The Most Useful Guy Around... 3.5 Character Build Help Please

[AzazelSephiroth]

Hey all super character builders out there. I have finally returned after a long absence from gaming and am excited to start playing again. I recently got a job in Aomori Japan and found a group playing 3.5!!

The downside is the group is rather large at around 7 people already, and I will be coming in as a player and part time secondary DM to help during big combats and so forth... We have a rogue pixie, a future frenzied beserker, a sorcercer and a few others I have yet to hear back from. I am hoping to make a character that can fit into any role they may need from time to time without overshadowing anyone. I have a little over a decade of gaming under my belt and feel I can RP and downplay any class I need to. But I was wondering what the Forums suggestions are for a super utility character that can do a little bit of everything and still have a sense of style. The campaign is going to be Greyhawk forcibly meets Norse Mythology...

I am leaning towards a Bard with a bit of Norse flavor and flair... or something similar. Almost all books are allowed... including some 3.0 sources if need be. So basically I am asking for the great people of the forums to give me their best builds, suggestions or even just role playing advice for a returning gamer trying to build a memorable utility character with some viking style flavor.

Thanks in adavance for all of your help!!:smallbiggrin:

PS I forgot to mention a Druid and no one has expressed an interest in any Clerics.

[Godskook]

Um, we need:
-Level
-Character generation rules(specifically things like flaws, gestalt, etc)

[AzazelSephiroth]

Crap! I forgot all the important parts! :smallredface:

1-Okay the campaign will start at 1st level but we are sure to level quickly to around 6-8 before we begin the slower progression into major story territory.
2-No Gestalt as far as I know... DM seems very cool but I am also new to the group so I don`t want to rock the boat.
3-Generation is a little tough in my book: 4d6 drop lowest but he throws out any sets with a combined bonus of over +9 or under +3. So no super stats and no craptastic either.
4-Any book is allowed so flaws and so forth my be allowed but I would err on the side of caution and leave them out.

However do not be afraid to give me something strange or unusual... I can`t promise I will get to play it but I will give them all consideration and ask my DM for kindness :smallwink:

[Safety Sword]

In before factotum.

[Gwendol]

Viking style campaign - bard is very much in play here, and there is a warrior skald prestige class in Races of Faerun that fluff-wise fits the bill.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You could go Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) in UA. Consider picking up Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), animal companions are one of the best ways to ensure that the whole party survives until 2nd level.

Use Silverbrow Human in Dragon Magic for your race, your feats should be Dragonfire Inspiration from that same book and Melodic Casting in Complete Mage. When you get 1st level spells learn Inspirational Boost in Spell Compendium. One of your first items should be a Badge of Valor from the Magic Item Compendium, it's only 1200 gp. At 3rd level take Song of the Heart from the Eberron Campaign Setting (no part of it is specifically tied to that setting). At 3rd level, your Inspire Courage will be adding +4d6 fire damage to everyone's attacks. You can stay at the back and use a shortbow and still benefit from that. Also note that being a noninstantaneous magical fire, anyone damaged by it will have to make a Reflex save or catch fire, as per catching on fire in the DMG.

Go something like Savage Bard 8/ Mindbender 1/ Warblade or Crusader 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Paragnostic Apostle 3. Alternatively, you could go something like Bard 4/ Warblade 16, with Song of the White Raven at 6th level. That would be more of a warrior character, but with the amazing inspire courage. In that case you could skip Melodic Casting and instead get maybe TWF or Power Attack (or Wild Cohort). TWF with Dragonfire Inspiration and the Xing Mongoose maneuvers would actually be a decent choice if your ability scores permit it, otherwise stick to 2h Power Attack.

[Godskook]

I'd probably swing some kind of bard/marshal, shooting towards sublime chord.

With Marshal, at first, and every two levels thereafter, you get the ability to add your Cha to a new and exciting stat's checks and skills(Dex, Int and Wis covers 90% of the important non-Cha skills, so 5 levels at most)

Alternatively, a white raven bardblade(bard/warblade) is another great way to go to be an impressive member of the team without negating anyone's ability to contribute. Spreading the white raven tactics love around will ensure they all *LOVE* you.

Master of Masks makes a decent dip if you want a martial bent, as exotic weapon proficiencies will never be this easy to come by. Stay for 1 or 2 levels, but almost never more.

Dragonfire Inspiration will turn your Inspire Courage bonus from a +X attack/damage into +Xd6 damage, in fire, or the element of your choice(including force) if you take Draconic Heritage with the appropriate dragon lineage.

[TurtleKing]

Marshal, Dragon Shaman, Factotum, Bard, and the PrC Chameleon are all quite versatile.

[kardar233]

But not as versatile as me (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/mysticTheurge.htm).

Excelsior! (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/05/26/episode-034-introductions-are-in-order/)

[marcielle]

Psions. Spontaneous almost wizards are always useful.

[etrpgb]

Rogue 2/Bard 2/Druid 1/Green Whisperer*** 5/Sublime Chord** 2/Fochlucan Lyrist* 8
Possibly human with Able Learner feat.

And you are the official swiss knife of the party. I think is quite good with the settings too as it is a magical mix between fighter and bard.

At the end you cast as Druid 14 (Similar to a Ranger); Bard 7; Sublime Chord 10.
You have musics until inspire heroics. With decent Int you can be a skill monkey.

The alternate way where you want to be stronger as Druid is:
Druid 4/Bard 1/Combat Medic**** 5/Fochlucan Lyrist 10.

* http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2
** Complete Arcane pag. 60
*** DR311 pag. 70
**** Heroes of Battle pag. 99

[Fouredged Sword]

bard / Chameleon / Master of masks

Be everyone.

EVERYONE!

Bonus points if the party thinks you are a random revolving set of characters that keep incedentaly meeting and joining up.

[gallagher]

bard / Chameleon / Master of masks

Be everyone.

EVERYONE!

Bonus points if the party thinks you are a random revolving set of characters that keep incedentaly meeting and joining up.

came in to say this, but with one addition:

play a character that has multiple personality disorder, change who you are at random. have conversations with yourself. make it funny!

[Andorax]

My wife played a rogue/chameleon changeling once in an eberron campaign I was running. Played it as full-on multiple personality disorder with a hat of disguise and brought a different "character" along each morning.

Much fun was had.

I strongly recommend a social-capible character (rogue, bard, swashbuckler if that's your interest) built to qualify into Chameleon if what you're after is "fill a role as needed".

[Fouredged Sword]

What is the race that has two bodies from Dragon Comp? That would be fun on a chamelion:smallbiggrin:

[BIGMamaSloth]

What is the race that has two bodies from Dragon Comp? That would be fun on a chamelion:smallbiggrin:

Dvati is the race. There rules are pretty ambiguous and confusing I find though. I suggest factotum 8/Chameleon 10/something else 2. Extra standard actions a great for filling multiple roles.

[Greenish]

My wife played a rogue/chameleon changeling once in an eberron campaign I was running. Played it as full-on multiple personality disorder with a hat of disguise and brought a different "character" along each morning.Hat of Disguise on a changeling seems redundant, unless you let the bonuses stack (as they do by RAW, I believe).

[Big Fau]

Factotum 8/Warblade 12? Or just Factotum 20. Or Warblade 20 and use the right magic items (Tree tokens!).


Or Incarnate (be warned: Difficult but Awesome). Or an Artificer (even more so).

[Fouredged Sword]

Master of masks makes a good something else 2. Get two masks you like and go with it.

Not the most powerful build, but not bad at all. Consider that you have really nice ability to get tons of difrent spells.

[kardar233]

Hat of Disguise on a changeling seems redundant, unless you let the bonuses stack (as they do by RAW, I believe).

Changeling RAI can only change himself, not his clothes. Add Hat of Disguise to change that, and you are not only Disguised but you have real flesh changes.

[Big Fau]

Changeling RAI can only change himself, not his clothes. Add Hat of Disguise to change that, and you are not only Disguised but you have real flesh changes.

Or you can save 1,300gp by buying a different magic item that has the same effect (there are several, one in the MIC, one in the ECS, and one is RoE). Almost all of them are 500gp.

[TurtleKing]

Wait don't Changelings only have a few forms they choose to take?

[dextercorvia]

Has anyone mentioned Binder?

[Big Fau]

Wait don't Changelings only have a few forms they choose to take?

Nope. They usually do restrict themselves because coming up with new forms on the fly can result in serious mistakes in facial features and such that could give them away, but there's no limit on disguises.

[Flickerdart]

Has anyone mentioned Binder?
Binder would take away from Chameleon levels but Bind Vestige and Improved Vestige would be good investments. A two-level dip into Totemist also wouldn't be out of place.

[Fouredged Sword]

Binder 4-5 / factotum 1-2 / chamelion 10 / binder x - maybe? Full chamelion and a not small amount of binder .

[Wings of Peace]

Being a Haberdasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) is pretty good for raw versatility. Especially on a Changeling chassis. If you go Bard and want to function as a skill monkey I recommend comboing the Bardic Knack acf with the spell Improvisation. Lunatic Insight is also a good feat for that setup since it lets you use knowledge skills untrained.

[Metahuman1]

Be a Wizard generalist, know a lot of different kinds of spells, prep spells to try and cover a roll no one's really covering. If no one's serious about buffing, buff the crud out of party members. No crowd Control, use are of effect spells like Grease, Color Spray, Web, Glitter Dust, Slow, Black Tenticals, ext. Lack of melee support? Summon expendable Minions with either Necromancy or Conjuration, or charm big old melee brutes to do the sword fighting end of things. Need a trap finder, Detect magic and Unseen Servant for the win. If everything else is covered, grab a few utility and divination spells and a couple of reserve feats and blaster spells and your equipped to pull your weight the lions share of the time.

Artificer, great class, spread the WLB and make it go further for the whole party. Maybe use the wight/succubus trick to keep form loosing too much xp.

Cleric, Heal, buff, sure up the melee lines.

Crusader/Warblade/Swordsage, if you need some type of melee, these are great go to classes.

Bard, been discussed, extensively, good option.

Factotum, solid class if you can afford the font of inspiration feat tax. Let's you do a lot with skills. Hint: One level of this plus able learner feat at level one means all skills are now class skills for all classes you break off into.

Binder, extremely versatility class, just make sure you've got a good understanding going in of what vestige does what so you can try to grab the one's you need.

Incarnate: As above. Have set's for your chakura binds and Soulmelds written out in advance. A warriors Set, an social skills set, a field skills set, ext, it will save time when you set up to fill a given role or two every morning .

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bard/Warblade/War Chanter.

Boost everyone. And then some.

[Jack_Simth]

around 7 people already
With that many people in the party, anyone who can do mass-buffs is very useful. (Savage) Bard (bardsong, especially with the assorted feats out there to make bardsong do something slightly different, or much better), (Cloistered) Cleric (load up on party level buff spells, Bless at 1st level, Prayer for 3rd level spells, Recitation at 4th level spells, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful if you reach 5th level spells), Marshal (comes with a lot of useful auras), Dragon Shaman (same playstyle as Marshal in that regard), or possibly Wizard or Sorcerer (although they're not quite as good at mass buffing as the others in this list).

[Wings of Peace]

War Weaver (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5881.0) is another class worth considering.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Wow!! You guys are awesome. I will have to give a look at a lot of these ideas.
I am presently leaning towards the Bard/Warblade using White Raven... However the idea of chameleon and then having mutiplie personalities sounds amazing if only for the lols.:smallbiggrin:

Anyone have a sample progression for a good Bard/warblade or Savage Bard build? It would be interesting to see their capabilities at higher levels.

And thanks soooo much for all of the suggestions and help! I just found out flaws are allowed with DM checking so... that can add a little spice!

Oh and while i have access to all the books I am afraid I havent read all of them yet: Which books are the top for Bard feats and spells? This is merely a question for finding the coolest feat combos and spell choices not meant to start any best book arguments :smallsmile:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Anyone have a sample progression for a good Bard/warblade or Savage Bard build? It would be interesting to see their capabilities at higher levels. Bard4/Warblade2/War Chanter10/Warblade4 is a good solid one.

You're also probably a Silverbrow Human, with Dragontouched and Combat Expertise as feats. At 3rd level, you've got Song of the Heart, and at 6th, you've got Weapon Focus. From there, Dragonfire Inspiration and White Raven Song are both good options.

At low levels, you're a Bard who does Inspire Courage. Pick up a MW Mandolin as you can (Complete Adventurer version which grants a +1 to Inspire Courage), for moderate bonuses to everyone's attack and damage (+3 at level 3). Pick up Inspirational Boost at 4th. See if you can afford a Badge of Valor and a Vest of Legends to get your IC up to +6 or so by level 7.

At mid levels, you're only 1 BAB shy of a full BAB striker class, able to take a better beating thanks to the d12 HD of Warblade and certain maneuvers, providing a significant damage boost to every melee attacker in the party, including summons, if any.

At High levels, you make random mooks into cruise missiles. Song of the Legion gives everyone a full BAB. By now, the IC/DFI is fully online as well, which means not only is everyone hitting, but everyone is dishing out a LOT of damage.


And thanks soooo much for all of the suggestions and help! I just found out flaws are allowed with DM checking so... that can add a little spice! Well, with extra feats, you can pick up DFI at level 1, and possibly Draconic Heretage as well, for Sonic damage instead of Fire on your DFI. Picking up a Draconic Aura at some point woudn't be amiss, I'd suggest vigor personally, for fast healing when people are wounded. If you want to dip Dragon Shaman, pick up Senses for a bonus on Initiative checks.


Oh and while i have access to all the books I am afraid I havent read all of them yet: Which books are the top for Bard feats and spells? This is merely a question for finding the coolest feat combos and spell choices not meant to start any best book arguments :smallsmile:

Spell Compendium has Inspirational Boost, a very handy spell for any bard to have

Dragon Magic has Silverbrow Humans, Dragontouched, Dragonfire Inspiration, and Draconic Auras

Complete Adventurer has interesting bonuses for Masterworked weapons of various types.

[dextercorvia]

@Schneeky: Why go Silverbrow over regular Human if you are going to pick up Dragontouched for Draconic Heritage anyway? Going straight Human will get you the extra skill points.

[rexreg]

i would highly recommend the factotum
this allows you to have access to basically every skill out there, heal in a pinch, cast wiz spells in a pinch, act as a thief, & boost your combat abilities round-by-round using inspiration points

use human as your race for xtra skill pnts & the extra feat (Font of Inspiration!! gives you xtra inspiration points

[etrpgb]

I just found out flaws are allowed with DM checking so... that can add a little spice!
If you he allows one, take one. If he allows two, take two. If he allows five take five... It is fun that there is still some DM that see the flaws as balanced in the long run!

[AzazelSephiroth]

Thanks again everyone! It is taking a little longer than expected before I can actually character build as I have to meet with my DM first but I think the Bard/Warblade/War Chanter is my favorite so far for flair and it fits the theme really well! So I have one more qestion to humbly ask the powerful forum crafters...

What gear should I focus on for this guy... I am thinking Long Spear maybe for combat?
Levels 1-20 Anything goes I would love to see what your have for suggestions on the coolest Bard/Warblade items I could use. :smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks again everyone! It is taking a little longer than expected before I can actually character build as I have to meet with my DM first but I think the Bard/Warblade/War Chanter is my favorite so far for flair and it fits the theme really well! So I have one more qestion to humbly ask the powerful forum crafters...

What gear should I focus on for this guy... I am thinking Long Spear maybe for combat?
Levels 1-20 Anything goes I would love to see what your have for suggestions on the coolest Bard/Warblade items I could use. :smallbiggrin:

Start off with a Masterworked Mandolin for a +1 to Inspire Courage numbers.

As far as a weapon, start off with a Longsword, upgrade to Harmonizing as you get the chance, and call it done.

Badge of Valor is something you want to snatch up at your earliest opportunity

Vest of Legends is also something you're wanting to snag.

Other than that... anything that gives you CHA is good, and if there's anything that gives you more Bardic Music uses per day, that would be nice as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

Get a masterwork tool of diplomacy, intimidate, and bluff.

Call them a really fancy hat, boots, and lapel pin respectivly.

Every self respecting bard needs a hat.

[AzazelSephiroth]

:smallbiggrin: Awesome Responses! Thank you all so much! I will post the final build tomorrow or the next day!

One question though, I couldn`t figure out what the benefit of Silverbrow Human was vs. normal Human with Dragon Touched Feat? The Feat seems to give some small bonuses and the Silverbrow`s only bonus seems to be the DragonBlood subtype that Dragon Touched Feat will bestow.

[dextercorvia]

:smallbiggrin: Awesome Responses! Thank you all so much! I will post the final build tomorrow or the next day!

One question though, I couldn`t figure out what the benefit of Silverbrow Human was vs. normal Human with Dragon Touched Feat? The Feat seems to give some small bonuses and the Silverbrow`s only bonus seems to be the DragonBlood subtype that Dragon Touched Feat will bestow.

Silverbrow Humans still get the bonus feat. They just give up the skill points in place of the dragonblood subtype.

[Gullintanni]

As far as a weapon, start off with a Longsword, upgrade to Harmonizing as you get the chance, and call it done.


Harmonizing is nice, but Lingering Song (if you can afford the extra feat) is better. The caveat that matters here is that Harmonizing extends the duration of only one song at a time. If you begin playing another, then the Harmonizing weapon attunes to the new song and you lose the benefits of the old one. Not so with Lingering Song.

With Lingering Song, the proper combat turn order is:
Round 1: Inspire Courage
Round 2: Dragonfire Inspiration
Round 3: Flurry of Accurate, Powerful, Sonic-Damage attacks
...repeat for the next 8 rounds or until everything is dead.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Hey guys sorry for the delay in getting back! Life never seems to take a Holiday.

So the final form is going to be...

Lesser Assimar Dragon Born
STR-15
DEX-14
CON-18
INT-16
WIS-13
CHA-20

I think going for Dragonfire Inspiration is a given, I am not sure which flaws I am going to take but I hope to play up the barbaric nature of the character as well as his being sent forth by Bahamut himself for the purpose of assisting Thor (homebrew campaign) in the destruction of Tiamat and her Giant allies.

Thank you guys sooo much for all of your help! I think that with this Character in hand I can be a backup for any situation that may arise and give some considerable help to the party so they can shine as the heroes!:smallsmile: