Building: World of Elemental Warriors

[Weirdlet]

I've wanted to play or run a game using the Avatar D20 (http://sites.google.com/site/avatard20/) rules invented on these very boards for a good long while now- but I don't necessarily want to run an Avatar: the Last Airbender game. In fact, what I really want to do is see what using the elemental bending system does to an otherwise classic D&D setting, rather than traditional arcane/divine/melee goes and cries. Good fellows of the board, can you help me flesh out this premise?

Once upon a time, the ability to use all four elements was heartily abused in the long-ago wars of elven expansion. The gods decreed that that wasn't happening anymore, and that no one would ever be able to bend more than one element again- and further, that the elves would not bend at all. Nowadays, 'bending is considered a human magic, with the talent being found among other races usually indicating some human ancestry. But some factions- namely, a brash young elven prince whose star is rising behind the high walls of the elves' mysterious capital- think that the ability to not only regain their gods-stolen gifts, but to wield all four at once again can be recovered by delving into ancient secrets found beyond the current elven borders. His agents have broken the isolation in secret, and if he finds what he's looking for, all sorts of trouble may cut loose.

That established, I'm looking to figure out what other races should be in play, how they interact with each other and with the 'bending arts. Should there be other systems of magic that other races can play with? Should human cultures be divided along the elements they bend, or more cosmopolitan? I'm thinking there may be powerful ruling clans that tend to be all one element, but surprises turn up often depending on temperament.

Land Masses- I'm thinking the map this takes place on has a sea between larger land masses. Roughly central is a large island/small continent, with an archipelago and other islands to the north. Elves live in those islands, with some outlying colonial remnants in the archipelago and in places on the surrounding continents, but they're not holding nearly the territory they once did. Human cultures take up a lot of the central mini-continent, though they may be mixed with dwarves/orcs/what have you.

[Kenneth]

For humans and speration between the differing elemtlas, i think that Humans should be more cosmopolitan, and have certain familes lean towards a specific element and maybe even exile those who go with another element (example Human family A is known for its Earth Bending Daughter B goes Water Bending and is kicked out of the house for being a 'heretic')

Dwarves of course would be all about the Earth Bending and other races that have certain element ingrained in their mythologies should have teh same treatment.

also I think each element should coem with a typical personality type. Air being 'flighty' and very whimsical, Fire being passionate and aggresive, etc. Of course these are a typical, not that every Air bender is going to be such, just a typical more than likely.

[Domriso]

You can go a very common way of the different elements, such as Dwarves tending towards Earth-bending, and Elves tending towards Air-bending, but I would also allow a certain amount of variation.

For instance, take Half-Orcs. They tend to be emotional and brutish, if you take standard D&D, so Fire-bending fits them well. However, I could also easily imagine Earth-bending Half-Orcs who favor the strength of the soil (and perhaps some very powerful ones who fight without metal, using advanced Earth-bending to force other people into weaker roles).

Moving on, Gnomes also seem likely to have an affinity with Earth-bending, but while Dwarves would likely be more rigid, Gnomes are likely flighty and explosive. Honestly, I think Air-bending fits them best, but Fire- and Water-bending could also play into their strengths. Gnomes might be one of the better smattering races, being a race that tends to mix all sorts of bending into their repertoire.

From there, the last major race would be Halflings. Earth definitely does not seem their strong point, being all nomadic, but neither does Air, because they aren't all that flighty; just nomadic. Fire might work for them, but Water seems a better choice. And, it would make sense. Being nomadic, they would already be rather used to carrying things, and Water-bending is the only bending discipline that requires its component to be brought along (with the exception of Earth when at sea, but that isn't as hard).

...And, now that I have gone back and reread your original post, I realize I just wrote up a bunch of stuff that is not applicable. Well, I'll leave it here for posterity's sake, but I'll spoiler it. The points could be useful if you use some other races with bending talents.

For actual useful feedback, I'd make the bending a bit more cosmopolitan. I like the idea of Humans who take up elements more closely related to their own personalities rather than culture (though, culture would likely play into it). It also opens up the possibility of having areas which train the use of certain bending disciplines.

[Weirdlet]

I think that's really helpful, actually. ^^ This isn't really a world divided along the lines of bending, as in A:tLA proper- it's like a big city will have a dozen different dojos or monasteries each espousing a different discipline, and those with the right talents go to specific ones, and meanwhile there's folks out on the streets and in the countryside that use the same types of talents but learning it hands-on. Anyone anywhere could learn any kind of bending- but there are still strong tendencies based on attitude and environment.

My thoughts have been that elves might be mostly water-bender types, those that are far enough out on the edges of their turf to have some human blood in them. (I like the feel of them as being very staunchly isolationist in theory, but in practice it doesn't always work and the nobles find that very embarrassing, so what little bending they can claim is useful but regarded as low-class.)

Hm- I'm starting to like elves from the warmer northern islands, dwarves from the chillier southern mountains, humans and halflings having migrated in from the sides and the bigger continents and orcs probably caught in the middle, getting conquered/fighting back/getting kicked around again by the more disciplined cultures and managing to stick around by sheer bullheadedness.

[Domriso]

Cool, glad I could help.

I've been thinking more about the different kinds of societies which would develop if bending was the only form of magic in the world. Mostly, I can't really wrap my head around why other races wouldn't use it unless there was major social stigmas attached to them. It makes sense for the Elves, but what about the other races? For the Orcs, their short, brutish lifespans likely don't lend themselves to learning bending, but what about Dwarves?

While it would make a hell of a lot of sense for Dwarves to be benders, there are also a lot of reasons not to. If the heretical practices of the Elves were well known enough, then the rigid social hierarchy of the Dwarves likely would push them to not accept bending as a practice of their own. But, in those families in which bending was accepted, I bet they would become quite influential and powerful.

Moving to Halflings. To be perfectly honest, if you were to pick only one other race to use bending, I would suggest the Halflings. Their naturally secretive nature, their tendency to travel from place to place, and their physical ineptness (in comparison to other races) would seem to push bending to being a much more acceptable possibility for them. Hell, maybe they know some secrets that even the Elves lost. If you make them benders, however, I would suggest making them very concealing of their powers. It makes them more interesting.

Gnomes are harder to quantify, but I feel like their almost ADHD personalities would make them less likely to learn a bending discipline, but at the same time, I think that unless strict social taboos were set in place that they wouldn't have much against it either.

[Weirdlet]

Elves- at least, high elves- don't bend because they can't, and it pisses them off. Once they were strong waterbenders and air-walkers, fire-makers and stone-dancers- and now, the only ones who escape the gods-curse on their spirits are those who live as mortals do. (I may be borrowing the Dragon Age theme of elves living near humans age and die as they do, which is part of why the isolationism after conquest went sour)

Dwarves bend, but also craft- they are of the opinion that no one else earthbends as well as they, but some of those humans do- after a fashion- mimic some semblance of good stone-sense. Harumph.

(And any dwarf who ends up airbending is better off shaving his beard and living up on the crags with the scavenger birds, for clearly he has lost all sense of the stone. That's just hooliganism, that is.)

Humans grew into their gifts a thousand years ago- pshaw to the sore losers who say they were stolen. Clearly the gods taught them this magic to make their lives better, and better they have made it. Cities, clean waterways, good strong defenses, a swift courier system- what's not to love? Sure, there's roving bandits and petty barons making trouble here and there, but that's what hired soldiers are for!

Halflings have probably known the secret waterways and flown the breeze for countless ages- anytime someone has tried to smash them, they melt and trickle away, never staying where they're unwelcome- and taking their trade and gossip with them, until the tyrants' good fortune ran out and they'd trickle right back in in their wake.

Orcs have long felt the strength of rock in their bones and fire in their breath. It's a rare warrior who's got the patience to do more than spit sparks or pick up a boulder and throw it, but sometimes there's an old man or woman in the woods who'll kick you in the teeth until you get it right.

Gnomes- probably don't exist. Some folks have a fondness for them, I don't feel a strong need for them in this instance. We can have mad inventors without them.

