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View Full Version : Shadowrun Rules, Starcraft 2 Setting and Options



Sarone
2011-09-04, 06:55 PM
Ok, due to a miss reading on my part, I'm removing most of the homebrew rules in World/Setting Design to here for the Starcraft universe using the Shadowrun rules.

With that, I'm reposting the information from the last person so it'll be easier trying to get the ball rolling on this.


Ai, that's difficult... There have been Starcraft adaptations to several system, among which d20, but all of them home-brew, and all of them immense.
Starcraft has a lot of lore put into it, and the heavy reliance on machinery doesn't make things much easier. If you really want to do this, then I'd say: Go ahead, BUT it's going to be a lot of work; more than you might be used to.

Here's a Starcraft wikipedia page, which contains tons and tons of information.
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_Wiki

And here's a list of search results for Starcraft on GitP:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1591005

Thanks for the help. However, the search you're linking doesn't show anything worthwhile.

I admit that it can be challenging, but from what I have seen is that Level Systems (D20, D&D, and the like) put too much emphasis on levels and rules.

With Shadowrun, it's alot simpler as far as leveling goes. A new gamer is no better off than someone who has been in the campaign for 20 sessions, even though the Veteran will have more karma points to spend.

Not too mention, I want a system where everyone doesn't have to show up for every mission (would be recommended so they can get more experience and other goodies). I can explain they're off doing another mission, tinkering with gear, visiting family, so on and so forth. This is more to do with the IRL fact of being in the military and locate don a military post.

Right off the bat is races. Base will be human with two "variants" as far as size and advantages/disadvantages (those "afflicted" with Giantism and Dwarfism).

Because there isn't any true "metahumans" in SC2, I have decided to introduce two alternatives To the "regular" human: Dwarfism and Giantism. I want both to be attractive to a player that doesn't want to play a regular human with out going into the magic fantasy that Shadowrun provides.

In order to come up with a balanced deal, I'm taking a look at where the two will be most reminescent of as far as Metahumans in Shadowrun: The Dwarf and The Troll mate types.

Dwarf and Dwarfism

Whether you didn't eat your vegetables when you were younger or you parents of such short stature you lived up to it, you're short. Standing up 4 and a half feet tall, you're used to being looked over. When dealing with marines (Confederate, Dominion, or other), you're use to comments about being stepped on and turned into a football for the guys to punt around. Luckily for you, it also means you can get out of situations that bigger folks can't, using pipes, ventilation shafts, and other tunnels as means to escape. Not too mention, when it comes to equipment and suits, it's not too hard to get prosthetics to help with the strengh and size problems.

Dwarves in Shadowrun are short, stocky, strong, and tough, as well as having Thermographic vision. I'm going for an opposite here.

Dwarfism in Starcraft runs along the side of gnomes and halfings, using the D&D races as examples.

With that as an idea, I'm going with this for the basic stat line for Dwarves in Starcraft 2.


Body 1/5 (7)
Agility 2/7 (10)
Reaction 2/7 (10)
Strength 1/5 (7)
Charisma 1/6 (9)
Intuition 1/6 (9)
Logic 1/6 (9)
Willpower 1/6 (9)


Add to it small size, which means that a Dwarf will need to pay for/use a smaller suit and weapons, though a dwarf can fit inside regular Marine armor using computerized prosthetics that allow the (N)PC to manipulate bigger equipment and weapons. The advantage here for dwarves is that hits to arms and legs aren't as dangerous beyond losing the use of the limb.

Because of the prevalence of automatic and heavy weapons, as well to reflect the fact the dwarf is smaller, I'm adding an -2 to recoil modifiers for shooting multiple shots. Basically, unless you have a weapon that is sized and made for you, or you are wearing prosthetics/suit that helps absorb recoil, you shouldn't handle the bigger stuff.

Inspiration for this was the tech Heaven's Devils that helped develop the Powered Armor that will become the Firebat armor.

Looking at what the Dwarf Metatype cost in build points, and what I'm going for, I believe a cost of 15 should do quite well.

Trolls and Giantism

Either your momma put growth hormone in your food or both parents were members of the Confederate Body Builder team, you are big. Huge by some standards. Standing 7 feet tall and a good 250 pounds with hands the size of somepeople's chest, you are used to jokes about the weather up there. You can intimidate armed marines while unarmed and wearing a tshirt and shorts. Heavy weapons aren't as big a problem when it somes to using them, though weapons designed for smaller hands do make it a pain in the rear to use. Unfortunately, your size makes you a bit clumsy at times and and regular armor doesn't fit you. Precision equipment is either left others with smaller hands or the use of cybernetic assistants. In addition, you have a tendency to take more hits, but the damage they cause don't cause as much discomfort for you.

Trolls in Shadowrun are big, tall, strong, and tough. Unfortunately, mental stats leave something to desire, since we're dealing with something that affects only physical stats. Not too mention, as some people in my old group mentioned, not alot of players use trolls due to the 40 build point price tag for using the Metatype.


Body 3/8 (12)
Agility 1/5 (7)
Reaction 1/5 (7)
Strength 3/8 (12)
Charisma 1/6 (9)
Intuition 1/6 (9)
Logic 1/6 (9)
Willpower 1/6 (9)


Add to it Large size, where the (N)PC will be spending a good half again for armor as well a be considerably bigger (ie: A regular human can wear Marine armor while a human with Giantism needs armor that looks like Firebat/Maruader armor). Small pistols and the like will be an issue, though to counter balance it and reflect the strengh, I'm doing the opposite for the dwarf and adding +2 recoil modifier, meaning the only thing that will be an issue is the really heavy assault weapons. To reflect the greater bone density and mass, I'm adding the Trolls +1 natural armor representing how much tougher he is. Reach is thrown in as well, which may not be as helpful outside of a melee.

Inspiration for this is Tychus Findlay and the photo of him from Heaven's Devils and him in power armor and weilding a minigun through the Wings of Liberty.

Looking at advantages for this character, specificaly the bonuses for using heavy weapons, natural armor and recoil, as well as reach, and the lack of reductions in mental stats, as well as the disadvantages of being bigger and unable to use lighter weapons with out modification I'm going for 30 BPs for players wanting to take Giantism.

What do you all think? Giantism giving too much for too little BP cost? Dwafism needing some tweaks?

Protoss will not be used for too much, but will have a play after the initial setup. Zerg will be a no for the campaign due to the QoB still being around unless there's a really, very good reason, isn't too over the top, and actually makes alot of sense. This is also to take into account that the players will have a bigger than average part in the campaign from the RTS point of view.

Classes will probably stay the same for the nonmagic users. Magic users will go under psionic users. I'm also condensing the various "magic and technomancer" abilites into psionic abilities (that's going be fun, though I'm goingwith the idea of nothing too flashy (calling spirits and such)). I am considering, due to Protoss being introduced to the campaign shortly after starting it, the terrans being taught various aspects of psionic abilities. From a tech stand point to combat applications as well as schooling and training.


Also, would it be too much if I state from the get go that players who do the whole WoW approach to gaming will be slaughtered in the final battle? (IE: I go to the quest giver, I recieve tehquest, I go complete the quest, I return to Quest giver, I lather, rinse, and repeat without investing into my character beyond putting karma points into various skills that are only there for killing the enemy. Basically, a mook for the bad guy or, from the RTS PoV, "Marine #6285 reporting for getting slaughtered in a wave of zerg, sir!")

Any one else have advice before I start going a bit further?

Dryad
2011-09-05, 05:47 AM
I personally don't see why you would introduce Dwarfism and Giantism. I mean; 'playable races' are very prevalent among RPGs, yes, as a means to further customize, but I don't see their relevance here.
Protoss are understandable. Zerg are, too, even with Kerrigan running around like a mad woman, and the Overmind now finally dead. After all; as long as Kerrigan does not hold full control over the Swarm, there will be independent broods (broods that probably won't like being either assimilated or destroyed; they might send diplomats of some form or another).

