[3.5] General question regarding Outsider-type PCs

[TheJudicator]

Alright, I hope you guys can help me out here.

I'm a player in a small group running a home-crafted 3.5 campaign. Currently, I am an Aasimar cleric of St. Cuthbert (A "Judge", if you will), with the intent of going Half-Celestial as a way of unlocking my true potential.

I am aware that most Aasimars...and all Half-Celestials, for that matter...contain the Outsider creature type, most PCs also having the Native subtype. I recall seeing mention in the Monster Manual towards the back (page 313) that Outsiders, among other things, are granted "proficiency with simple and martial weapons, plus any other weapons mentioned in its entry". also included are the HD, BaB, saves, etc etc.

But back to the point of my posting...this proficiency with simple and martial weapons...for an Outsider-type PC, does this still apply, possibly superceding proficiencies granted by class? Does the Native subtype cancel this out? Or, on a slightly related note, would being a cleric of St. Cuthbert normally severely restrict my weapon choices to a simple mace?

Also slightly related, my DM is kind of finicky about players referencing anything other than a PHB (despite half the party using stuff from the MM...odd). If this descrepancy is found, how would one approach this situation without, say, an upsetting event happening? I know it's not a mechanical question, so I'll just open that up for opinions.

Disclaimer: this post is by no means meant to be used for discussion regarding optimization. If I were to do that, I wouldn't be going Half-Celestial :P

If someone else has done this discussion, feel free to point me in the right direction and lock the thread.

[Flickerdart]

Weapon proficiencies never "cancel out". Otherwise, anybody who took a PrC would immediately lose all weapon proficiencies! Your Cleric proficiencies, in this case, are simply made redundant by your better Outsider proficiencies (which the Native subtype doesn't cancel).

If you want to make a smooth transition into Half-Celestial, you can use the transition racial class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) here.

[Malimar]

I have heard some argue that you only get the Outsider proficiencies if you have actual Outsider hit dice, which aasimar and half-celestials do not.

I don't know if I would make that argument myself, and I don't know where the text supporting it is, if anywhere. But the argument is out there.

[sreservoir]

it's a trait, not a feature. you get it even without hd.

(don't cite me on that, though.)

[Greenish]

it's a trait, not a feature. you get it even without hd.

(don't cite me on that, though.)You can always cite SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) on it, though. You don't need RHD to get Darkvision, you don't need RHD to get the weapon proficiencies.

[Jopustopin]

I'm of the "No they don't" camp and my reasoning is pretty much that it doesn't make sense and the Bestiary entry for both races includes a section for using them as PCs. It specifically states what abilities and features that the race does gain. Weapon proficiencies of any kind are not listed in either entry.

I think the stronger argument can be made that they do get martial weapon proficiencies but I do not think that it was intended that they do. :smallcool: