Good build for a skill monkey/possible caster starting at 7

[danzibr]

So I'm about to start a campaign at level 7. Here's the party:

male Dwarf Barbarian
female Dwarf other front-liner (these two are married)
female Aasimar Favored Soul (I believe Aasimar, anyways)
female Goliath Paladin
me

So we're lacking a skill monkey and arcane caster. The Favored Soul is probably going buffs and heals. I'm open to anything, but I don't want to be OP, preferably flavorful. I'm thinking straight up Factotum, but I want to see what others suggest. I've also thought of Marshal. Or a Wizard specializing in rays.

Also, all books are available, starting with normal money, preferably no LA, possibly going up to 20, 32 point buy, etc etc.

[Thespianus]

I would love to play a Beguiler of some sort, maybe a Gnome or a Strongheart Halfling, in a setup like that.

Skillmonkey: Check. Caster: Check. Flavorful: Check. ;)

[deuxhero]

Beguiler is good for what you are doing.

For race, try a somersault Changeling or Whisperer Gnome, simple because I can't think of anything exoticish other that isn't used by your group and has viable stat mods for you.


"preferably no LA"


2 of your allies have LA?

[hex0]

Factotum is a viable option for sure (maybe prestige out after 8th level), Spellthief+Wizard with master spellthief would work as well. I would play these two options before Beguiler.

If you are playing a gnome, ask if you can apply the gnome paragon to Beguiler instead of bard maybe. Also sadowcraft mae

[danzibr]

"preferably no LA"


2 of your allies have LA?
Yup, 2 of them do. I don't want one though.

How about Lurk? I've always been interested in psionics.

[sreservoir]

psychic rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) is generally considered better.

[Thespianus]

Factotum is a viable option for sure (maybe prestige out after 8th level), Spellthief+Wizard with master spellthief would work as well. I would play these two options before Beguiler.

Or Spellthief+Beguiler, going into Unseen Seer to gain Advanced Learning for unusual Beguiler spells. It's not as OP as a Wizard, but it makes for a great skillmonkey with more than a few tricks up his sleeve.

[Jopustopin]

Wizard Specializing with rays + Trapfinder:

I'd go with the following:

Human Spellthief 1/Conjurer 3 (Fighter Variant + Abrupt Jaunt)/Master Specialist 2/Spellwarp Sniper 1

Level 1: Point Blank Shot
Fighter Bonus Feat: Precise Shot
Human Bonus: Able Learner
Level 3: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Level 6: Master Spellthief

Abler Learner so you can keep whatever skills you need up. Master Specialist isn't necessary, it's just better IMO and you can finish it when you're done with spellwarp sniper. The 10th level ability is sick for a conjurer.

Books Used:

Abler Learner: Races of Destiny
Master Spellthief: Complete Scoundrel
Master Specialist: Complete Mage
Spellwarp Sniper: Complete Scoundrel
Spellthief: Complete Adventurer
Fighter Variant: Unearth Arcana
Abrupt Jaunt: PHB II

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Skillmonkey + Wizard casting:

Illumian (Krau/anything) Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ etc. With Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler you can apply 10/10 UM spellcasting toward Wizard. Illumians are Humanoid (Human) so they can take Able Learner, giving you the Beguiler class skill list for all levels. Use flaws if possible, and get Versatile Spellcaster so you can spend Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast Wizard spells you've learned. Get Split Ray and spend Beguiler spell slots to apply it to your Wizard spells via Augmented Casting.

[danzibr]

Wizard Specializing with rays + Trapfinder:

I'd go with the following:

Human Spellthief 1/Conjurer 3 (Fighter Variant + Abrupt Jaunt)/Master Specialist 2/Spellwarp Sniper 1

Level 1: Point Blank Shot
Fighter Bonus Feat: Precise Shot
Human Bonus: Able Learner
Level 3: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Level 6: Master Spellthief

Abler Learner so you can keep whatever skills you need up. Master Specialist isn't necessary, it's just better IMO and you can finish it when you're done with spellwarp sniper. The 10th level ability is sick for a conjurer.