[Weirdlet]

Another thing that occurs to me, is that with the use of strictly elemental psychokinesis, rather than traditional arcane and divine magic, that changes what sorts of critters are available to chuck at adventurers. A lot of undead, especially incorporeal types, become a problem when there are no clerics, and the only being in the world that can deal with 'angry spirits' doesn't exist in this campaign-world. It's been recommended to me to look at Green Ronin's Skull & Bones for more shamanic classes with their take on voodoo- I've looked, and it's interesting, but I'm not sure it would fit in here.

Are there other variants out there that might work to deal with the spirit world without getting into high magic, or should I perhaps include some feats or a prestige class that would let someone treat bending energy as 'magic'/holy for purposes of dealing with ghosts or undead?

[Domriso]

I would suggest just leaving it. I've never quite found a shamanic class that really captured the essence of the idea for me, and making undead scarier isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Mephibosheth]

First, despite my objections to this sort of thing while we were designing that Avatar d20 system, I now like this idea a lot. If you ever run a pbp in your world, let me know. ;)

I think the relationship between the races and the bending disciplines should go hand-in-hand with the role you want those races to play in the world, and that you shouldn't be afraid to play with the standard racial characteristics. I agree with your decision to make bending of all disciplines at least theoretically available to anyone of any race except elves. I also think it might be interesting to divorce bending and personality slightly, so that you get benders who have all sorts of mindsets bending in different ways.

Another thing to think about is how one becomes a bender. In the show, there is an element of chance and genetics (for lack of a better term) involved. Those without a natural talent for bending cannot learn to bend through shear hard work and training. That might not be the case in your world. Bending might be more like monastic or martial disciplines in that it can be learned by anyone who wants to devote the time and energy to doing so. If you go that route, it might be interesting to link bending to the character's environment. Characters who grow up on a river or ocean would be more likely to learn waterbending and those who learn another discipline will tailor their bending style to a semi-aquatic environment, for example. An airbender who grew up in the mountains might focus more on personal mobility and agility (useful for climbing, jumping on rocks, and avoiding deadly falls) than on blasting opponents around with air blasts or using air shields to avoid projectiles. I dunno, just something I thought of.

On the issue of magic-related creatures, I think the solution needs to depend on your tolerance for magic-like abilities in the world. When I first posted the version 1.0 benders, I got a PM from someone who wanted me to work on designing positive and negative energy benders. Obviously their abilities would seem more overtly magical than standard bending, but you could use the same class chassis to create these benders if that was a route you wanted to go. Otherwise, I agree that perhaps either re-fluffing the creatures and abilities("undead" animated by bloodbending perhaps) or simply going with more mundane opponents seems like the way to go.

Finally, just in case you're interested, I did want to mention that the Avatar d20 system, as I'm sure you've noticed, still has a few kinks. It also doesn't do a very good job of dealing with a setting where bending isn't the only form of magic, especially if magic items are available. If you decide to go with other forms of magic alongside bending, you might want to check out this variant system (http://theanteheroes.com/Avatar%20d20/BendingChapter.pdf) designed on the brilliantgameologists forums by a group of posters who wanted to adapt the Avatar d20 rules to a more magical, less canon, setting. In some ways, it's more complete and better designed, though it still suffers from the intense complexity that is, I feel, the many flaw of Avatar d20 version 2.0. That said, it's well-made and could be another resource for you.

Hope that helps! I'm definitely going to keep watching this thread.

Mephibosheth

[Weirdlet]

Thank you very much^^

My interest in making sure that there are both viable undead and viable ways of dealing with them is that, while interaction was limited, the spirit world seemed to be really important to the background of the show. The planar composition of a setting is usually pretty important, and it's really flavorful- so I want players here to have a chance at interacting with such things. Plus, ghost stories are fun^^

Add in the fact that there's been major wars in times past, and there should probably be places where the spirits are cranky and 'blighting' an area, maybe making the animals act strange or possessed- someone with shamanic knowledge (say, points in said knowledge skill) might be able to figure out how to cleanse such a place, or lay a soul to rest who hasn't quite figured out that life has passed them by. Perhaps the only real danger from the incorporeal things should be that they make a place creepy, and can disturb corporeal critters into becoming dangerous, thus no one needs to have 'magic' in order to hit them- and you need to keep those critters off the one doing the ritual to stop the haunting.

That said, I really like the progression of high-quality, rather than magical, weapons in the Avatar supplement. I think that magic items shouldn't be something that can be actively pursued in the manner of 'I've got x thousand gold pieces from my share of the loot, I need something that'll give me this bonus or that ability'. Market day with the PCs might be flavored as 'there's stalls that cater to the students from the university's bending classes, you might find gloves with good grip or finely-crafted gliders there.'

[Mephibosheth]

Aha. I see what you're getting at. How 'bout something like this:

First, you create a short feat chain that gives the character limited abilities to perceive and/or interact with the spirit world. See Invisibility/True Seeing effects (usable only against spirit creatures) or dodge bonuses to AC against incorporeal touch attacks, things like that. Perhaps a high-level feat that allows limited travel to the spirit world, like Iroh's rumored spirit world adventure.

Then you create two PrCs using one or more of these feats as prerequisites; one which specializes in co-existing with or banishing restless spirits (helping them solve their problems like in the Spirit World episodes from season 1 or attacking them and driving them away) and another that specializes in manipulating them for (usually but not necessarily) nefarious purposes, summoning or controlling incorporeal undead and other spirit creatures, and other things along that line.

You could base these PrCs on already-existing content (spirit shaman class features come immediately to mind, especially for the accommodating/banishing class) or create completely new content, but you'd be able to flavor everything to fit within the limits of "magic" in your setting. They're not casting spells, their simply using their natural sensitivity to the spirit world or however you choose to fluff it. Plus, you could use these PrCs for characters like Guru Pathik and Madame Wu who don't bend but definitely have some special abilities.

[Weirdlet]

Sweetness! That is exactly what I was looking for.

[Mephibosheth]

Another, somewhat related, idea that might be interesting would be to make a feat that essentially grants the spirit shaman's spirit guide class feature; an invisible, personal spirit guardian that aids the character in specific ways related to the character's and the spirit guide's personalities. It would obviously need to be amped up, since the spirit shaman ability as written doesn't actually give you any abilities. You could use the variant spirit shaman ability here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8626515&postcount=3), perhaps with a modified list of SLAs, since some of them (I'm looking at you, Produce Flame) would be inappropriate for the setting. Or you could make your own abilities: bonuses to attack and damage rolls in certain situations (the spirit guide subtly nudging your strikes so they hit hard and accurate), bonuses to AC and Reflex saves (spirit guide early warning system), stuff like that. Anything you want really.

[Omeganaut]

Also, I'd have elementals be a part of the setting, especially if something is upsetting the balance. They could be some or most of your spirits, and could be affected by bending but not by normal attacks. It fits nicely in with the elemental bending (although I'd just have the basic types of elementals, more complex wouldn't mesh with the four elements in bending.)

Another thing, have you thought about how you might allow characters (villians or PC's) to get access to multiple bending types, and how that would work mechanically. Perhaps a prestige class would be appropriate, or even a gestalt maybe?

[Weirdlet]

I'm thinking that getting into multiple bending types is something that is practically mythical in the day and age of this setting- the gods basically forbade anyone from bending more than one at a time, after that hoorah with the Wars of Elven Expansion and the world domination and such. One of the main antagonist fellows is going to be seeking a way to regain that ability, though, and I would like to have a system in place beyond simply DM fiat that explains how he's trying to go about that.

That said, I have had the names of two legendary figures in my head that may be interesting to explore- the Prince of Fire and Water, and the Queen of Earth and Air. Perhaps these are the only two in the last many hundred years to have learned more than one bending type, and people may seek out whatever ancient knowledge they tapped to do so.

[Fouredged Sword]

What if corporial undead where ritualy bound elemental spirits locked in anguishing bodies? I would make a template for each element so you could have the same undead creature act difrently based on the bending ritual that created it.

I would make a feat that lets you basicly cast animate dead once per day at CL=HD and control 4xHd of undead. All undead are typed as your element, and require captureing a relevent elemental to bind into the target body.

Then make a PRC focuseing on this elemental necromancy.

This should be seen as a perversion of bending by almost everyone, but that doesn't stop people for reaching for power.