Adding Giantism and Dwarfish just reeks of artificial implementation to stick true to the whole 'race' thing, while I don't think there is a need for such.


Also, would it be too much if I state from the get go that players who do the whole WoW approach to gaming will be slaughtered in the final battle?
That depends on your players. But linear questing can, in some cases, add to the role-play feel instead of diminishing it; especially when running military stories.
Of course you can discourage play like this, but just as your players cannot tell you how to write a story, you cannot dictate how your players play their characters.

Sarone
2011-09-05, 03:48 PM
While I do admit that it is artificial as far as races go, but I want to give a bit more variety besides playing human/terran and the protoss with out introducing new alien races.

The dwarfism/giantism is more like a neutral quality that won't count against the traits that are in the system currently.

I'm still brainstorming the Protoss. These guys are going to be introduced after the first few sessions of the game. This is mostly so that rules for Power Armor and various weapons (as well as Giantism and Dwarfism get their fair share of tweaks) can be playtested.

Also, has any one ever played a D20/Rifts/whatever version of Starcraft? How did it go for you? How did the creator of conversion go about various powers, critters, and problems that crop up?

Sarone
2011-09-06, 04:08 PM
Next up is Protoss.

I admit that I was at a loss when it came to these guys. It's like trying to make the Predator species or work the differences between Clan and Star League mechs.

Here's what I do know: The Protoss is big, standing at around 7 to 8 feet tall, have psionic abilities, racist at times, know it alls, and are extreme in maintaining the status quo for a long time in regards to castes and how each person should do stuff. They have no mouths and there is no official (as far as I know) dietary facts for me to use. However, one person tried going with Photosynthesis or the equivelent, so I'm tempted to go that route.

Since we know that the Protoss aren't very charismatic when dealing with anyone or anything. Diplomacy is more of trying to state facts and plans in the best fashion, so they can be/are more logical than Vulcans. In addition, they are/were very much into the status quo as well as various degrees of intolerance to each other and terrans (understandable). Needless to say, Charisma is very much a dump stat for these guys.

Physically, they can be tough, with size giving them an advantage in melee combat, which is how they mostly deal with enemies. Though they seem to be tougher when compared to a marine, this could be their technology helping them out big time. Reaction and Agility can be superior to humans. But they are extremely dependent on technology (both weapon and armor as well as robotic).

Now the mental stats. This might have a lot of variance between the various castes.

Psionics is another strength the protoss have and they make extreme use of it. I'm going for the idea they'll automatically know some defensive techniques/spells/abilities. Technology will help in refining and enhancing the spells and abilites (the psi blades, shields, some energy weapons, and some technology). Easily see this as magic and physical adepts from Shadowrun.

Willpower is tied to Psionics wince the more powerful abilities and spells will require a high will (remember Tassadar channeling the various psionic powers at the end of Starcraft?). This also helps with the hitpoints that the Protss get, since both Body and Willpower contribute to it.

Intuition and logic are next up. This can be a bit a hard. They could both be human level or a level lower for warriors (since they're base goal is to defend and aren't too concer about things outside of strategy, tactics, and how to defeat their enemies), human or a level above for the workers and dark templar (in order to maintain the equipment that the protoss have), and Judicators could be higher (though they may not use it at times and I'm half temted to leave them at worker levels).

Last is Charisma. yeah, it's going to be a dumpstat.

Before I assign stats, any one else want to chime in?

Dryad
2011-09-06, 04:34 PM
Protoss: I'd say Charisma is indeed their all-time low. Intelligence would be below human standards as well; they've been around for a long time, sure, but most of their technological advances were thanks to the Xel'Naga. Wisdom... They're a lot harder to anger than the Terran hot-heads, sure, but they're extremely xenophobic, and, apart from the Dark Templar faction, seem to be very sexist as well. Since the 'wisdom' concept and 'willpower' concept often overlap, this is a bit harder to say. Protoss are rigorous and unbending, and generally not open to new ideas... At all.

