My hidden party

[Accordion Twome]

I am Dming a party that is very good at not being seen.
Here is the party:

Somar: lizzier (homebrew race) 7 bard/1 dragon disciple.

Tea spoon: halfling druid level 8, the healer of the group.

Iliana: drow 7 rogue/1 shadowdancer, good at hiding but not as good as the other two below.

Mollycoddle (not full name): gnome, 8 level wizard, has a magic item that grants her invisability and with her flying and some other spells she is pretty much undetectable.

And the cherry on top!
:mitd: Hike: drow, 7 fighter/1 shadowdancer, when preparing his character I said that he could have "hide" and "move silently" as class skills because he had been hanging out with his sister Iliana, but it is now the other way around, he is the best at nonmagical concealment in the party.


Not that I do not like this, (I find it very funny), but I am having trouble trying to challenge them because they put the not-so-sneakey in the portable hole and slip past things that might be a hard fight.

So, I was wondering if any playgrounders have some advice for me?

[Antonok]

Blindsense, blindsight, scent, tremorsense, or if your really evil, faerie fire and/or glitterdust spells are good tactics to root out the sneakys. Heck, theres even the option of making brightly lit rooms with no debris or anything to hide behind.

Hiding is generally pretty easy to get around once whatever they're fighting is aware that they have company. This can be accomplished by alarm spells, or even a basic trip wire with bells on it (this might require a little DM fiat if you don't want them to detect it).

Once the enemy(s) know they're there, have them start actively searching and blocking all possable escape routes, or in some extreme cases start flinging vials of/casting glitterdust everywhere.

For the inviso-char, a see invisibility or faerie fire/glitterdust spell is probably your best bet.

Keep in mind you don't want to do this too often, otherwise you'll railroad your party too much and/or take they're fun away, and thats not good. But in cases where theres a battle you want them to fight (such as a boss or plot critical npc) then these are a few ways to get them to face the battle instead of going around it.

[The Glyphstone]

Monsters with scent, monsters with Blindsense/Blindsight, monsters with Tremorsense...

It's trivial to beat Hide/Move Silently if you really want to, and done right, it can even be done without obviously breaking versimilitude. At level 8, you've got:

-Dragons (Juvenile/Young in most cases) with Blindsense
-Hydras with Scent
-Some Ogres with a couple of tamed Dire Wolves (CR3 each, so you could bring 4 Ogres/Wolves for a CR7 fight, or tack a Barbarian level onto each Ogre for a CR8 fight).

There's plenty of magical solutions noted above, these are the sort of things you can use for random encounters.

[Choco]

Beating stealth is easy, but you REALLY need to think carefully about how often you do it. If most things the PC's come across can beat their stealth, they will feel shafted because their build choice and specialty has been effectively nullified.

I would suggest only sparingly using stealth-busting monsters/NPC's, at least until high levels where everyone and their mom are assumed to have some anti-stealth measures (at that point it is up to the PC's to counter those counter-measures themselves).

Instead, throw some objectives their way that they can't sneak past, like the good ol' cliche "kill X monster/NPC" quest, or a hostage rescue. Their stealth will still help out quite a bit, but they will not be able to rely on it all the time. Basically give them encounters that they wont want to sneak past and ignore.

[Toliudar]

Another way to help with this situation is to provide the occasional situation where everything is hidden. Fog. Opaque liquids. dungeons with short corridors and hairpin turns. It doesn't completely nerf their investment in hiding, but adds complexity to it.

[Sebastrd]

My advice is don't do anything. Your players seem to be having a good time. If it isn't bothering you a whole lot, let it go. Eventually they'll get bored and move on to something else.

If you do throw in some enemies with tremorsense and the like, do so sparingly. You don't want to send a message that no matter what your players come up with, you'll find a way to conteract them and ruin their fun.

[Ason]

You can even give their stealth skills a chance to shine, maybe give them an "Ocean's 11" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean%27s_Eleven_(2001_film)) or "The Italian Job" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_job) heist scenario that they have to fulfill. Heck, even if they're in the middle of a war campaign, you could always go "Kelly's Heroes" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly's_Heroes) on them.



I am Dming a party that is very good at not being seen.

P.S. I really hope your phrasing is in reference to Monty Python's sketch on the same subject (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ). Growing up, that was one of my favorite bits.

[Accordion Twome]

Thanks for the advice!
I'll be careful not to over do it.
Toliudar that is a very cool idea, I think a dungeon full of fog will be a good challenge.

P.S.
Yes, it is a joke from Monty Python,
maybe I should just ask them to stand up!:smallbiggrin:

[Wyntonian]

That just gave me a decent idea. You could have a vampire or spellcaster or some such notice them and not let on, then cast some Enchantment, command, suggestion, etc., and tell them to reveal themselves. Bonus points if you ask them to stand up. Biggest "Oh fiddlesticks" moment they'll ever have.

[Gabe the Bard]

You could set up a few situations where they are enticed into an encounter or otherwise think that it is something weaker than it actually is. Once they get into a fight, it's harder to sneak out. Have a seemingly minor monster show up with a few minions, but give them an ace up their sleeves. This should also be done sparingly, so they don't get too paranoid and try to avoid every single encounter.

[Anderlith]

Lights. You can only roll Hide if there is something to hide in.

[LansXero]

interactable surfaces should work (like half-flooded corridors, mud for footprints to be left behind, leaky ceilings with oily slime falling down on them, making them more easily spotted, etc) to keep them at least creative when hiding. And make it so they have to interact with telling stuff (creaky doors, heavy levers, etc etc.)