Metamagic Spell Component Formula?

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I was looking through Unearthed Arcana earlier today. I love the book, just because it has interesting modifications for game rules, and the additional flavour is great for both players and DM's alike.
I finally got around to looking more closely to the metamagic spell components section (p. 139). Though it had some specific items, it did not list a formula, as is customary. It had specific items, but what if you have a player that would like to try and craft a metamagic spell component that empowered rather than enlarged a spell? Or maximized rather than widened? Not to mention it has no rules for new metamagic feats, like those from Libris Mortis.

Does anyone know where I may find such a formula, or odes anyone have an idea for creating a formula?

It mentions craft checks for some, but I'm more interested in determining a cost. We all know a wand with a level 1 spell at CL 1 is 750 gp. We know scrolls cost spell level x CL x50 to buy. What about metamagic spell components?

Thanks.

[NecroRick]

The whole point of that system is that it isn't formulaic, that each spell and metamagic feat combination has a different component.

NB: you may have confused potions and scrolls in your cost calculation :D

If you're looking for a cost formula, note that the costs for metamagic-ing a higher level spell are correspondingly higher, and regularly run into the thousands.

Try something like this:

cost = level of spell x level spell would be with that metamagic applied normally x 25.

So let's say you want to Fell Drain your Magic Missile. The cost is 1 x 3 x 25 = 75gp

Lets say that you want to persist a 5th level spell, the cost is 5 x 11 x 25 = 1375

Hmm... that looks a little low. The cost of persisting a fifth level spell should be significantly higher than that.

How about:

base level x level it would be x metamagic increase squared x 25

Fell Drain Magic Missile now costs 300gp.
Persisted fifth level spell now costs 49,500gp.

Hmm... a little too high perhaps.

How about:
level it would have been x metamagic increase squared x 25

Fell Drain Magic Missile still costs 300gp.
Persisted fifth level spell now costs 9,900gp.

That looks better.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The whole point of that system is that it isn't formulaic, that each spell and metamagic feat combination has a different component.

NB: you may have confused potions and scrolls in your cost calculation :D

If you're looking for a cost formula, note that the costs for metamagic-ing a higher level spell are correspondingly higher, and regularly run into the thousands.

Try something like this:

cost = level of spell x level spell would be with that metamagic applied normally x 25.

So let's say you want to Fell Drain your Magic Missile. The cost is 1 x 3 x 25 = 75gp

Lets say that you want to persist a 5th level spell, the cost is 5 x 11 x 25 = 1375

Hmm... that looks a little low. The cost of persisting a fifth level spell should be significantly higher than that.

How about:

base level x level it would be x metamagic increase squared x 25

Fell Drain Magic Missile now costs 300gp.
Persisted fifth level spell now costs 49,500gp.

Hmm... a little too high perhaps.

How about:
level it would have been x metamagic increase squared x 25

Fell Drain Magic Missile still costs 300gp.
Persisted fifth level spell now costs 9,900gp.

That looks better.

To address the scroll potion question, scrolls are spell level x CL x 25 to craft. Most items are roughly double when purchased outright, so I switched the 25 for a 50. If I'm off I'm off. It was just an example.

Your calculation ideas seem pretty good. I made the mistake of thinking caster level should be included in the calculation, but it really shouldn't. Since you provide the caster level and still need to be able to cast the spell.

The last group of calculations seem pretty accurate. It may actually be a little bit higher than the averages in the book (1st level spells with +1 metamagic were 190gp or 250gp) but I'm fine with that. The formula is spot on for higher level spells, like and extended owl's wisdom for example.

How would this formula work with cantrips, as a spell level of zero kills the formula. Do we just assume new spell level squared x 25gp?

Does anyone else have anything to contribute?

[Otiendikil]

Hi Tibbaerrohwen,

I've derived a few formulas for the cost of metamagic components. They are pretty good, as best as I have been able to figure them (...I'll probably finish only to find them published somewhere...):

There are (about?) 617 RSRD spells,

there is zero difference between the formula estimate and the stated metamagic cost in 426 of them;

42 are underestimates;

65 are overestimates;

(84 can't be estimated as they did not have metamagic components/suggested costs).

First, find the minimum appropriate level for the spell ("SL"; usually, it is either cleric or sorcerer/wizard).

Second, calculate the increase, or adjustment ("Adj"), in effective spell level caused by the metamagic feat being duplicated:
Enlarged, Extended, Heightened +1, Silent, Stilled;
Empowered, Heightened +2, Silent *and* Stilled;
Heightened +3, Maximized, Widened;
Heightened +4, Quickened.

(And a few other combinations, calculated similarly.)

Third, the formulas are then:
SL*Adj*200+50;
SL*Adj*200+300;
SL*Adj*200+750;
SL*Adj*200+1400.


Fourth, add in the cost of any significant material components. I added in any stated cost (1 gp and up).

Fifth and finally, subtract 25 gp if it is zero-level (cantrip/orisons) spells.

(I haven't been able to figure out a single formula that makes sense of 50, 300, 750, and 1400 or the 25 subtracted for zero-level spells.)

Some examples:

Disrupt Undead is Enlarged (Adj = 1) and is a 0-level spell:

0*1*200+50-25 = 25 gp
Daylight is Silent and Stilled (Adj = 2) and is a 3rd-level spell:

3*2*200+300 = 1500 gp
Temporal Stasis is Heightened +2 (Adj = 2) and is a 8th-level spell and has a 5000 gp material component:

8*2*200+300+5000 = 8500 gp
Charm Monster is Quickened (Adj = 4) and is a 4th-level spell:

4*4*200+1400 = 4600 gp
Cure Light Wounds is Quickened (Adj = 4) and is a 0-level spell:

0*4*200+1400-25 = 1375 gp


If you would like an Excel and Word document with this stuff, let me know.

Hope that helps!
~~ Matt

[Roog]

First, find the minimum appropriate level for the spell ("SL"; usually, it is either cleric or sorcerer/wizard).

Second, calculate the increase, or adjustment ("Adj"), in effective spell level caused by the metamagic feat being duplicated:
Enlarged, Extended, Heightened +1, Silent, Stilled;
Empowered, Heightened +2, Silent *and* Stilled;
Heightened +3, Maximized, Widened;
Heightened +4, Quickened.

(And a few other combinations, calculated similarly.)

Third, the formulas are then:
SL*Adj*200+50;
SL*Adj*200+300;
SL*Adj*200+750;
SL*Adj*200+1400.


Fourth, add in the cost of any significant material components. I added in any stated cost (1 gp and up).

Fifth and finally, subtract 25 gp if it is zero-level (cantrip/orisons) spells.

(I haven't been able to figure out a single formula that makes sense of 50, 300, 750, and 1400 or the 25 subtracted for zero-level spells.)

Cost = 100*(Adj(Adj-0.5)+2SL) + Material Component Costs

The factor of Adj-0.5 suggests that the original formula could involves terms like SL*minCL, but I don't have not put in the work to covert the formula to that form.

[Otiendikil]

Thanks, Roog--it took me trying to go to bed to see the relationship between the numbers.

I just left the first part as

50 gp * Adj * (2 * Adj - 1)

and the whole, then, as:

50 gp * Adj * (2 * Adj - 1) + SL* Adj * 200 + Reg. Material Component Cost - 25 gp if a cantrip/orison

Whichever people find easier.

The handy part of the final formula is that metamagic components for "Heightened + 5"--or even "Intensified" (a +7 increase) and other epic level increases--can now be created.

There are still unanswered questions about the ones that don't fit the formula. Are they practical or game balance concerns, or errors, or some combination thereof?

Thanks, Matt

[Vaynor]

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