Protoss are powerful in form. In fact, they were bred for their bodies. They possess the Purity of Form that the Xel'Naga were looking for. Their physique rather than intelligence allows them to use their psionic abilities.

So I'd say: Protoss should have relatively high physical stats, and relatively low mental stats. They're not ingenious, they're not actually wise. They're not free-thinkers in general (though there are exceptions). They're not very adaptable.
In a fight, a Terran should have about an equal chance against a Protoss. Terran having a higher impact force, faster responses and much quicker wits, as well as the human quality or enraging, granting them high staying power, while the Protoss are just much tougher, stronger and bigger than most Terrans.

Sarone
2011-09-06, 05:11 PM
Protoss: I'd say Charisma is indeed their all-time low. Intelligence would be below human standards as well; they've been around for a long time, sure, but most of their technological advances were thanks to the Xel'Naga. Wisdom... They're a lot harder to anger than the Terran hot-heads, sure, but they're extremely xenophobic, and, apart from the Dark Templar faction, seem to be very sexist as well. Since the 'wisdom' concept and 'willpower' concept often overlap, this is a bit harder to say. Protoss are rigorous and unbending, and generally not open to new ideas... At all.

Protoss are powerful in form. In fact, they were bred for their bodies. They possess the Purity of Form that the Xel'Naga were looking for. Their physique rather than intelligence allows them to use their psionic abilities.

So I'd say: Protoss should have relatively high physical stats, and relatively low mental stats. They're not ingenious, they're not actually wise. They're not free-thinkers in general (though there are exceptions). They're not very adaptable.
In a fight, a Terran should have about an equal chance against a Protoss. Terran having a higher impact force, faster responses and much quicker wits, as well as the human quality or enraging, granting them high staying power, while the Protoss are just much tougher, stronger and bigger than most Terrans.

If the Terran is far enough away. But you are right in regards to them being Pure in Form.

Mental stats are a bit different. The warriors will have a higher will power due to beliefs, while Judicators will either be close to or just behind them, and the workers will be last. Outcasts will be a bit more different, running around the same deal that Judicators have.

Intelligence is divided into Intuition and Logic. Intuition is mental alertness, while Logic is about how much the character can learn and recall. With that, I can see human level or above bit above for the non warriors in Logic, while warriors might be below. Like wise, intuition will be low for warriors (they're not paid to think, just fight (I don't believe they get paid, actually)), while judicators might be higher while workers and outcasts being the highest due to their work/experiences.

Charisma is definetely going to be low, maybe not troll low (which they can max out naturally at 4), but I'm definetely thinking that Uncouth would be a species trait no matter which they want to look at it (though they can buy it off at character creation if they have a good enough backstory or with karma points). This doesn't add to it that them being aliens will be a problem to hostile or neutral humans due to them being, well, aliens, and the fact their talking to you with thier minds. Dude, that is so freaky!

Needless to say, those who are willing to talk to the Protoss or have experience with them (James Raynor) wouldn't have a penalty since they are used to the telepathy.

From what I'm seeing, Protoss will have a max of 5 in Intuition and Logic (maybe go higher for workers and lower for warriors), Charisma will either be 4 or 5 (but they'll be at a disadvantage due to negative qualities and being alien), while Willpower might be higher, at around 7 or 8, depending on the caste the individual is in.

Hate to say, but I'm seeing the Protoss costing upwards of 40 to 60 points depends on how everything goes.

Sarone
2011-09-07, 02:51 PM
THE PROTOSS

Ok, here is how I am going for the Protoss Stat wise, based on the four castes that I know of.

