of 40, hit points 50)
Wakasazhi: 1d6+2 crit x2 15-20 (hardness of 40, hit points of 40)


(Explaining what I've put here. I've trained in Kung Fu, Jujitsu, and Kenjutsu for many years, along with fencing, bo-staff, spear, etc. I've also trained in full armor and own and make my own armor and weapons. I'm also a trained singer and I play the flute. I'm a real Jack of All Trades, anything and everything I've ever tried I've succeeded at (some taking longer than others to reach that success mind you). And while it may seem on here that I'm contradictory at times or I don't know what I'm talking about with D&D at times, I've played the game in all it's versions and sometimes get the rules mixed up between versions.)

I LOLed.... loud. (edit: Yes, that is Loud twice... with reason)

[Tengu_temp]

Strength 18 (I [mis-]calculated it using the carrying capacity tables)
Dexterity 22 (I'm great at reflex-demanding videogames!)
Constitution 20 (haven't been sick once for 2 years)
Intelligence 24 (I aced a high school test once, I'm clearly a genius)
Wisdom 8 (I'm great at reading people but also wacky and crazy)
Charisma 18 (I can talk to a girl without running away, I'm awesomely popular)

OR

Strength 10 (I'm a professional soldier, so average for a combatant of my race)
Dexterity 11 (I can juggle five balls at once, so above average here)
Constitution 8 (I don't exercise much)
Intelligence 12 (PHD in several fields)
Wisdom 8 (I'm great at reading people but also wacky and crazy)
Charisma 6 (I'm not trained in public speaking and look unremarkable)

Choose whichever one you prefer.

[Zonugal]

Man, a whole lot of 16's being thrown out...

[SowZ]

Strength 18 (I [mis-]calculated it using the carrying capacity tables)
Dexterity 22 (I'm great at reflex-demanding videogames!)
Constitution 20 (haven't been sick once for 2 years)
Intelligence 24 (I aced a high school test once, I'm clearly a genius)
Wisdom 8 (I'm great at reading people but also wacky and crazy)
Charisma 18 (I can talk to a girl without running away, I'm awesomely popular)

OR

Strength 10 (I'm a professional soldier, so average for a combatant of my race)
Dexterity 11 (I can juggle five balls at once, so above average here)
Constitution 8 (I don't exercise much)
Intelligence 12 (PHD in several fields)
Wisdom 8 (I'm great at reading people but also wacky and crazy)
Charisma 6 (I'm not trained in public speaking and look unremarkable)

Choose whichever one you prefer.

I think you are pointing out the ridiculousness of both people overestimating and underestimating what stats mean?

The second one is obviously shortchanging. Someone not trained in public speaking and average looking is average Cha. More like 10, unless there are other factors. Someone able to obtain a PHD is several fields is probably going to be noticeably more intelligent then average, not barely, otherwise there is not middle ground for stats. You are average or you are amazing! It would make the 3-18 system completely meaningless. 11 Dex is also an average Dex, 12+ is above average. 10-11 Str isn't the average for a combatant in 3.5, just the average for anyone. A professional soldier is probably above average and more like 12-14.

[yugi24862]

Just a note, for the official Mensa IQ test (Cattell III B) it went up to 161. So you would devide your IQ from this test, you would divide it by 9, not 10. This also means people with 18 int are truly rare, as that would be a IQ of 161, the max.



and my RL stats

Strengh-10 slightly stronger in the legs, weaker in the arms
Dexerty-9 I'm clumsy, but have decent reflexes
Constitution-13 I rarely get ill and have average endurance
Intelligence-16 Using the above formula, I just get a 16.
Wisdom-9 Nothing particular apart that I'm very weak-willed
Charisma-8 I have poor social skills.

[Kurald Galain]

Just a note, for the official Mensa IQ test (Cattell III B) it went up to 161.
Yes, but that's not the point. The idea behind MENSA is that the top 2% most intelligent people are allowed to join. This corresponds pretty well to an int of 17 to 18, assuming a 3d6 spread.

There is no rule, anywhere, that IQ corresponds to int score; that's just a shorthand that people tend to assume (but note that IQ tests are often portrayed incorrectly in fiction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/IQTesting)).

[yugi24862]

Yes, but that's not the point. The idea behind MENSA is that the top 2% most intelligent people are allowed to join. This corresponds pretty well to an int of 17 to 18, assuming a 3d6 spread.

There is no rule, anywhere, that IQ corresponds to int score; that's just a shorthand that people tend to assume (but note that IQ tests are often portrayed incorrectly in fiction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/IQTesting)).

I know that, I was just annoyed at all the people saying they have a IQ of 160+ and divided it by ten to get their INT. IQ does not match INT, but if it did people were using the wrong formula anyways.

[Tengu_temp]

I think you are pointing out the ridiculousness of both people overestimating and underestimating what stats mean?


http://ktliterary.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/captain-obvious-to-the-rescue.jpg

[Ormur]

For honest stat generation I'd assume rolling 3d6.

It's true that people tend to overestimate their worth but another thing to keep in mind is selection bias, people tend to associate with their peers. Playing D&D and posting on this forum involves a non-trivial bias for people of above-average intelligence. Not saying we're all geniuses or that only people with an IQ of 100+ do those things but I doubt the average for this forum would be typical of the general population.

[ghost_warlock]

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/ghost_warlock/gstats.png

[nihil8r]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bill-gates-grants-self-18-dexterity-20-charisma,837/

[Chess435]

Human Factotum 1
Str: 11
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 5
Cha: 8

Feats: Skill Focus (Knowledge [Mathematics]), Font of Inspiration.

[Balor01]

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 9
Int: 9 (-1 laziness modifier)
Wis: 14
Cha: 14(-10 modifier when communicating with attractive opposite sex)

[Crocodactyl]

Lawful Human Commoner

Str:10 I do some sports, but I'm not great.

Con:9 Poor endurance.

Dex:12 I looked at the rest of this array and started to feel bad for myself, so I figured a li'l exaggeration couldn't hurt anyone. But I would say my Dexterity is better than Str, Con, Cha, and Wis.

Int:16 I hate to say 16 like everyone else, but based on IQ with yugi24862's system I got an 18 and that felt way too high. I don't know if I'm overdoing or underdoing this one, but something seems off about it...

Wis:9 Fail Will saves on a regular basis.

Cha:8 I am capable of forming words.

Languages: English, a couple years of Spanish

Skills: Climb, Knowledge(a couple), Open Lock

Flaws: Nearsighted

[Kurald Galain]

I know that, I was just annoyed at all the people saying they have a IQ of 160+ and divided it by ten to get their INT.
...what people?

Int = IQ / 10 is pretty much a discredited meme these days.

[ILM]

Commoner 1, 10 in all stats.

Everyone thinks they're so special...

[Boci]

Commoner 1, 10 in all stats.

Everyone thinks they're so special...