Books Used:

Abler Learner: Races of Destiny
Master Spellthief: Complete Scoundrel
Master Specialist: Complete Mage
Spellwarp Sniper: Complete Scoundrel
Spellthief: Complete Adventurer
Fighter Variant: Unearth Arcana
Abrupt Jaunt: PHB II

Thanks for the responses all. This is what I'll be going (though I really do appreciate the other build suggestions... this just seems to fit best).

I think this build is awesome. I was really turned off until I read the Master Spellthief feat. What! Ridonc. Just to clarify, specialty wizard choosing Conjuration, giving up Wizard bonus feats and scribe scroll for Fighter bonus feats, and giving up familiar for abrupt jaunt?

I'm so taking Improved Critical (I assume my char will be prof with rays?).

[Jopustopin]

Just to clarify, specialty wizard choosing Cojuration, giving up Wizard bonus feats and scribe scroll for Fighter bonus feats, and giving up familiar for abrupt jaunt?

You got it; have fun!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I would actually skip Master Specialist, get five Wizard levels for another bonus feat and after Spellwarp Sniper get Unseen Seer in Complete Mage. That has a net gain of two feats, one for Wizard 5 and one because you don't need Spell Focus, though you could get one of the Complete Champion ACFs instead of the Wizard 5 feat. Here's what I'd do with the feats:

Level 1: Craven
Human: Able Learner
Wizard 1: Point Blank Shot
Level 3: Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)
Wizard 5: Precise Shot
Level 6: Master Spellthief

Your Item Familiar should start as a Ring of Protection +1, costing you 2,000 gp. You can then upgrade it yourself to a Ring of Invisibility which also has a +1 Deflection bonus to AC, for an additional cost of 10,000 gp and 800 XP (you should still have more XP than the rest of the party due to the 10% bonus Item Familiar grants you). As per intelligent items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm), it can activate its Invisibility effect on you every round so you'll always be invisible when you cast a spell. Preferably you should start every round invisible, cast a spell and become visible, then it activates invisibility and then you move (silently) so no opponents know where you are when they act. Plus it gives you insane bonuses to skill checks and an extra spell slot. Keep in mind that you can only invest what skill points you gain at 4th level and higher. Note that intelligent items are considered constructs, i.e. creatures, for what effects can affect them, so it cannot be dispelled or disjoined and it continues to function in an antimagic field, and you cannot sunder a creature except in specific cases (hydra) and you cannot slight of hand a creature, so there's little risk of it being lost or destroyed.

[danzibr]

I would actually skip Master Specialist, get five Wizard levels for another bonus feat and after Spellwarp Sniper get Unseen Seer in Complete Mage. That has a net gain of two feats, one for Wizard 5 and one because you don't need Spell Focus, though you could get one of the Complete Champion ACFs instead of the Wizard 5 feat. Here's what I'd do with the feats:

Level 1: Craven
Human: Able Learner
Wizard 1: Point Blank Shot
Level 3: Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)
Wizard 5: Precise Shot
Level 6: Master Spellthief

<snip>
Ya know, I think I'll do this. As Jopustopin said, the 10th level ability for Master Specialist is totally awesome, but honestly, I don't think we'll get that high. Plus, this is kinda a funny story... originally I was going to go Goliath Rogue/Wizard/Unseen Seer. I like that it's coming back to that... somehow.

Plus I've always wanted an item familiar. I'll make this dude over the weekend and show him off. Thanks all.

[danzibr]

Ah! Before I make a build, I have one final question. I am considering going some race which gets a bonus to int (or maybe something else like a Warforged). Thus I lose Able Learner and a bonus feat (we can take two flaws though). Is this suggested?

[Keld Denar]

Not completely advisable if you want to maintain your role as "skillz guy". Your wizard levels have a crappy skill list, so you'll be investing a lot of cross-class ranks, and even with a massive Int, you won't be quite as badass. Just something to keep in mind.