Protoss Templar (Warrior)

Body 3/8 (12)
Agility 2/7 (10)
Reaction 2/7 (10)
Strength 3/8 (12)
Charisma 1/5 (7)
Intuition 1/5 (7)
Logic 1/4 (6)
Willpower 3/8 (12)
Psionics 1/6 (9)


Protoss Judicator (Leader)

Body 2/7 (12)
Agility 2/7 (10)
Reaction 2/7 (10)
Strength 1/6 (9)
Charisma 1/5 (7)
Intuition 1/5 (7)
Logic 1/5 (7)
Willpower 3/8 (12)
Psionics 2/7 (10)


Protoss Khalai (Worker)

Body 2/7 (10)
Agility 2/7 (10)
Reaction 2/7 (10)
Strength 2/7 (10)
Charisma 1/5 (7)
Intuition 1/5 (7)
Logic 1/6 (9)
Willpower 2/7 (10)
Psionics 1/6 (9)


Protoss Nerazim (Dark Templar)

Body 3/8 (12)
Agility 2/7 (10)
Reaction 2/7 (10)
Strength 2/7 (10)
Charisma 1/5 (7)
Intuition 1/5 (7)
Logic 1/5 (7)
Willpower 3/8 (12)
Psionics 1/6 (9)



Like it's been mentioned, with the protoss being divided up into castes, the protoss characters can represent millenia of tradition that has only recently been sundered by the Zerg, the rise of the Terrans, and the return of the Dark Templar. Also, they are tougher than Terrans, but due to Cultural problems, they are not quite as smart. As such, the Protoss also start off with the following qualities from the main rulebook:


ALL:
Psionic Adept
Uncouth

Templar, Judicator, Khalai
Astral Beacon

Nerazim
Astral Chameleon



What do you think of this?

Dryad
2011-09-07, 08:25 PM
Well; the Nerazim aren't all that Psionic anymore; they've clamped themselves, after all.
I don't think their agility should be quite that high on max, by the way. I'm not actually familiar with Shadowrun, but [...]/7 seems on the high (and thus expensive) side.
Other than that: I can fully agree. :)

...
I think, if you continue with this homebrew, you might just get me to play Shadowrun as well.

Sarone
2011-09-07, 10:06 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking agility and reaction might be a bit high, especially since they are also going to be large sized and the equivelant to the Giantism that I created for the Terrans.

As far as Shadowrun, it is an interesting system. I was not too impressed at first, but after a couple of sessions it became better.

The biggest difference between D&D and Shadowrun is that you don't use any other dice besides the six siders. You just need quite a bunch of them (a twelve pack should be enough for beginning games).

Second difference is character creation, and there are several big differences that I'll cover. Just note that it will basically take the entire first meeting for you to create your characters.

First you will notice about character creation is attributes/abilities. Instead of seperate areas for attribute creation, skill points, feats, and the like, the CC has it where you draw from a pool of Build Points. Up to half the build points are used to create attributes (divided into the eight areas already shown for the Giantism and Dwarfism) and the rest is used on skills, knowledges, qualities (good and bad), money, and, depending what your character is, martial arts, spells, and other considerations. Also tied into this is races, of which there is only 5 and they each are based off of humans except for some differences.

One thing to bring up; there is no "classes" and no class levels. Like I mentioned above, this game is very much under the idea that a new player and a twenty session veteran player will still have the same chance to critically make or glitch (fumble), even though the veteran will have more dice to throw around. Believe me when I say that it has happened before, where the GM had a "villian" that was designed to take on our racer character. I mean full on, to the max, taking every possible advantage he could take. Very first test of teh contest between the two, and the GM rolls all ones. Critical glitch. Story wise, the guy was showing off his hotrod ride too much and blew the engine when he hit the gas.:biggrin:

This leads to the next part, which deals with the campaign. The system uses Karma points, which is used as a way to measure experience as well as "level up" your character. Karma points can be spent on virtually everything, from spells to attribute increases. Karma points can and will be given for a number of things; participating, bringing food/cooking, highly memorable moments, unexpected turn of events, completing the mission, and being the mvp of the session. This also means that players who miss session can have it where their character was doing another mission, visiting family/friends, tinkering with a project, going to class, or anything that the the player and GM can come up with. Hell, a player can show up the first session, create a character, then be gone for a month or three (that's what happened to mine when I went for month long training with the unit), and still come back with thier character with a few karma points to reperesent the game time that passed. In D&D, that's just a pain in the neck, especially since character leveling could take a while.