Thanks to education everyone posting here would be an expert. Peasants of the dark age who never had the opertunity to go to school were commoners, not anyone who is working class.

[Tengu_temp]

...what people?

Int = IQ / 10 is pretty much a discredited meme these days.

Discredited doesn't more that people won't repeat it over and over, even if it makes no sense no matter do you look at it from the perspective of DND or RL statistics.

[SowZ]

Commoner 1, 10 in all stats.

Everyone thinks they're so special...

Also, that is competely unrealistic. Most people wouldn't have a ten in all stats if you translated them into D&D.

[Lord.Sorasen]

@Kurald Galain, I don't see how education factors in to intelligence. There have been people in my classes that get 90s in everything that frequently show I'm smarter than them. I could get higher marks if I studied at all, whereas they study constantly, and I get 80s if I do all the work. I'm a genius according to tests, and I have no interest in post-secondary education.

Intelligence as a stat is only based partly on your IQ. Considering them the same is silly, because your intelligence can be boosted as you level up, and your intelligence boosts when you age up.

You said it better than me, really: You could get better if you studied at all. Intelligence in D&D is in the same category as strength for a reason. They change as you do. D&D assumes that you have developed as much as you are going to by the time you start adventuring. You have a very natural lean towards high intelligence. But int is your ability to learn and comprehend things, and if you don't think studying and attempting to learn things will change that capability there's an issue.


Also my own stats... Human expert 1 (Part of the American system is specialized education, meaning I have qualifications above commoners.)

Str 9 : I'm probably strong enough to do most things but I don't think I'm stronger than average.
Dex 9 : Unfortunately I don't have good reflexes at all.
Con 14/8 : This is complicated. I have asthma and my stamina is terrible... But I have a naturally strong build and can put up a lot of abuse otherwise. Maybe low con but toughness as a feat? But then I don't focus enough for that to be worth it.
Int 13 : I used to think I was int 16, but I have recently gone to college and learned how wrong I was. Fun.
Wis 14 : My eyesight isn't bad or anything, but as a philosophy major I should hope to have decent sense motive.
Cha 8 : I'm not attractive, but more than that I don't really communicate as well as I'd like to.

[Zonugal]

Lord.Sorasen, go philosophy majors!

High FIVE!!!

[Calintares]

Human Commoner 1

Str 7
Dex 10
Con 9
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 15

[Timeless Error]

Human Factotum 1 (I'm a trained fencer, so I wanted to pick a class capable of combat, and factotum makes sense for me due to the Intelligence synergy)

Str 9 (not being an adult yet, so I'm probably a little behind the average here, and I've displayed no abnormal athletic ability)
Dex 11 (I dunno...I can twirl pencils through my fingers, and I can balance and do acrobatic tricks on yoga balls, but again, nothing abnormal)
Con 8 (I get colds with alarming frequency, and I am rather bad at running for long distances)
Int 16 (actually, that's probably a little too high for me, seeing as I'm not even out of middle school yet, but I am - or at least I like to think I am - very bright for a 13 year old)
Wis 10 (not much evidence here - I can be absent-minded at times, and I have lousy vision and only marginally better hearing, but I can also be fairly insightful at times - the Inattentive flaw, maybe?)
Cha 11 (I'm terrible at socializing with strangers and coming up with small talk, but I can be persuasive and diplomatic and I'm a decent actor)

Skills:
Balance 2 ranks
Craft (D&D 3.5 Homebrew) 2 ranks - what, that isn't a real skill? Well, I'm making it one.
Diplomacy 2 ranks
Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 Optimization 2 ranks - see note on Craft (D&D Homebrew)
Iaijutsu focus 2 ranks - something to do with the fencing training plus LARPing? Look, I have 40 skill points floating around, I need to pretend I've put them somewhere.
Perform (act) - 2 ranks, maybe? I'm a better actor than most people, but that isn't saying much.
Perform (weapon drill) 2 ranks
Knowledge skills: none yet (I'm assuming that all knowledge learned before late high school/college is an untrained Intelligence check)
And I have no idea what I've done with the rest of my skill points. They'll probably be spent on Knowledge skills when I move up to higher education.

Feats:
Inattentive (flaw)
Meager Fortitude (flaw)
Font of Inspiration
Font of Inspiration
Font of Inspiration
Combat Expertise

[Andorax]

Let's see.

LG Middle-Aged Human Psion 2/Cloistered Cleric 1/Marshal 1

Str 9 (middle-aged, not working out...not feeble but unimpressive)
Dex 11 (high side of average eye-hand coordination)
Con 8 (Lack of conditioning, poor endurance)
Int 19 (1/216 and top 1/2% are about the same thing, and that was as a teen)
Wis 14 (just enough more insightful than those around me that it's a measurable benefit)
Cha 13 (Just convincing enough to get them to listen, then resort to logic and reasoning)

Paralleling myself into game terms, I'm trained to follow my natural talents (Psion), but my faith is important to me (cleric) and I'm developing leadership skills through an intensive management program (marshal).

Skills would focus on knowledge/profession, with a bit of diplomacy for good measure.


Food for thought: "Einstein" gets thrown around a lot here. I'd put forth the idea that 18s aren't so horrendously unattainable, that they're more in the "top 1/2%" category than the "living example of awesomeness for the generation" approach. The incredibly unusually high (Bolt, Einstein, etc.) tend to fall into the "3 levels of human paragon" category with a 20 stat (before levels and age adjustments).

[AMFV]

According to this : http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/terragf/back/xstattest.html

I'm at:

Str: 17 (I concur, although probably closer to 16)

Dex: 10 (I concur with the assessment, I'm not particularly flexible or dexterous)

Con: 16 (I concur, I've had to do many physically grueling in my adult life)

Int: 14 (I think that mensa type tests are a poor measure of intelligence, especially with the varied intelligences presented in D&D, so I do not concur with this. I'm not sure if I'd be higher or lower as there is no real effective measurement of intelligence and analytical capability.)

Wis: 8 (Probably closer to the average of 10 than 8, but whatever, again not really a measurable attribute)

Cha: 11 (Seems about right although again not something that can really be quantified.)

[Tengu_temp]

Note: being a Commoner in the modern world means that you have completely or almost completely no education and that your everyday life is filled with hardship and your diet is poor. In other words, if you can afford a computer on which you can write this, you are probably at least an Expert. Or even better yet, a D20 Modern class. And by D20 Modern standards, if you're high school age or higher, you're probably not level 1 anymore.

[Zonugal]

If I was to bring myself into DnD as an adventurer I would more than likely be a Bard (come on, Bardic Knowledge is pretty much a liberal-arts education...).

