Pathfinder Druid Question

[foram3438]

I'll be playing a 1st lvl Human druid for the first time!!!! My stats are:
12 15 14 13 15 15

I took already Spell Focus (Conj) + Aug Summon Feats. My companion is an Ape but considering in changing.

I am planning on having a mix of melee + caster (summoner).

Here are my questions:
1) When you Beast Shape you retain your BAB/STR/DEX or do you get the STR/DEX mods of the new shape regardless of size? I find stupid changing into a Polar Bear w/ my STR of 12!!!! If my first guess is right, then I will have my STR be 15 and my CHA 12. Would this be wise?

2) I rolled my character as an Ape Shaman variant (Ultimate Combat Guide). If I understood correctly the rules, I can not shift into animal form until 6th lvl instead of 4th?!?!?! Is this correct?

3) Besides a few perks and totems as a Shaman, is there REALLY an advantage in being a Shaman? Is it worth waiting two more level to shift @ -2 lvl for non-simians in my case???

4) Reason I took Ape as companion is simply b/c of the three options as a Shaman and ape has the reach and large size @ 4th lvl!! as a Shaman. I guess Cats do the same in that respect but no Shaman variety.

5) Why waiting until 6th lvl for Natural Spell??

6) Feats I am considering:
Multiattack, Two-weapon Fighting, Natural Spell, Extended Spell, Toughness, Death from Above, Death or Glory, FlankingFoil, Aspect of the Beast, Improved Share Spell.

Answers and comments are greatly appreciated. Also, any other advice is welcome in terms of having a buffed Druid.

[Jeraa]

1) When using wildshape, you retain all of your normal abilities, and gain whatever the Beast Shape 1 spell gives you. In the case of a medium animal, that is +2 strength and +2 natural armor. You do not gain the abilities scores of whatever you change into.

This was (probably) done for balance reasons. Some animals were always chosen over others when wildshaping, so Pathfinder just made it so that whatever form you take, you get the same ability boosts.

2) Correct. If you are an ape shaman, you do not get the druids wildshape ability until 6th level instead of 4th.

5) Natural Spell requires you to already have the wild shape class feature. A normal druid gets this at 4th level, but his next available feat choice is at 5th level, so he has to wait until then to take the feat. An ape shaman doesn't get the wildshape feature until 6th level, but has to wait until 7th level when he gets his next feat.

[foram3438]

THX Jeraa for clarifying my first two and fifth points...make sense the waiting for the Nat Spell feat..... :smallwink:

[gartius]

1) you are correct it acts as beast shape-id switch strength and charisma scores round

2) my reading is you still get wildshape at level 4-however as your connection grows greater to your totem animal you put other animals on the backburner so they become weaker and the apes become stronger.

3) when you reach lvl 10 its does lose its luster as no more beast shape -however ask your dm if he would allow you to become a ape elemental as elementals can look like anything they want.

5) im not sure what you mean-the prerequisites for natural spell allow you to take it at any time from 5th level onwards

6) check out
superior summoning-brings in an extra monster each time you summon,
moonlight summons-Summoned creatures are immune to confusion and sleep effects, and their natural weapons are treated as silver
powerful shape-you are one size larger when wild shaped
planarwildshape-apply the celestial/fiendish template when you wildshape

[foram3438]

THX Gartius!!!! What is the source of the Feats you mentioned. I read the Core, Advanced Players, and Ultimate Combat and did not saw those (maybe I missed them). Or is it in the Ultimate Magic one?

[gartius]

most of them are from ultimate magic-but you can check them out on the srd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/feat-tree) the planar one was from ultimate combat

[Stone Heart]

2) my reading is you still get wildshape at level 4-however as your connection grows greater to your totem animal you put other animals on the backburner so they become weaker and the apes become stronger.



You do not get wild shape at level 4 as any of the shamans, it changes to level 6. However you treat the wild shape of the animal you are a shaman of (in this case apes) as two levels higher for this, so at level 6 you can transform into any animal as a level 4 druid would, but you can transform into an ape as a level 8 druid would.

[foram3438]

THX Stone Heart...yep..you are right...I do think that is how it works...

[gartius]

do you have a link to back up?

as the shamans say nothing about wild shape coming later-you still get WS at lvl 4 as its not replaced and the WS only states it changes at lvl 6.

[foram3438]

I see both your points...
On page 22 under Alternate Class Features of the UCG where it explains the Archetypes, it states: " Each alternate class feature presented in an archetype replaces a specific class feature from its parent class. " I think the UCG failed to clarify the WS. It should have included WS is not gained at 4th lvl (if that is what Pathfinder ment) they just say that at 6th lvl it counts @ -2lvl for non-simians and at +2 for simian. Soooo...depending how is ruled both your options are possible.

[foram3438]

Oh...I also think you loose the ability to shift into Elementals and Plants as a Shaman at lvl 6. THe trait says that if you shift as a simian you do it at +2 (which is lvl 8). As a regular druid, at level 8 can do huge or diminutive animal, medium elemental or small/meduim plant. As a shaman lvl 6 you can only do huge/diminutive ape and no elemental/plant b/c you will be at lvl 4. If this is correct than it is a "hindrance" once you get to level 8 shaman you will be lvl 6 for non-simian creatures (plants/elementals).
Confusing.

[Stone Heart]

do you have a link to back up?

as the shamans say nothing about wild shape coming later-you still get WS at lvl 4 as its not replaced and the WS only states it changes at lvl 6.

Hmm, I suppose it does not explicitly state it, I guess it was just how I read it. It seems odd to lose an ability you already had though. Like you were capable of 5th level wildshaping into anything, and then 6th level you aren't. But RAW you are correct it says nothing of replacing the ability.

[gartius]

Hmm, I suppose it does not explicitly state it, I guess it was just how I read it. It seems odd to lose an ability you already had though. Like you were capable of 5th level wildshaping into anything, and then 6th level you aren't. But RAW you are correct it says nothing of replacing the ability.

yeah but as i said i think thats due to as your connection with your animal grows greater you push all other creatures back in favour for your animal.



Oh...I also think you loose the ability to shift into Elementals and Plants as a Shaman at lvl 6. THe trait says that if you shift as a simian you do it at +2 (which is lvl 8). As a regular druid, at level 8 can do huge or diminutive animal, medium elemental or small/meduim plant. As a shaman lvl 6 you can only do huge/diminutive ape and no elemental/plant b/c you will be at lvl 4. If this is correct than it is a "hindrance" once you get to level 8 shaman you will be lvl 6 for non-simian creatures (plants/elementals).


thats correct-however depending on your gm he may let you be an elemental as elemental's can be any animal/creature so you may be able to swing it.

it does mean you are waiting otherwise for WS to cap out at lvl 14 and it loses its effectiveness at lvl 8 (as thats when you can use beast shape 3 for apes)

i suppose it all depends on the quality of the bonus feats and what you want from an animal companion

[foram3438]

One last question, how can you communicate and give orders to your companion when you WS into a different creature (example companion is ape and I WS into eagle) besides casting speak w/animals prior to WS?

[foram3438]

I need some clarification..I went into a Paizo forum w/ no luck.

1) When doing a Shaman, do you loose the ability to WS into plants and elementals or you can do it but at a -2 lvl adjustment starting at lvl 6?

2) At lvl 6 you can WS as lvl 8 for your totem creature. Is this the MAX a shaman can GO? At lvl 8 supposedly you can WS as lvl 10 for your totem but you can't b/c normal druids can't (Beast Shape IV= magical beasts). So basically the shaman reaches a plateau for Totem WS???