[danzibr]

Not completely advisable if you want to maintain your role as "skillz guy". Your wizard levels have a crappy skill list, so you'll be investing a lot of cross-class ranks, and even with a massive Int, you won't be quite as badass. Just something to keep in mind.
Aww futz, and I was just thinking Strongheart Halfling would be like, the ultimate race for this build. I will always defer to you, Keld Denar. Still, might be cool to roleplay a human.

[danzibr]

Hey, how about the Gnome that gives +2 to Int and Dex and is small? That seems perfect.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do not give up Able Learner for anything, it's not worth it. You'll be getting 2+Int skill points per Wizard level, for five levels. Considering you'll need Concentration and Spellcraft at max ranks, that means you can only keep up two other skills at cross-class cost. Between the Human bonus skill points and Able Learner, that's considerably more skills that you'll be able to have higher ranks in.

Maybe use Underfolk from Races of Destiny, since they're Humanoid (Human) they can still take Able Learner, otherwise just stick to Human, you'll be much better off in the long run.

You could gain a flaw at your 4th level, which is still during character creation in this case and thus allowable by RAW, so you can get a reserve feat such as Acid Splatter, Fiery Burst, Storm Bolt, or Winter's Blast (CM). If your DM will allow you to Spellwarp a reserve feat's effect into a ray, then one of those would be almost mandatory.

[Eldariel]

I frankly agree with the general Wizard/Skill Monkey idea but I'd go with:
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer ->


This gets you:
- More skill points (8 extra on level 1 [8+Int x 4 vs. 6+Int x 4] and 2+ more on all Unseen Seer-levels [6+Int vs. 4+Int])
- More class skills (Rogue list is far more expansive than Spellthief list)

Compared to Spellthief-base you lose out on:
- Casting in light armor (but light armor is hardly better than Mage Armor anyways; mostly irrelevant - also, there are Arcane Spell Failure-free light armors if looking for some armor enhancements)
- Stealing spells (but this isn't a big deal since you can't store any relevant amount of stolen spells as you only have 1 actual Spellthief level)

Feats would be:
1. Able Learner
Human. Whatever
3. Practiced Spellcaster (this is needed to mitigate not only the lost casting level but also the negative effects of Unseen Seer's "Divination Spell Power")
6. Whatever

For the other 1st level feat, I suggest:
Keen Intellect from the Oriental Adventures Update in Dragon Magazine #318 - allows you to use Intelligence instead of Wisdom in basically all Wisdom-based skills (except Profession & Listen) and Will-saves

Nymph's Kiss from Book of Exalted Deeds - It's an Exalted feat but if that's not a problem, you get +1 skill point per level and +2 to Charisma-based skills (and Charisma-checks) and a random +1 to saves vs. enchantments. And fey treat you as fey, which can't be bad.

Both would help you greatly with your skill monkeying for skills not based on Intelligence (there's a ton of useful Wisdom- and Charisma-based skills and no way you have good base values for both). If you can afford Flaws you could further take both (you could easily take "Vulnerable" and "Non-Combatant" without too much trouble).


If you want to take Wizard 5, get "Spontaneous Divination" alternative class feature from Complete Champion instead of bonus feats; being able to cast whatever Divination you happen to need at any given time spontaneously is a lifesaver and increases the power of situational Divinations tremendously. This is particularly useful in the dangerous life of a trapfinder. You don't strictly need to tho; both Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 2 and Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 1 are fine.

This would be the best skill monkey caster version. The others posted in this thread give up skill points for other things (often not very much) - obviously, if you're willing to put up with Item Familiar you can get high skill bonuses from that so picking up that is also a great, great option (lookey, you just so happen to have one feat slot open).

Stats I'd put:
Str 8 (0 points)
Dex 14 (6 points)
Con 14 (6 points)
Int 18 (16 points)
Wis 8 (0 points)
Cha 14 (6 points)

With Keen Intellect this would be fairly optimal. Without, I'd put some in Wis too. Obviously enough all level-ups in Intelligence.