Antimagic field as a Faraday cage

[NudeBovine]

Problem came up specifically in regard to scrying.

Our group has an archmage with Mastery of Shaping. For various reasons they all just stole the weapons from a balor and planeshifted away. They wanted a fast way to ensure that they couldn't be scryed on and the archmage made an Anti-magic field with a empty space in the middle so she could still cast orb spells if needed.

My question is if the target of the scry is in a hole in the anti-magic field can they then be scryed, or does the outersphere of antimagic act as a Faraday cage against spells?

[Safety Sword]

The effect is a magical sensor where the target is.

If the target is in an anti-magic field, it doesn't work.

If the target isn't, it works (providing their Will save fails).

If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[mint]

By RAW the anti-magic field won't prevent it because scrying doesn't need line of effect or line of sight.
But the case for DM arbitration of this is really strong. They used a clever idea to establish a rule situation that comes up too seldom to be pre-defined. If it were me, I would allow it.

[Wings of Peace]

I'm inclined to say no it doesn't work. There's no part of the Scrying spell that says any magic is happening around the players which would be suppressed by the field. Merely that the sensor is showing me where they are.

[AmberVael]

I'm inclined to say no it doesn't work. There's no part of the Scrying spell that says any magic is happening around the players which would be suppressed by the field. Merely that the sensor is showing me where they are.

Except the part that says the effect of the spell is a magical sensor that appears nearby the person scrying and follows them around.

Kind of a big part.

[Wings of Peace]

Except the part that says the effect of the spell is a magical sensor that appears nearby the person scrying and follows them around.

Kind of a big part.

I don't see anywhere that says a sensor is actually a thing that is appearing, just that it follows at a speed of 150ft. Unless there's a part that I'm just failing to see (which is entirely possible) the sensor isn't defined at all except for the mention of it following at a set speed which could be interpreted as the magical image we receive only moves that fast.

[AmberVael]

Here is what Scrying says:


Scrying
Divination (Scrying)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: See text
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Important are the two bolded parts.

The second bolded part means that the effect is indeed magical, and the effect is the sensor. It is true that it does not tell us where it is, however, nor does the rest of the quote. There does seem to be the implication, however.

After all, what does it mean for the sensor to move if the target does? So what, if the target of my scrying moves off, the sensor I've conjured starts flying away from me? Or is it 'metaphorical movement' that means its view "scrolls" at 150ft? Don't you think it points a lot more to there being a sensor near the target that actually flies around?

More importantly though, is the fact that this is a spell in the Scrying subschool. Information on that is as follows:


Scrying

A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. However, the sensor is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus it functions normally even if you have been blinded, deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.

Any creature with an Intelligence score of 12 or higher can notice the sensor by making a DC 20 Intelligence check. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.

Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is so blocked.

Again, it does not say precisely where, but all the implications point to the magical sensor being elsewhere, at the target. Else, how could they notice it, or target it with a dispel?

Further, Scrying notes a number of spells with incredibly limited range that can be used 'through the sensor.' This only makes sense if the Sensor is considered to be nearby the subject in some way, else how would you measure their effects, particularly those with areas rather than targets?


I do think you CAN make try and make the argument that the sensor is not in the area as it never outright states it (which is dumb), but I think the implications point a lot more in the other direction.

[Flickerdart]

If the Archmage is not inside the area of the AMF, he's hit by the Scry. If he is, he's not. Being surrounded by the AMF won't help him; he needs to be actually inside the field for it to give him any sort of benefit.

[ThiefInTheNight]

If the "magical sensor" can either fit inside the space within the AMF, or can still see them from beyond the AMF's range, it works fine. It does seem to me that the sensor itself could not pass through the AMF'd area, though. But RAW doesn't tell us where the sensor appears or whatever; presumably this would just affect the angles the viewer can see at.

Importantly, Antimagic Field does not break line of effect. The Balor can as easily create the sensor within the AMF-shell (provided it is, itself, outside the AMF region) as it can create one outside of it.

For a more descriptive example, consider a Wizard within such an AMF-shell as described. Another Wizard could cast a Fireball at him: the Fireball's bead thing would wink out (disappear and be unable to explode) when it entered the AMF, but would re-appear once it exited the AMF (within the hollow), and would be free to explode and burn things within. The area of the explosion would be limited by the hollow, however (since the magical fire would be suppressed within the AMF).

[NudeBovine]

Thanks everyone for their insight. Helped give me more to think on. I guess I'm starting to think that not all magic should be thought of as working in 4-dimensional space to which a Faraday cage of Anti-magic would work. Sure, ray spells, fireball, walls and the like that exist at a location in a discrete moment would be suppressed. Things like scry, though, which don't need line of sight, seems to not be bound by 4 dimensional limits and could just form at the spot without passing through the surrounding AMF.

That just leaves questions about how close that sensor really is, unless it is in the same space as the Arch-mage then it would be in the AMF. That, however, I have never seen written anywhere.

And again, thanks everyone. Very helpful.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Also, there's nothing that says your magical sensor must be x distance from him. Simply hang outside of the AMF and record away.

Or, to put it in engineering terms: Rather than trying to run a feed into the Faraday cage, which happens to be transparent in this case, you hang your spycam just outside the cage, where you can transmit the feed live all you like without having your signal blocked.