Is Evocation the best specialty school for a ray specialist?

[danzibr]

As the title asks.

Specifically, I'm making a Spellwarp Sniper. I noticed a lot of the ray spells are evocation... so should I go evocation? Or does it not matter too much? It's just a +2 bonus.

[NNescio]

As the title asks.

Specifically, I'm making a Spellwarp Sniper. I noticed a lot of the ray spells are evocation... so should I go evocation? Or does it not matter too much? It's just a +2 bonus.

You are a Spellwarp Sniper. You can already turn other (instantaneous udration with a range greater than touch) spells into rays.

[Tvtyrant]

I would say yes; most of the spells you can convert into rays are going to be evocation.

[King Atticus]

I would recommend going Sorc instead of Wizard. You don't have to worry about save DC's with a ray specialist and when you find the spell you want to use you're going to want to be able to spam that bad boy like crazy. Plus the extra spells a Sorc gets are nice since you are only hitting one person at a time instead of area effects. It's a fun build though, I went Sorc/Spellwarp/Incantatrix get the metamagic variant for early on and then at 12 take rapid metamagic and you can wreck stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

Depends on what other features you can get for your specialization. Spellwarp Sniper itself doesn't really care- a lot of your warpable spells are going to be Evocation, so you probably don't want to ban it, but other than that it doesn't make a difference. You could go Conjuration and grab the traditional Conjurer goodies just as well (there's a fair number of Spellwarp-applicable attacking Conjurations too.)

[ericgrau]

I'd stay wizard for quicken, or else use the PHBII trick that lets you quicken as a sorc. At the very least you can save spell slots by quickening cantrips and relying on sneak attack damage. This is almost essential by ~level 7-10 IMO. I assume quicken lets you sneak attack twice, or am I wrong about this?

I'd get both evocation and conjuration for the orbs of make no sense (assuming you play with those, but that's another topic). But most things aren't resistant so your main option is scorching ray (even with sneak attack only applying once), with everything else as backups for resistant foes.

[Acanous]

some Necro spells lend themselves to rays well, but they deal ability damage, and you wouldn't get to sneak attack. Good to keep in mind, though.

[Jopustopin]

Conjuration is the best for spellwarp sniper.

[ericgrau]

some Necro spells lend themselves to rays well, but they deal ability damage, and you wouldn't get to sneak attack. Good to keep in mind, though.
You still get sneak attack on ability damage spells. It becomes negative energy HP damage. Ya necromancy has some uber no save debuffs. I'd include some on your list. Ray of enfeeblement and enervation, empowering either, are a couple of my favs. For schools to ban I'd consider enchantment and abjuration. Maybe illusion or transmutation if you're desperate. You don't need those last 2 schools but your party might adore them. Heroism is a pretty good enchantment for anyone making attack rolls while abjuration has dispel and various resist things.

[Runestar]

I am rereading the prc entry, but am a little unsure of how ray-specific metamagic feats work with spellwarp. So can a wizard prepare say, a split ray fireball (to be later modified into a ray), or are rays converted this way unable to benefit from such feats at all, because they can't apply metamagic feats spontaneously?

If so, then sorcs seem like a somewhat better choice? :smallconfused:

[Quietus]

some Necro spells lend themselves to rays well, but they deal ability damage, and you wouldn't get to sneak attack. Good to keep in mind, though.

Actually, they do. Spells like Ray of Enfeeblement and Shivering Touch, delivered as a sneak attack, would have their normal effects, plus your sneak attack worth of.. I think it's negative energy damage.

[faceroll]

Actually, they do. Spells like Ray of Enfeeblement and Shivering Touch, delivered as a sneak attack, would have their normal effects, plus your sneak attack worth of.. I think it's negative energy damage.

Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't deal any kind of damage, so you wouldn't get sneak attack on it.

[TroubleBrewing]

This is slightly on-topic, but we discovered in another thread that you can actually apply Fell Drain to Enervate, because negative levels deal actual HP damage (which is required to apply Fell Drain).

[faceroll]

This is slightly on-topic, but we discovered in another thread that you can actually apply Fell Drain to Enervate, because negative levels deal actual HP damage (which is required to apply Fell Drain).

Is -5 HP the same as 5 damage?

[edit]
From the SRD:
A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:

-1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
-1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-5 hit points.
-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.



It's no damage, it's a -5 HP penalty. I suspect that it lowers your total number of HP.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Sorcerer is the best due to Wings of Flurry (RotD). It's technically evocation, but it's sorcerer only. Uncapped CLd6 force damage and daze on a failed reflex save. If the mailman wants to do damage and no-save disable, he goes SwS4 before Incantatrix.

If you're adamant about playing a wizard, conjuration offers no-SR damage, but evocation offers Frost Breath for (once again) daze on a failed reflex save. Only d4 per two caster level cold damage, though. I'd definitely keep both schools, but if I had to play a wizard/sws, I'd specialize in conjuration. It's useful for more than just ray conversion anyway.

[candycorn]

And whatever school you specialize in, Focus Specialist (Comp Mage) will put your sheer number of spells about on par with sorceror.

[flumphy]

And whatever school you specialize in, Focus Specialist (Comp Mage) will put your sheer number of spells about on par with sorceror.

Incantarices have to ban an additional school, though, so if you're going that route Focused Specialist may not be the best idea.

[DeAnno]

In highish OP games (where things have real touch AC and SR and other bad stuff) a big reason you'd want to Spellwarp Sniper as a Sorc is Arcane Fusion, since you can get out a True Strike or a True Casting to go with your ray in one action.

Of course, Sorcs do not lose caster levels well, so depending on how roguey you want to be Wizard might be viable too. And as a wizard, I'd definitely say Conjuration (even though evocation can get more of a bad rap than it's due sometimes).

[candycorn]

Incantarices have to ban an additional school, though, so if you're going that route Focused Specialist may not be the best idea.

4 schools banned? Can't choose Divination or Abjuration?

Keep Conjuration / Evocation / Divination / Abjuration.

Ban the rest. Losing Transmutation hurts... But you get a lot of bonus spells.

[DeAnno]

This four schools banned tomfoolery is why DD Incantrixes should really be sorcerers instead of wizards. :smalltongue:

[candycorn]

This four schools banned tomfoolery is why DD Incantrixes should really be sorcerers instead of wizards. :smalltongue:

You still have more versatility than a sorceror. Sure, there are some things you can't do, but even with just conjuration, a wizard can do a LOT.

Alternately, work it into a shadow gnome build, and only use Illusion, haha.

[Runestar]

Sorcerer is the best due to Wings of Flurry (RotD). It's technically evocation, but it's sorcerer only. Uncapped CLd6 force damage and daze on a failed reflex save. If the mailman wants to do damage and no-save disable, he goes SwS4 before Incantatrix.

If you're adamant about playing a wizard, conjuration offers no-SR damage, but evocation offers Frost Breath for (once again) daze on a failed reflex save. Only d4 per two caster level cold damage, though. I'd definitely keep both schools, but if I had to play a wizard/sws, I'd specialize in conjuration. It's useful for more than just ray conversion anyway.

The way I read it, because spellwarp removes the reflex save, there is technically no reflex save to fail. So would the foe still get auto-dazed, or is the daze effect never triggered at all? :smallconfused:

[Tyndmyr]

As the title asks.

Specifically, I'm making a Spellwarp Sniper. I noticed a lot of the ray spells are evocation... so should I go evocation? Or does it not matter too much? It's just a +2 bonus.

Do it up. Focused specialist Evoker.

Why? Spell quantity. That's the critical thing. You get spells faster than the sorc does, and you can still have rays in spades.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I remember in reading in Complete Arcane I think on weapon-like spells and sneak attack. Basically, anything that needs an attack roll is a "weapon-like" spell and thus Sneak Attack can be applied assuming the conditions are met. The Sneak Attack damage is the same kind of damage the spell does unless it gives out negative levels, then its just negative energy damage. So, a ray that deals Strength damage with sneak attack will do the sneak attack dice as strength damage as well. Sorry, went back and read it (page 86), ability damage or negative levels deal negative energy sneak attacks, energy damage deals the same type sneak attack.

[TurtleKing]

All I have is a ray that could be useful. Seeking Ray. Evocation, 2nd level, medium range, no saving throw, SR yes, ray, 4d6 electricity, ignores concealment and cover but not total versions, no penalty to firing into melee, and makes a link adding +4 for ray spells 1 round per CL. So not great damage overall but does help when you need help hitting your target.

[King Atticus]

All I have is a ray that could be useful. Seeking Ray. Evocation, 2nd level, medium range, no saving throw, SR yes, ray, 4d6 electricity, ignores concealment and cover but not total versions, no penalty to firing into melee, and makes a link adding +4 for ray spells 1 round per CL. So not great damage overall but does help when you need help hitting your target.

I second this. With my sniper this is the first thing I cast.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The way I read it, because spellwarp removes the reflex save, there is technically no reflex save to fail. So would the foe still get auto-dazed, or is the daze effect never triggered at all? :smallconfused:Well, let's look at the entry:
Even if the original spell allowed a Reflex save to reduce or negate its effect, the ray does not.Clearly the effect remains, but the reflex save goes away. Automatic daze, as long as you get past touch AC, SR, spell immunity, globes of invulnerability, forceward and ray deflection.

[TurtleKing]

Oh just thought of some more ray spells. The Light of Lunia/Mercuria/Venya are good especially in an undead/evil outsider heavy game. A no saving throw medium range spell that lasts 10 minutes/ CL as a light spell. When you fire one of the two bolts the light dims by half. So you have a light spell that you can attack with. Light of Lunia does 1d6 per bolt or 2d6 per bolt against undead or evil outsider. Light of Mercuria ups the damage by a 1d6 and 2d6 per bolt respectively. Light of Venya increases by same amount over the Mercuria. So Light of Venya against the right type can deal 6d6 per bolt totaling for 12d6 from a level 3 spell. Oh I forgot to mention this is also a Cleric spell with one extra benefit for them. If divine is casting then the you can also have slightly more powerful healing than a CLW at medium range PER BOLT.

tl;dr If playing in a evil outsider and/or undead heavy campaign Light of Lunia/Mercuria/Venya are quite powerful.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, let's look at the entry: Clearly the effect remains, but the reflex save goes away. Automatic daze, as long as you get past touch AC, SR, spell immunity, globes of invulnerability, forceward and ray deflection.

What sorcerer doesn't take Heighten spell? It is the only way to keep your lower level spells useful at higher levels (and if you are going blaster route, you will take rapid metamagic ASAP)

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

What sorcerer doesn't take Heighten spell? It is the only way to keep your lower level spells useful at higher levels (and if you are going blaster route, you will take rapid metamagic ASAP)Mailmen are often feat strapped, and Arcane Spellsurge + Metamagic Specialist can replace Rapid, but yeah, I just threw in globes for fun. Forceward and Ray Deflection (and maybe delay death/beastland ferocity) are more common, since you can move out of those.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The beauty of being a spellcaster is that you have several other ways of raining death (Orb of fire/acid)