I have experiences/education/training in:

Dramatic/Comedic/Musical theater.
Improv Comedy theater.
Fencing (where-in I used comedy/spectacle against my foes)
Ethical & American Philosophy.
Film, Television and Radio production and performance art.
Leadership
Conflict Mediation


So I'd be maybe a third level Bard.
Str 8 (I am pretty darn weak...)
Dex 12 (I am agile but nothing outstanding)
Con 12 (I have asthma but am as strong as an ox when it comes to diseases. I also have a pretty high pain threshold).
Int 14 (Pretty on the ball, but I am honestly down-playing this)
Wis 14 (Philosopher and all, but I tend to perceive people and the surroundings pretty well)
Cha 15 (I am known as being influential and charismatic).

Feats
Weapon Finesse and Snowflake Wardance (from fencing) as well as Skill Focus (Bluff) (I have exceptional skill in deception and being a 'spin doctor').

[Bovine Colonel]

Assuming that the "average" person uses non-elite array:

Str - 7. I'm basically a stick figure.
Dex - 7. Badminton, table tennis, shooting...you name it, I suck at it.
Con - 10. This is a tough one. On the one hand, I'm basically a stick figure. On the other, I've rarely ever gotten sick, and I have a pretty good pain tolerance.
Int - 14. I tend to do very well in standardized tests and things like computer programming.
Wis - 7. I write poor essays because I fail to adequately explain ideas, I am often incapable of noticing things, and my ability to "read" others is down the toilet.
Cha - 7. I cannot carry or start a conversation.

[Titanium Fox]

Strength: 12 (Calculated from Carrying Capacity Tables)
Dexterity: 13
Constitution: 11
Wisdom: 11
Intelligence: 14 (Calculated from the theory that IQ / 10 = Int)
Charisma: 8

Human Monk 1 / Rogue 1 (ECL 2)

Total Skill Bonuses:
Balance: +3
Climb: +5
Concentration: +1
Escape Artist: +7
Hide: +2
Knowlege (Local): +2
Knowlege (Religion): +3
Listen: -5 (Partially Deaf)
Move Silently: +2
Perform (Oratory): +4
Ride: +2
Spot: +1

[Drelua]

Intelligence as a stat is only based partly on your IQ. Considering them the same is silly, because your intelligence can be boosted as you level up, and your intelligence boosts when you age up.

You said it better than me, really: You could get better if you studied at all. Intelligence in D&D is in the same category as strength for a reason. They change as you do. D&D assumes that you have developed as much as you are going to by the time you start adventuring. You have a very natural lean towards high intelligence. But int is your ability to learn and comprehend things, and if you don't think studying and attempting to learn things will change that capability there's an issue.

That's not at all what I meant. If I studied for a test the next day, I'd get a better mark, but I wouldn't be any smarter for it. When the only way someone can get a good mark is by cramming information into their heads, they aren't necessarily smart. Perhaps I would be smarter if I studied instead of, say, playing video games or napping, but not if reading a book is the alternative. My marks will generally be worse for it, but I will not be any less intelligent. This is why I believe our education system makes the mistake outlined in this Tom Waits quote:
We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness. . . We are monkeys with money and guns. People cram information into their heads the night before a test, but they are not demonstrating any real knowledge by doing this, yet they are rewarded for it as if they were.

[AMFV]

That's not at all what I meant. If I studied for a test the next day, I'd get a better mark, but I wouldn't be any smarter for it. When the only way someone can get a good mark is by cramming information into their heads, they aren't necessarily smart. Perhaps I would be smarter if I studied instead of, say, playing video games or napping, but not if reading a book is the alternative. My marks will generally be worse for it, but I will not be any less intelligent. This is why I believe our education system makes the mistake outlined in this Tom Waits quote: People cram information into their heads the night before a test, but they are not demonstrating any real knowledge by doing this, yet they are rewarded for it as if they were.

Alternately only somebody of high intelligence could cram information fast enough to achieve a high score. I would say that people of higher intelligence would require less effort to achieve a higher score, hence the cramming as opposed to actual studying. Why would an intelligent person spend days studying to get a 100% on a test when a 96% from one night matters the same in the long run. It's a question of effort vs. return. A significant increase in effort isn't worth a marginal increase in return.

[Drelua]

Alternately only somebody of high intelligence could cram information fast enough to achieve a high score. I would say that people of higher intelligence would require less effort to achieve a higher score, hence the cramming as opposed to actual studying. Why would an intelligent person spend days studying to get a 100% on a test when a 96% from one night matters the same in the long run. It's a question of effort vs. return. A significant increase in effort isn't worth a marginal increase in return.

Of course smarter people have an easier time getting high marks, but I've seen may fairly unintelligent (to put it nicely) people get straight 90s through discipline, which is certainly another respectable trait, but one that has nothing to do with intelligence. Intelligence can show through in marks to some extent, but you can't tell just from looking at the report cards of two different people, even if their averages are 20 or even 30 points apart, which person is smarter. There is, of course, a correlation between intelligence and marks, but not a direct or constant one. You can't tell just looking at someone's marks how much they study, and that will always be a factor in marks.

[Hanuman]

Skill points =/= Attribute, I see a lot of confusion.

[Hazard_Pay]

Human Fighter 5 (U.S. Marine Archetype) / Expert 2 (Tinkering: Computers)
Neutral

STR 10 (14 - 4 [Spinal Injury])
DEX 19 (17 + 2 [Human adjustment])
CON 12 (14 - 2 [Spinal injury])
INT 13
WIS 5 (Failed will save, after failed will save)
CHA 8 (10 - 2 [Uncouth, +2 intimidate])

Point Blank Shot (Level 1 Feat)
Agile Maneuvers (Human Bonus)
Precise Shot (Fighter 1 Feat)
Far Shot (Fighter 2 Feat)
Rapid Shot (Level 3 Feat)
Rapid Reload (Fighter 4 Feat)
Weapon Focus (Assault Rifle) ( Fighter : Marine Archetype)
Weapon Focus (Pistol) (Fighter : Marine Archetype)
Improved Unarmed Strike (Fighter : Marine Archetype)

Masterwork H&K USP .45 [Inherent +1 to attack and damage] (might be in my head... I love my H&K).... (Morale bonus?)

Animal Companion - 'Murphy' Cat Level 1, Tiny Beast. Favored enemy - Iams indoor formula cat food.
+2 to sleeping.
+4 to eating.
+2 to crapping.
Sleep, eat, crap (Su) 3/day Murphy can amaze his owner with displays of utter worthlessness.


EDIT:
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/terragf/back/xstattest.html
gave me

STR: 10
DEX: 16
CON: 15
INT: 13
WIS: 15
CHA: 11

I still disagree with the wisdom score.... I know how to act with people sure, and have a decent sense motive.. but my god am i a sucker for temptation....