Like any system, there is a learning curve. Unlike D&D, though, that curve for Shadowrun starts a bit steeper, but quickly flattens out over time. Not too mention, you don't have the magic/non-magic rivalry that D&D has, since each role isn't all powerful.

So, besides Dryad, how does the Homebrew for Starcraft sit with every one?

(Also, I'm thinking about keeping track of the number of views when I post that there's a benchmark to work with. At this time, the thread has been viewed 124 times.:smile:)

Dryad
2011-09-08, 07:26 AM
Okies; that sounds like it has some similarities with the White Wolfe d10 systems, which is good. :)
Awaiting replies from other people, then. :P

Sarone
2011-09-08, 02:46 PM
Okies; that sounds like it has some similarities with the White Wolfe d10 systems, which is good. :)
Awaiting replies from other people, then. :P

:eek: :redface: Nothing against you, Dryad. I greatly appreciate what you're doing in helping out. It's just 150 views and no one else responding leaves me a bit worrisome, I guess.

Dryad
2011-09-08, 05:00 PM
No; I fully understand. It's terribly dissuageous to continue on with such a humongous undertaking when there's seemingly no interest.
One of the reasons I keep posting is to bump the topic, actually. :P

I had an idea for the Zerg...
See; Zerg are generally rather intelligent, and they're fast. Their overminds are incredibly wise, beyond any other race, but due to their hive-mind make-up, they do not require any willpower of their own (which is why the Dark Voice could so easily manipulate them into doing its bidding, I suppose).

Hydralisks are the most dangerous ordinary zerg around. Not just because of their spine attacks, which are pretty gruesome in themselves, but also because they purposely commit technical sabotage to both Terran and Protoss technology alike. They sneak into ships, buildings and other things, disable security systems, disable life-support systems, hack into mainframes, steal information and all that sort of thing. This should be a sign that some Zerg are extremely intelligent.
The physical stats of Zerg, though.. Is far trickier. Some are fast, some are strong, some are tough... It's not easy to create a baseline for such a versatile species, and that might actually be a rather good reason to just do away with them as playable species.
Another reason is equipment. Zerg don't use it. One way to solve this problem is to use biomorph equipment and living weapons in much the same way as the warhammer 40K Tyranids (who've probably been the inspiration for the Zerg in the first place. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids)

So yeah; conclusion: Zerg should have very low Willpower. I know, I know, that's not much, is it?

Sarone
2011-09-08, 05:31 PM
Zerg is going to be both easy and troublesome. I have come up with two types, and it also depends on some external factors.

First is regular zerg. Zerglings, Hydralisks, Mutalisks, and that's about it besides the suicide bombers, even though there is few of them. While dangerous if they are up close, and even far away with the hydralisk, they are pretty easy to take out. It's just that they go by what they are known for: swarming. Still, they are relatively easy to take out, though not if they are underestimated. Reference the Fall of Kerrigan, when Kerrigan is still a ghost and she gets betrayed by Mengsk.

The next is the elite zerg. Hunter killer Hydralisks, Devouring One Zergling, and others. These are the ones with enhanced biologies, being bigger, stronger, tougher, and gernerally all around dangerous when faced on the battle field. These will also be the ones that will have the venom/poison anilities that some of the more "mundane" zerg might have access to down the line. Basically, the hydralisks that were after General Warfield will be elites.

Last is the modifiers. First and foremost will be Kerrigan. With her presence on the battlefield, the Zerg will be driven to higher heights of suicidal attacks in order to achieve goals. At least, that's my take on it.

One last thing covering the larger Zerg: while the bigger creatures are deadly, that doesn't mean that they can't be defeated. While direct damage can kill them, just remember that is not the only way. If you can slow them down, go faster, or be accurate, you can defeat something like an Ultralisk by aiming for legs, eyes, heads, arms, joints, and such. This be important, because this can quickly turn the "size" factor against the Zerg.