First time wizard(enchanter)

[Torgoth99]

So im in a lvl 7 group that consists of....
1 Binder/incarnate
1 dragon adept
1wizard(enchanter)
1 dread necromancer

were rebels that are supposed to oust a hobgoblin invasion force, but on our first battle our group got its butt kicked by a very organized group of hobgoblins. 5 of them. only reason we won is because i used suggestion to make the sergeant retreat. and that scared me, cuz how are we supposed to defeat an army if 5 of them can clean the floor with us? And they have airships! So my question is: are there any spells or maybe a strategy or 3 we can use to successfully defeat a group of enemies that are incredibly coordinated with the characters we are using?

[NNescio]

So im in a lvl 7 group that consists of....
1 Binder/incarnate
1 dragon adept
1wizard(enchanter)
1 dread necromancer

were rebels that are supposed to oust a hobgoblin invasion force, but on our first battle our group got its butt kicked by a very organized group of hobgoblins. 5 of them. only reason we won is because i used suggestion to make the sergeant retreat. and that scared me, cuz how are we supposed to defeat an army if 5 of them can clean the floor with us? And they have airships! So my question is: are there any spells or maybe a strategy or 3 we can use to successfully defeat a group of enemies that are incredibly coordinated with the characters we are using?

Is this, perchance, your DM?


Hilariously, my little Team of Battle successfully routed the party. The teams:

Dread Necromancer 6
Dragonfire Adept 7
Wizard (Enchanter) 7
Binder 7

vs a group of 4 level 4 Warblades lead by a level 5 Crusader/Bard/Marshal carrying a Hobgoblin Banner (Cromagh's Guide to Goblins).

The party barely escaped, with the wizard and adept at 3 and -9 HP, and the binder at half HP

[Torgoth99]

sadly yes. i find it tactically difficult to outsmart someone smarter. :smalleek:

[NNescio]

sadly yes. i find it tactically difficult to outsmart someone smarter. :smalleek:

What kind of spells do you have, and how much (in-game) time can you spare? Does the Binder have access to summons?

[Torgoth99]

4 mass whelm
fractured unity

3 confidante
hold person
dispel magic
suggestion

2 greater daze
touch of idiocy
tasha's hideous laughter
invisibility

1 charm person
color spray
enlarge person
silent image
hypnotism
burning hands
hold portal
sleep
moments pause



we get 1 week per in between sessions. i spent this one making a belt of battle.
he can summon vestiges if thats what u mean, yeah.

[NNescio]

That's... not a lot of useful combat spells. Fractured Unity will disable the ToB classes from using buffs on each other and Hideous Laughter is arguably your strongest single-target disable spell. Mass Whelm is rather... underwhelming (compare it with Fireball).

Sleep, Color Spray, and Hypnotism are strong against low-HD enemies, 'though they probably won't come up that often at your level.

Suggestion can be used to pull off Jedi Mind Tricks.

Invisibility is nice for scouting and retreating. It can also be nasty when used with certain other spells, but I don't think you have any of the indirect-hitting or long duration spells to use.

Enlarge Person is a decent buff for melee types, but your party doesn't appear to have a suitable target.

Silent Image is a rather open-ended spell, 'though you'll have to be creative with your illusions and they rely heavily on DM adjudication.

Is it possible to pick up other spells to use? Your spell list doesn't have most of the Wizard's staples. It's lacking in Conjuration and Transmutation. I hope you didn't ban the former.

And by your binder summoning, I meant Summon Monster effects, through Zceryll, (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) in particular.

[Eldariel]

You're an Enchanter without Confusion? For shame.

[vampire2948]

Do you know what Invocations the Dragonfire Adept took?
Also - Does the Dread Necro have any undead yet?

If your DM keeps using mooks with ToB levels, it could get tricky. Best idea is probably to use your Dread Necromancer & Binder [If he has access to Zceryll, as Nnescio mentioned.] to create undead & summoned monsters to slow them down - While you and the Dragonfire Adept attempt to take out the leader-monsters like that Crusader/Marshal/Bard who buffs the others. Makes the fight easier, and you might be able to convince the enemy to leave.

Plenty of 4th level spells are great vs. armies.
From core - Wall of Fire is decent for limiting movement, Fear would be useful if you have a lot of targets in your cone... the list goes on.

Other than that. Invisibility + Avoid the army could be a good method of 'beating' them.

What's the plot like? I assume your objective isn't 'kill every last hobgoblin'?

Vamp,

[Torgoth99]

i can get more spells, i dont see why not. and i banned divination and necromancy.

not sure about the monster summoning, ive never seen him do it.

plot-wise, its: weve been dumped in a city with a big spire in the middle which is the bad guy hq. there are 4 airships to the north, and three in the city. 2 are floating around and 1 is tethered to the spire.

dread necro has no undead as of yet.
dragon adept has magic insight, voracious dispelling and 1 i dont know yet.

[mawexzon]

I am pretty sure you cant ban divination

[Torgoth99]

did i say divination? i meant abjuration.

[ericgrau]

To take out groups you need mass spells, especially control spells. Enchantment is pretty lousy there, but you have a few options: deep slumber, crushing despair, confusion. I'd go confusion. Deep slumber is already down to 1 target and crushing despair is pretty weak in the effect. OTOH it hits more targets and affects weapon damage too, so it's great if you ever do find the rest of the army and fight weenies instead of the handful of elites you've been fighting so far.

Very clever use of charm monster can bypass fights. Get the guard before he sounds the alarm, have him vouch for you in front of others, etc. It's hard to pull off though and after a fight breaks out it's nearly impossible to be of much use, even if the one guy does fail his save (unlikely with the bonus) it doesn't get you very far.

Ideally I'd use spells from other schools including the walls, barriers like solid fog, mass chainable disables like slow, etc.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Frist of all, why did you ban Necromancy over Evocation? Now I may be a necromancy freak, but it's not just my love of undeath talking, the Enchanter's handbook even says that Necromancy has good synergy with enchantment. Personally I'd ban evocation, which is mostly sup-par blasting over necromancy any day, especially since Necromancy has some useful effects that other schools can't replicate while evocation's main shtick(Blasting) can be covered by conjuration.

Speaking of the Enchanter's Hanbook, it may help you to read it...unfortunately, I can't find the darn link to the thing, but if somebody who can reads this please, provide the man with it.

[vampire2948]

Frist of all, why did you ban Necromancy over Evocation? Now I may be a necromancy freak, but it's not just my love of undeath talking, the Enchanter's handbook even says that Necromancy has good synergy with enchantment. Personally I'd ban evocation, which is mostly sup-par blasting over necromancy any day, especially since Necromancy has some useful effects that other schools can't replicate while evocation's main shtick(Blasting) can be covered by conjuration.

Speaking of the Enchanter's Hanbook, it may help you to read it...unfortunately, I can't find the darn link to the thing, but if somebody who can reads this please, provide the man with it.

Well, he does have a Dread Necro in the party. Kinda understandable.

Enchantment Guides:
Enchanter's Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867266/Enchanter_Handbook)
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizard Spells: God's Tools - Part 7: Enchantment (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=du3hbpogibm14ld2b62u4u9v25&topic=394.msg8101#msg8101)

Vamp,

EDIT : Wait, you have conjuration? This gets easier. Awesome school o' magic.

Get Summon Monster IV, summon 1d3 dretches. D'you see that SLA on the Dretch list? Stinking Cloud DC13.


Nauseated

Experiencing stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.

Even at DC 13, it ought to take roughly a quarter to a half of the opponents caught in the cloud out of the fight for up to 5 rounds. Especially if some of them are casters. Not bad for one 4th level slot.

[Torgoth99]

thanks for the links and advice guys.
keep em comin if u want. or not. meh.

[shadow_archmagi]

For the record, our Dread Necro is currently re-working himself into god knows what. He seems pretty fixated on Warlock going into Blood Magus now, but he's pretty flexible.

EDIT: If it makes you feel better, Mike, I'm debating whether or not to make FLAG CAPTAIN a recurring and special enemy, or whether there'll be one on every street corner.

EDIT2: Actually I have no idea why I thought that'd make you feel better, since that either means the fight will get harder each time, or that there can potentially be any number of identical FLAG CAPTAINS in one battle.

[vampire2948]

For the record, our Dread Necro is currently re-working himself into god knows what. He seems pretty fixated on Warlock going into Blood Magus now, but he's pretty flexible.

EDIT: If it makes you feel better, Mike, I'm debating whether or not to make FLAG CAPTAIN a recurring and special enemy, or whether there'll be one on every street corner.

EDIT2: Actually I have no idea why I thought that'd make you feel better, since that either means the fight will get harder each time, or that there can potentially be any number of identical FLAG CAPTAINS in one battle.

This could work out pretty good for you. Just dominate a few of these 'FLAG CAPTAINS'. Free buffs, hooray.

[Chilingsworth]

Since you hvae access to conjuration, I'd get the wizard stand-by spells grease and web. If absolutely nothing else, these spells can make your escape easier. If you use them right, they can split your opponents up, and/or make them more vulnerable to your allies attacks.

[ericgrau]

Only get web if there are plenty of trees or other objects to attach it to though.

[candycorn]

I'm surprised nobody recommended Ray of Dizziness. Hit someone, and they're slowed, no save.

Or Charm Monster... Army in a can... Come on now.

[dextercorvia]

Rebuke from the SpC should replace Daze Monster. It has no HD cap, CL rounds duration, and they are daze for the first round and shaken after that. The only downside is the Range is Short instead of Medium.

[shadow_archmagi]

One flag captain, or many?

How foolish of me. This is why I shouldn't stay up late. I only just now realized that I could have one be a unique, recurring villain, and still have generic ones everywhere!