[Princess]

Temptations are what make you CHOOSE to fail your will save :)

Human Wizard or Shadowcaster 4 (or more realistically, Aristocrat 1/Expert 1/Rogue 1 - not rich, just spoiled and given access to weapons), 5'9 1/2'', 189

str - 9ish (Based on what I recall being able to lift over my head)
dex - 7 (clumsy at anything I haven't specifically practiced, and my legs and hips are goofy in an androgynous sort of way that doesn't help)
con - 12 (fairly healthy, rarely sick)
int - 15 (amongst the smartest people I've met, including mingling among university staff, plus I have two bonus languages)
wis - 15 (I catch most of what goes on around me, even if I don't act on it.
cha - 15 (I make excellent first impressions, and attract diverse friends)

Also, martial arts training means I have stunning fist despite not qualifying for the monk class. I have actually used this.

[Basket Burner]

I have no stats, I cannot be killed. Those crazy guys seeking immortality had it all wrong.

[Unseenmal]

According to this link (http://easydamus.com/character.html), I am a NG Human Bard (5th Level)

Ability Scores:
Strength- 12
Dexterity- 15
Constitution- 14
Intelligence- 15
Wisdom- 18
Charisma- 13

But that stat yourself site gave me these:
Strength- 8
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 11
Intelligence- 15
Wisdom- 16
Charisma- 15


I would agree with the class of first one since Bard would be right where I think I would be. However, I think the stats of the 2nd would be more accurate.

So I am a NG Human Bard (5th Level) with these stats. (I added the 4th lvl +1 to CHA)
Strength- 8
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 11
Intelligence- 15
Wisdom- 16
Charisma- 16

[Darthteej]

Aside from my troll entry earlier, the only thing I know for sure is my physical stats.

STR-5
Con-10
Dex-4

And that's what most of us are going to be. Face it.

[Retech]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that intelligence is not equal to doing well in school. If you choose not to do well in school, that is the SAME as not being able to do well in school. Actually, it could be even worse, because then you don't have the commitment to do stuff that you don't see as necessarily worthwhile.

Failing is failing all the same. Being smart means nothing. If you can't do what you need to do with your intelligence, then you might as well give that intelligence to someone else that's actually trying to do things right.

Edit: Or in DnD terms. You got a nice roll for intelligence, but you're a stupid Paladin. Give it to the wizard already so that he isn't stuck casting like a mystic theurge with only one side for half the game!

[Medic!]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that intelligence is not equal to doing well in school. If you choose not to do well in school, that is the SAME as not being able to do well in school. Actually, it could be even worse, because then you don't have the commitment to do stuff that you don't see as necessarily worthwhile.

Failing is failing all the same. Being smart means nothing. If you can't do what you need to do with your intelligence, then you might as well give that intelligence to someone else that's actually trying to do things right.

Somebody's pinging awful high on the lawful chart!

[Retech]

Dang straight!

[Siosilvar]

NG Grey Elf Expert 1/Artificer 1

22 Point Buy
Str: 6 (8)
Dex: 14 (12)
Con: 8 (10)
Int: 17 (15) (only one bonus language)
Wis: 11
Cha: 13

Feat: Weapon Finesse (if only it didn't require BAB+1...)

Skills: 43 ranks

Class Skills: 20
Bluff 2 (+1 = 3)
Jump 5 (-2 = 3)
Knowledge (History) 2 (+3 = 5)
Knowledge (Local) 1
Knowledge (Math) 3 (+3 = 6)
Knowledge (Chem) 3 (+3 = 6)
Knowledge (Physics) 2 (+3 = 5)
Knowledge (misc trivia) 2 (+3 = 5)

Cross-class: 16
Balance 2 (+2 = 3)
Heal 2
Knowledge (Nature) 1 (+3 = 4)
Tumble 1 (+2 = 3)
Use Rope 2

7 more ranks... somewhere?

[Fisticuffs]

I decided not to put numbers because they will always seem off.

Chaotic Good (I'm an anarchist with a Gandhi approach)
Half-Elf (A sociable outcast)
Factotum X(I often end up having to bull-s**t doing things and am skilled in many areas with no focus)/Paladin of Freedom X(I'm spiritual and find that action is needed for one's goals)

Str: Low (I'm skinny and can't lift much)
Dex: High (I can pick up objects with my feet and irregularly climb up buildings)
Con: Middle(I have a high pain tolerance but have a bad back)
Int: High(People have me do math for them, I have good reasoning skills, and I'm often in thought)
Wis: Middle(I'm impatient and easily distracted but I'm very observant, spiritual, political, and philosophical)
Cha: High(I'm a good liar, can hold a conversation, and can be persuasive)

[AMFV]

Honestly, it doesn't matter that intelligence is not equal to doing well in school. If you choose not to do well in school, that is the SAME as not being able to do well in school. Actually, it could be even worse, because then you don't have the commitment to do stuff that you don't see as necessarily worthwhile.

Failing is failing all the same. Being smart means nothing. If you can't do what you need to do with your intelligence, then you might as well give that intelligence to someone else that's actually trying to do things right.

Edit: Or in DnD terms. You got a nice roll for intelligence, but you're a stupid Paladin. Give it to the wizard already so that he isn't stuck casting like a mystic theurge with only one side for half the game!
Intelligence the attribute is a measure of aptitude not a measure of effort. I for example did moderately well in High School despite being, at least in my opinion very bright. I later dropped out, then I went to college, where I excelled and generally was in the highest margins in all my classes. Ergo I was intelligent but not committed. Ergo attributes are not based on your effort. I could go to the gym every day for years and work out but I'm not going to be stronger than someone who can naturally lift more than what I can.

[LudiDrizzt]

According to this : http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/terragf/back/xstattest.html

I'm at:

Str: 17 (I concur, although probably closer to 16)

Dex: 10 (I concur with the assessment, I'm not particularly flexible or dexterous)

Con: 16 (I concur, I've had to do many physically grueling in my adult life)

Int: 14 (I think that mensa type tests are a poor measure of intelligence, especially with the varied intelligences presented in D&D, so I do not concur with this. I'm not sure if I'd be higher or lower as there is no real effective measurement of intelligence and analytical capability.)

Wis: 8 (Probably closer to the average of 10 than 8, but whatever, again not really a measurable attribute)

Cha: 11 (Seems about right although again not something that can really be quantified.)

Using that same test, I got the following:

Str: 11
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

Not a good description of Cha, though. Force of personality, not how well liked you are.

[Retech]

Yes, but everyone thinks they are brighter than average, just like everyone thinks they drive more safely than the average person.

So I never do it based on that. Results correlate more with a person's intelligence than their personal opinion, so that's why I use them to determine the so called "intelligence" of a person.

If you have high natural aptitude, you should be able to go beyond someone else with less natural aptitude.

[danzibr]

Anyone here want to grow up to be 'average'? 10-11 is the human average for stats. How many people do you know fit the description 'average human'? I do my best to avoid the company of such people.
This comment makes me think of the movie Idiocracy. It's not common to find someone... completely average.

As for myself, I'd be Commoner 1 with a few ranks in Mathematics, Video Games and half a rank in Japanese. For stats... I'm sure my Con would be low, most everything else average.

[Drelua]

Yes, but everyone thinks they are brighter than average, just like everyone thinks they drive more safely than the average person.

So I never do it based on that. Results correlate more with a person's intelligence than their personal opinion, so that's why I use them to determine the so called "intelligence" of a person.

If you have high natural aptitude, you should be able to go beyond someone else with less natural aptitude.

I don't get better grades than most people, at least not in the last semester of grade 12 because I was very depressed, but I still got As on the stuff I could be bothered to. I've written two papers in one night while watching TV and I got 80s on both. I've enjoyed writing essays and gotten a 97 on them, because the more interested I am in something the better I do. I nearly failed my easiest class in Grade 12 because I just didn't care enough to do the idiotic, childish assignments that we were assigned.

It's one thing to say that you don't trust someone's own opinion of themselves to be accurate, and it makes sense to put more stock in their grades if you don't know them, but to claim that their marks are always definitively more accurate is arrogant, and in my case just plain wrong. I would have got 80s and 90s in everything if I cared enough to try, as shown by my marks when I do apply myself. Marks may give a clearer picture the intellect of someone who arrogantly claims to be a genius while getting terrible marks and actually trying, but when someone is not in the mental state to care about school or even be capable of making an effort to do well in school, marks aren't such a good measure of how smart someone is. The IQ test that gave me 140 when I was half asleep in class is a little more accurate.

TL;DR It may be easier to look at someone's marks to see how smart they are, but that is only accurate in some cases, and you have to know the person to be able to tell if they'll be an accurate reflection.

[Onikani]

Guys, calculating your int is EASY.

Take your IQ
divide by 10
Profit.

Average humans have between a 95 and 115 IQ, and a 10 or 11 Int.

People like Einstein and Steven Hawkins have an int somewhere between 160-200 IQ (the tests tend to become less conclusive at higher levels of intellect.

So you are in this thread proposing you have a 18 int, i seriously expect to be seeing some books and Nobel Prizes from you soon.

Most D&D players and forum goers will have a 10-14 int. Many of us even speak 2-3 languages, so that is perfectly on par with D&D raw.



As for myself:
Str 14 (based off the encumbrance charts)
Dex 10 (nothing special here)
Con 9 (someone else sneezes, i'm in bed for 2 days)
Int 14 (see argument above)
Wis 12 (slightly above average)
Cha 11 (again, nothing special here)

I'm a 22 point buy, lol unplayable by most gaming standards. :D

[AMFV]

Yes, but everyone thinks they are brighter than average, just like everyone thinks they drive more safely than the average person.

So I never do it based on that. Results correlate more with a person's intelligence than their personal opinion, so that's why I use them to determine the so called "intelligence" of a person.

If you have high natural aptitude, you should be able to go beyond someone else with less natural aptitude.

Yet I stated that later results were dramatically higher. Ergo either I spontaneously became vastly more intelligent, or I was intelligent the entire time and only later began to apply myself. The former is more likely than the latter. Although I will concede the latter is possible. Self-assessment is not always accurate but it often is.

I have taken more tests designed to measure intelligence and aptitude both in school and in later life, I have generally scored in the top percentile on the tests, which would indicate intelligence, even if it was not at the time expressed in my grade reports, or in my later dropping out of high school. Scholastic aptitude is not a direct measure of intelligence, it is a measure of patience and effort, things I did not possess as a teenager.

So in conclusion, it is as dangerous to simply assume someone is unintelligent because they believe they are. Generally arrogance has a root, and people who tend to have a high estimation of their own abilities frequently possess better than average abilities. If you want to test this theory, start picking fights with people who claim to be able to fight. You'll find that many who make that claim can. The same holds true for intelligence at least in my experience.

[Frozen_Feet]

STR-5
Con-10
Dex-4

And that's what most of us are going to be. Face it.

... I take most don't go to the gym and practice martial arts three times a week, then.

Anyways, since I haven't done it yet, here's my approximate character sheet:

Race & Class: Human Expert 1 or 2. (Real-life profession: Heating, Air-conditioning and plumbing mechanic / janitor / construction worker. Hobbies include karate, scouting, hunting.)

Str: 10. Tested in the gym, though it's a bit skewed; my upper body strenght is less than impressive, so that 100 lbs. is a lot for me to lift above my head, but I can carry a guy weighing 200 lbs. on my back and run. 330 lbs. is the max I can actually get off the ground.

Dex: 10. I don't have a good test or result to measure this by, though.

Con: 12. Based on a 12 minute running test and how long I can hold my breath.

Int: 16. Based on the correlation between standard deviation of the last reliable IQ test I've had and probability distribution of 3d6 roll.

Wisdom: 16. Another hard-to-measure one, so I'm just putting it as same as Int. People tend to find me more insightful and perceptive than themselves, but by how much is impossible determine, nevermind how it'd correlate to the population as a whole.

Cha: 12. Based on Finnish army leadership qualification and evaluation tests and the percentage of conscripts to receive NCO training. The core assumption here is that you are not picked for either NCO or CO training without some natural leadershi capability, attributed to Charisma.

Flaws: Murky-eyed or something similar to represent bad near-sightedness.

Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency (Assault Rifle), Imp. Unarmed Strike, ???

Skills: Knowledge (Architechture & Engineering), Knowledge (Religion) [Cross-class], Knowledge (Nature), Profession (mechanic), Craft (Welding), Heal, Survival, Concentration, Use Rope, Listen, Spot, Knowledge (Local) [Cross-class, Gather Information [Cross-class]

[Drelua]

Guys, calculating your int is EASY.

Take your IQ
divide by 10
Profit.

Average humans have between a 95 and 115 IQ, and a 10 or 11 Int.

People like Einstein and Steven Hawkins have an int somewhere between 160-200 IQ (the tests tend to become less conclusive at higher levels of intellect.

Dividing IQ by 10 doesn't work. If you roll 3d6, slightly under 5% of the time, you will get a 16, 17 or 18. I don't think 5% of NPCs have at least 160 IQ. About 16% of the time you will get at least a 14, meaning 16% of people are geniuses, more when rolling for a PCs stats since they use a better rolling method. It's not that simple, especially since a lot of IQ tests seem to measure wisdom as well as intelligence.

[Frozen_Feet]

Guys, calculating your int is EASY.

Take your IQ
divide by 10
Profit.

That is a piss-poor way of measuring Int, especially since many IQ tests don't even go past 150 IQ. Yes, that also means that IQ tests are not uniform in scoring.

A better way is to compare standard deviation of an IQ tests to that of the 3d6 roll. So, if your given score says 50% of people are as smart or smarter, you look at what score of Int would fill that qualifier - in this case, it's 10.

Once-in-a-century geniuses are better explained by having Int 19 or some other number outside the standard 3 to 18 range. That would mean they're either above level 4 or taken levels in a non-standard class, explaining their specialness much better.

Remember: 3 to 18 range if for ordinary people who've just reached adulthood and mastery in their 1st profession. You don't need to try cram every special case in that range, because d20 system goes beyond that!

[Onikani]

Dividing IQ by 10 doesn't work. If you roll 3d6, slightly under 5% of the time, you will get a 16, 17 or 18. I don't think 5% of NPCs have at least 160 IQ. About 16% of the time you will get at least a 14, meaning 16% of people are geniuses, more when rolling for a PCs stats since they use a better rolling method. It's not that simple, especially since a lot of IQ tests seem to measure wisdom as well as intelligence.

Hi Dru! :D
I could actually reference a WotC document that says IQ roughly = Intx10, but you'd prolly disagree anyway. :smallwink:

But, there's something here you have missed, most commoners are supposed to be made with a 15 point buy.

Adventurers are supposed to be a step above the common stock which is why they get a 25 point buy (or the oh-so coveted "elite array").

Only exceptional NPC's should have stats above 14, and as has already been pointed out, if you do roll 3d6 you only get an eighteen 0.46% of the time. That's pretty low, even if your odds of getting a 16 are closer to 10%.


We could go deeper and say that IQ is a person's ability to reason and learn (aka int), and i won't argue that some tests also measure some wisdom.
But my main point is, for the majority of people gamers and forumites included, the simple divide by ten rule works just fine.

Again, if 18 is the absolute maximum value attainable by humans without levels, where would people like Einstein be? Maybe over 20 because of some bonuses from levels, but he clearly "started out" at 17 or 18.

Now think of where the people in this thread land when compared to Einy and Hawkins. Comments where people are trying to justify a 17 int because they are taking calc in High school start to sound like complete rubbish...


EDIT - At FrozenFeet


especially since many IQ tests don't even go past 150 IQ. Yes, that also means that IQ tests are not uniform in scoring.

I specifically mentioned that most tests break down after 160 - it happens for a reason.



A better way is to compare standard deviation of an IQ tests to that of the 3d6 roll. So, if your given score says 50% of people are as smart or smarter, you look at what score of Int would fill that qualifier - in this case, it's 10.


Again, and most humans have a 100IQ, funny how that works out.
In both cases however, we are not comparing percentiles, we are comparing a bell curve, where the farthest extremes only occur a grand total of 1% (0.46% each) of the time.




Once-in-a-century geniuses are better explained by having Int 19 or some other number outside the standard 3 to 18 range. That would mean they're either above level 4 or taken levels in a non-standard class, explaining their specialness much better.

Remember: 3 to 18 range if for ordinary people who've just reached adulthood and mastery in their 1st profession. You don't need to try cram every special case in that range, because d20 system goes beyond that!

Lol, we were typing this at the same time, and largely we seem in agreement. Except an 18 in any stat is already not within the realm of ordinary people, it is certainly possible, but not 'ordinary'.

[Frozen_Feet]

Lol, we were typing this at the same time, and largely we seem in agreement. Except an 18 in any stat is already not within the realm of ordinary people, it is certainly possible, but not 'ordinary'.

Point here is: a level 1 person of whatever NPC class, between 16 to 27 years, is not that special, even with 18 in whatever score.

One out of 216 is uncommon, but not so much I'd call it extra-ordinary. Overall, there'd be a lot of people with high stat in at least some score (6/216, or 2,77... %) just after getting past adolescense, following starting ages of d20 system.

[Drelua]

You're right, I do disagree with the designers, because that system is horribly inaccurate.

I think the point buy you mentioned is Pathfinder, but in 3.5 I'm pretty sure it was the 3d6 method for NPCs, which, as I said gets geniuses roughly 15% of the time, at 14 or higher. That is a very rough system that is sort of accurate with closer to average numbers, but at the extremes it doesn't work too well. IQ tests generally seem to measure only one type on intelligence, almost entirely memory and pattern analysis in the ones I've done. I would say genius IQ is at least a score of 16, although I really don't care what IQ says, as I don't see intelligence being easily quantified.

The formula for IQ is rather a simple one; mental age/chronological agex100, I believe. How you define mental age, I don't know, but I do know that according to this system IQ doesn't increase ass you age, like mental scores do. For example, if a test said you had a mental age of 40 at age 20, that's an IQ of 200. If another person has that same mental age at age 60, their IQ is 67, yet they're just as smart as an incredible genius who is 20, if age is removed from the equation. Theoretically, the average person's mental age is the same as their chronological age, but that's not how your INT score works; it averages to 13 for a mentally healthy old man.

I can pretty much prove that IQ/10 doesn't work for people that aren't between 15 and 34, or for the extreme numbers, and I don't believe it works very well for anything else.

PS: According to Races of the Wild, Drelua is elven for holy hound, and is the name for my favourite character, a ranger. Don't call me Dru. :smalltongue:

[Mad Gene Vane]

At what age are we statting ourselves out at?

Starting adventurer between 17-21 y.o.? 25 years old? Middle-aged adventure between 35 - 40 y.o.?

I think this would make a big difference for most people.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Given that I'm doing calc at my age, I think the 18 is pretty justified...

No, no, no. 18 is the natural peak of perfection in a human. Einstein has 18 Intelligence. Unless you're like 12 or something, then maybe your score is justified.

[DonutBoy12321]

Unlike most of the people here, I will take a quiz to see what character I am. Last time I was a Chaotic Neutral Wizard, but it may have changed.

Edit: This time, I'm a True Neutral Human Wizard, with the following stats:
Str: 13
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 13
Cha: 15

Funnily enough, I leaned just as far towards Neutral Good as Neutral Evil, in the detailed results.

[jaybird]

Hmm...probably an Alchemist 1 (university Chem major).

STR 10 (martial arts 4 times a week, nothing special)
DEX 12 (former track runner, recreational shooting)
CON 8 (get sick about twice a year)
INT 14 (university student, Dean's List)
WIS 11 (no problems living independently)
CHA 11 (get along with most people, in relationship)

Skills:
Knowledge (Nature), (History), (Religion), (Nobility), and (Engineering), Craft (Alchemy) and (Food), Profession (Alchemist), Linguistics.

Feats:
Skill Focus (Alchemy), Weapon Proficiency (Small Arms), Dilettante.

[Frozen_Feet]

At what age are we statting ourselves out at?

Starting adventurer between 17-21 y.o.? 25 years old? Middle-aged adventure between 35 - 40 y.o.?

I think this would make a big difference for most people.

If the goal is to stat yourself, why not stat yourself according to your actual age?

Re: Geniuses: Drelua, I have no freaking idea why you'd consider anyone with just Int 14 a genius. Genius is a sum of natural aptitude, opportunity, and education, which translate to feats, class, experience levels and skill choices in d20. A level 1 commoner with Int 18 won't become Einstein, even for an Expert 1 that's impossible without feats and right skills.

To actually explain genius under the d20 system, you have to go past starting abilities, to the realm of rules minutiae such as aging bonuses, class choice, class skills and so on. I'd argue 18 is just one score wouldn't even be enough to be a genius in any single field - a genius martial artist or sportsman would likely need high scores in all of Str, Dex and Con, and genius scientist would need decent scores in Wis and Cha too in addition to Int.

Also, there are (almost) age independent IQ tests, have been for a while. The standard, I think, is Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale), which should rate everyone past adolescence with decent accuracy.

[Onikani]

I think the point buy you mentioned is Pathfinder, but in 3.5 I'm pretty sure it was the 3d6 method for NPCs, which, as I said gets geniuses roughly 15% of the time, at 14 or higher. That is a very rough system that is sort of accurate with closer to average numbers, but at the extremes it doesn't work too well. IQ tests generally seem to measure only one type on intelligence, almost entirely memory and pattern analysis in the ones I've done. I would say genius IQ is at least a score of 16, although I really don't care what IQ says, as I don't see intelligence being easily quantified.

It's not pathfinder, I've never even opened a pathfinder book. I'll dig through my dead tree versions of the DMG and PHB and edit it in when i get a few minutes.

And I meant to call you Dre, a simple shortening to the first syllable, the way many others call me Oni. :)

[jaybird]

Hmm...probably an Alchemist 1 (university Chem major).

STR 10 (martial arts 4 times a week, nothing special)
DEX 12 (former track runner, recreational shooting)
CON 8 (get sick about twice a year)
INT 14 (university student, Dean's List)
WIS 11 (no problems living independently)
CHA 11 (get along with most people, in relationship)

Skills:
Knowledge (Nature), (History), (Religion), (Nobility), and (Engineering), Craft (Alchemy) and (Food), Profession (Alchemist), Linguistics.

Feats:
Skill Focus (Alchemy), Weapon Proficiency (Small Arms), Dilettante.

[Frozen_Feet]

No, no, no. 18 is the natural peak of perfection in a human.

Actually going by d20 system, the peak for a 1st level person would be 21 at 70+ years. 4th level person with 3 levels in Human Paragon can have the same before middle-age; or do you belong to the group who insists everyone is level 1 in real life?

[Drelua]

If the goal is to stat yourself, why not stat yourself according to your actual age?

Re: Geniuses: Drelua, I have no freaking idea why you'd consider anyone with just Int 14 a genius. Genius is a sum of natural aptitude, opportunity, and education, which translate to feats, class, experience levels and skill choices in d20. A level 1 commoner with Int 18 won't become Einstein, even for an Expert 1 that's impossible without feats and right skills.

To actually explain genius under the d20 system, you have to go past starting abilities, to the realm of rules minutiae such as aging bonuses, class choice, class skills and so on. I'd argue 18 is just one score wouldn't even be enough to be a genius in any single field - a genius martial artist or sportsman would likely need high scores in all of Str, Dex and Con, and genius scientist would need decent scores in Wis and Cha too in addition to Int.

Also, there are (almost) age independent IQ tests, have been for a while. The standard, I think, is Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale), which should rate everyone past adolescence with decent accuracy.

I never said 14 intelligence was genius, I said if genius IQ is 140 or higher, which I think it is (or maybe 145, I'm not sure but I think I read something like that), and you used the system of dividing IQ by 10, then it would be, in argument against that system.

It's interesting that there are age independent IQ tests, I had just read that formula...somewhere, but that just shows that IQ varies by what test you take to measure it, another reason why IQ/10 doesn't work.

Anyway, genius seems to be a really loosely defined term, so it could mean two completely different things depending on how it's used.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Re: Geniuses: Drelua, I have no freaking idea why you'd consider anyone with just Int 14 a genius. Genius is a sum of natural aptitude, opportunity, and education, which translate to feats, class, experience levels and skill choices in d20. A level 1 commoner with Int 18 won't become Einstein, even for an Expert 1 that's impossible without feats and right skills.

No, but if you were to use the divide your IQ by 10 method alone, it wouldn't be far off, as an IQ of 160+ puts you in the 99.99997th Percentile.

EDIT:

Actually going by d20 system, the peak for a 1st level person would be 21 at 70+ years. 4th level person with 3 levels in Human Paragon can have the same before middle-age; or do you belong to the group who insists everyone is level 1 in real life?

Might as well, yeah. Maybe 3rd max for highly skilled people.

[Frozen_Feet]

Might as well, yeah. Maybe 3rd max for highly skilled people.

Which incidentally would allow Human Paragon 3, and ability scores of 20. Considering how well the fluff fits, it'd make HP explanation of choice for most geniuses.

[Mad Gene Vane]

Here's my "old man" stats ;-)

Str: 8
Dex: 9
Con: 7
(being fat and out of shape...sigh...at 25 those numbers would look so much better)
Int: 14
Wis: 16*
Cha: 14

* I find my instinct for self-preservation to be inversely proportional to the level of raging hormones in my body.

The progression of Wis, I think, goes up either exponentially or at the least geometrically, after about age 21 or 22. I think, if you wanted to stat out real humans, there should be some serious age related penalties to Wisdom for those under 21 or 22.

[Frozen_Feet]

As far as I recall, there were rules for children somewhere, and they got -1 to all abilities for each category below young adult, if I recall right. By such rules, 62.5% of people below 16 years of age would have Wis of 9 or less.

[Mad Gene Vane]

As far as I recall, there were rules for children somewhere, and they got -1 to all abilities for each category below young adult, if I recall right. By such rules, 62.5% of people below 16 years of age would have Wis of 9 or less.

That actually makes some sense.

[Retech]

Yet I stated that later results were dramatically higher. Ergo either I spontaneously became vastly more intelligent, or I was intelligent the entire time and only later began to apply myself. The former is more likely than the latter. Although I will concede the latter is possible. Self-assessment is not always accurate but it often is.

I have taken more tests designed to measure intelligence and aptitude both in school and in later life, I have generally scored in the top percentile on the tests, which would indicate intelligence, even if it was not at the time expressed in my grade reports, or in my later dropping out of high school. Scholastic aptitude is not a direct measure of intelligence, it is a measure of patience and effort, things I did not possess as a teenager.

So in conclusion, it is as dangerous to simply assume someone is unintelligent because they believe they are. Generally arrogance has a root, and people who tend to have a high estimation of their own abilities frequently possess better than average abilities. If you want to test this theory, start picking fights with people who claim to be able to fight. You'll find that many who make that claim can. The same holds true for intelligence at least in my experience.

I'm just quoting you, but responding to the other guy as well.

Naturally actually knowing someone > grades + testing
And even asking someone that you know directly (and they know that you've been around them, so they can't over-estimate without appearing like an idiot) > grades + testing

But I would never take the self analysis of someone on the internet (or really, if I was someone who was doing hiring, anyone that doesn't know the person directly) over grades and testing.

Then again, it's hard to compare stats. People use different systems. 1 outta 216 statistical distribution, Einstein, etc. So it's take at face value thing.

[mirageknuckler]

Here are my hypothetical scores with explanations:
STR: 12 I'm stronger then someone who doesn't work out at all, but not exceptionally so.
DEX: 18 I am extremely flexible; I can put my feet behind my head, place my hands flat on the floor while my legs are straight, and I'm also a pretty fast runner.
CON: 11 I'm not very tough; I can take a hit, but I'm not above average by any stretch.
INT: 14 I am ahead of my grade in several respects and I have a very sophisticated vocabulary acquired from 12 years of reading.
WIS: 15 I'm a very good decision maker, and people tend to ask me for advice on things. I'm also very good at telling when people are lying.
CHA: 12 I am kind of attractive, and I can keep up my end of a conversation.

[Mockingbird]

In the form of a first level character-

Halfing Bard (I have epic piano skeels)
Str 9- I'm just about average.
Con 10- I can take a hit.
Dex 12- I have good reflexes, I guess..
Int 11- I'm fairly smart, lols.
Wis 13- Unlike most people I know, I have common sense. O_o
Cha 14- I lie well. Really, really, really well.

[lorddrake]

Well... Discussions apart I'd stat myself as:

True Namer lvl1 (haha, I'm more powerfull than I will be when I hit 20)
True Neutral

Str 6 (I'm 6ft (1,83m) and still lose arm wrestle against girls)
Dex 10
Con 13
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 11

[Kansaschaser]

What I think I really am...

Human - Lawful Neutral (Reason: I follow all the laws without question. I use my turn signal, buckle my seatbelt, and observer the speed limit. If I were in the military and I was ordered to drop the bomb on Hiroshima or to kill a child, I would do it without question.) - Priest 3 (real ordained priest) / Commoner 2 (I'm pretty common.)

STR 13 (Reason: I can carry around 50lbs of D&D books in an oversized backpack without slowing down.)
DEX 11 (Reason: I am fairly flexable, but not gymnastic quality.)
CON 10 (Reason: I am of average health. Nothing to complain about.)
INT 13 (Reason: I excel in some areas of study such as science and math and fail in others such as history.)
WIS 15 (Reason: Never quick to anger so I always succeed on my Will saves. Calm demeanor and can see insights where others see none.)
CHA 14 (Reason: Moved around a lot as a child so I had to be good at making friends. I can mediate disputes and get everyone to come to a mutual agreement.)

If I were "teleported" into the universe of D&D, I would want to be this.

Human - Neutral - Wizard 10 :smalltongue:

[BlackestOfMages]

I am a... Level 4 unarmed swordsage

str: 16 (I can quite eiasly lift 75 pounds without really noticing it all that much, and I can throw shiz darned far)
dex: 8 (I have very little flexibility, and though I'm not clumsy, it still drops thanks to that
Con: 12 (I have pretty good endurance and I can take hits pretty well)
Int 16 (I ranked in the top 5 % of country at school, and came out with As and Bs from colleage)
wis 9 (I often act without thinking things through fully and I suck at time management. I am good at sticking to plans once there made, so it gets a little boost)
Cha 10: I'm verage here, really

I'm a swordsage because: I'm a trained martial artist, with a 2nd dan in shotokan karate, but also pretty good knowledge in shupukai and Waderu disciplines as well. I also know the basic techniques and footwork of Akido as well. Because my main dicsipline is shotokhan, I can adapt my techniques to be used with a katana/quaterstick. I also know the basics to wrestling to help counter my weaknes to grabs

skills: Knowledges (history)2 (computer) 3 (martial lore ) 2, bluff a fair bit, same with intimidate. suck at swimming so a natural penalty. other skills...

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'm a Lawful Evil Human Rogue 1/Archaeologist Bard 1. I have the Flaws Slow, Noncombatant, and Feeble and the Feats Keen Intellect, Personal Firearms Proficiency, and Great Fortitude. Technically I should have one more Feat and one fewer Flaw, but I am aiming for accurate simulation over rules consistency.

Strength: 13 or 14 range. As slow as I move, I can move nearly as fast while carrying my own body weight. I'm not even remotely athletic, but zero ranks in Strength-based skills and the Feeble penalties account for that.

Dexterity: 6 or 7. I am neither coordinated nor agile.

Constitution: 12. I have no stamina to speak of-- Feeble again-- but my ability to sustain abuse is impressive.

Intelligence: 18. I'm in the 99th percentile of humanity for raw intelligence. I'm not nearly as smart as the smartest human beings alive-- 1 in 1296 has a score of 20 at 1st level-- but I have a considerable breadth of knowledge and skill for someone with little formal education and no professional training.

Wisdom: 6 or 7 again. The only Wisdom based skills at which I am not abysmal are the ones covered by Keen Intellect, just like my Will save.

Charisma: 12 to 14. The only people who don't love me are people I've given damned good reasons not to. Even though I am admittedly very arrogant and openly promote ideals that most people consider to be Evil.

As far as skills go, I'm trained in Stealth, Linguistics, Disable Device, Heal, Ride, Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive. Bardic Knowledge covers most of my knowledge base, but I'm trained in Arcana, History, Local and Religion. I can drive a car, but anything else I'm even remotely good at is Intelligence based and can be used untrained.

Ideally, I'd rather ditch the Rogue level and advance as a full caster-- but getting the spells I want as a spontaneous arcane caster is difficult enough without trying to make it work with Intelligence. Especially preserving the skill points and Bardic Knowledge, which are essential to how I function as a person.

[Dr.Epic]

Screen name persona:

Str: 8
Con: 10
Dex: 11
Int: 21
Wis: 11
Cha: 9

Real Life:

Str: 10
Con: 12
Dex: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 14

[Tyndmyr]

Human Factotum 1
Str 18
Con 18
Dex 18
Int 18
Wis 18
Cha 18

I'm trained in basically everything.

[PotatoNinja]

I'll take a bite at this one.

str 10 - I'm not strong, let's face it, i'm pretty average and have a tiny gut from eating to much fast food.

dex 12 - i'm not exactly that great with catching things, or dodging things. Alright at hand eye coordination on video games, but nothing stellar.

Con 13 or 14 - I run three five 5k's a week usually, my times arn't great (24 minutes?) but i can do it all without slowing down or pause.

Int 14 - I consider myself to be decently intelligent, my GPA in college is hovering around 3.3, and i have decent analytic skills

Wis 12 - i hardly have to study for anything, and my instinct tends to be more or less on track when it comes to day to day affairs, nothing amazing, but above the average herp derp dramma lamma crowd i see in college.

Cha - 10 seriously, i'm about average in every meaning on this one, i'm an ok public speakers, but i don't look all that amazing. I'm also horrible at small talk around most people i don't know.

I would definitely be an expert, with alot of knowledge skills, POLS major ftw!