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Ranger Mattos
2011-09-09, 10:08 PM
I'll be DMing a game for 3-4 friends in a little bit, and it's my first time being a DM besides one-shot dungeon crawls. Is there anything important that I need to know or think about while I'm designing the campaign and adventures? What about for during the game?

Specifically, this is going to be a 4e game, so any advice specific to that edition would be great, too.

Savannah
2011-09-09, 10:38 PM
In no particular order (except for #1 and #2):

1) You will mess up. Guaranteed. Don't sweat it when you do. (And, depending on how you messed up, if you roll with it, your players may not ever notice :smallwink:)

2) Your players will do things you never expected. The best defense against this is not to try to plan for all contingencies (impossible), but to plan in broad strokes and be willing to improvise.

3) Be careful of epic storylines; they have a tendency to turn into railroads. They're certainly doable, but you can't plan them like a book (the PCs will do [x], then [y], and so on -- see point 2). Instead, try figuring out what the villain's plan is, what they need to do to accomplish it, what their personality is (so you know what things they will and won't do), and what will happen if the players don't interfere. Then when the players do interfere, you can have the villain react appropriately to whatever they do, instead of pre-scripted events (that likely will never happen, as the players will have already run off to do something different).

4) If there's any sort of critical information the players need to have, give at least three clues. That way, if (when) the players miss one or even two, they'll still get the information they need.

5) The players are not your enemies, although you may be playing a character who is their enemy. Make sure everyone (including you) is having fun and be willing to change things if someone isn't.

6) Never, never, never make the PCs feel useless or redundant. This means: No DMPCs who you have to include because they're so cool. No taking away PCs' powers just because they're inconvenient for you to work around. No preventing the players from winning because you don't want them to win just yet/you love the villain/whatever. Now, that being said, you can certainly put the PCs in situations beyond their control, but make sure they have a way to get back in control, and sooner rather than later.

7) If at all possible, when the players ask to try to do something, say yes. Now, "yes, but you'll have to roll high" and "yes, but that will likely have some bad consequences" are perfectly fine, so it's not saying that they should succeed at everything. However, what you don't want to be doing is saying no to anything you're not prepared for, as that's highly frustrating.

Can't help you with the 4e stuff, as you know :smalltongue:

shadow_archmagi
2011-09-09, 10:51 PM
1. Think about the game a lot. When on the bus, etc. Try to have all kinds of ideas and plans when you get to the table.

2. Remember that nothing will go as planned. If you want your characters to go on a train, be completely aware that they're well within rights to ignore the train.

3. Remember that they'll only play this game once. Like, remember how in Fable, if you don't kill Twinblade, he hires some assassins to kill you, and if you do kill twinblade, some assassins show up to avenge him, and it felt like a total copout that no matter what you did, the same thing happened?

Your uh, your players will never know. If you've got assassins planned, go ahead and just have their next action trigger assassins. If you had a murder mystery planned for the train, just put it on the boat. Or the airship. Or the wagon.

4. Never let your players know you're doing this. They want to feel like they're having a big impact on the story, and it's important to indulge that. Possibly the worst conversation you can have with a player is

"And then the deadly zombie bites you!"
"What? But we made friends with them!"
"Oh, right, sorry. Let's rewind that. I got a little ahead of myself, I didn't expect you to ally them. *Ahem*"
"And then the deadly zombie-hater bites you!"

Theoretically, if you have enough plans and ideas, you can mix and match in such a way as to use pre-made ingredients to create a meal that feels appropriate for the situation.

Jjeinn-tae
2011-09-09, 10:53 PM
4) If there's any sort of critical information the players need to have, give at least three clues. That way, if (when) the players miss one or even two, they'll still get the information they need.

6) Never, never, never make the PCs feel useless or redundant. This means: No DMPCs who you have to include because they're so cool. No taking away PCs' powers just because they're inconvenient for you to work around. No preventing the players from winning because you don't want them to win just yet/you love the villain/whatever. Now, that being said, you can certainly put the PCs in situations beyond their control, but make sure they have a way to get back in control, and sooner rather than later.

7) If at all possible, when the players ask to try to do something, say yes. Now, "yes, but you'll have to roll high" and "yes, but that will likely have some bad consequences" are perfectly fine, so it's not saying that they should succeed at everything. However, what you don't want to be doing is saying no to anything you're not prepared for, as that's highly frustrating.

All great advice here, though I wish to add to these three. :smallbiggrin:

4): Quite frequently they will miss the third two (or dismiss it or what-not). Make sure if they need supplemental information to have a backup if they miss them; as in other information that they can discover as well. That way if they are gathering information and completely miss certain things, they still have something to work with. While that's absolutely required for a mystery, it's quite helpful elsewhere as well.

6): This one is probably among the absolute most important that Savannah said. They players worked hard for their tricks, if the rogue is dominating everything you throw at her and then all the enemies are undead, constructs and plants (immune to precision damage in 3.5, which I come from) she's going to feel targeted; and would be right. That's not to say you can't use them when it makes sense, but always give a character something to do. If the rogue can't sneak attack, maybe there's some machinery in the room to tinker with to make the fight easier for the others... She just needs to figure out the puzzle first.

7): Eh, mainly just want to emphasize this one; let them try their crazy schemes. They often border on complete insanity, but hey, they're entertaining for everyone, and make things memorable even if they fail. I ran a solo campaign once and during an escape, the player turned and threw a torch into the highly flammable swamp city that housed the evil cult (you know, the kind on stilts). Worked well to lessen the chase, but man were they angry about that.

Still that player's favorite event of the campaign even if it didn't work out in the long run. :smallbiggrin:

Ranger Mattos
2011-09-09, 11:06 PM
In no particular order (except for #1 and #2):

1) You will mess up. Guaranteed. Don't sweat it when you do. (And, depending on how you messed up, if you roll with it, your players may not ever notice :smallwink:)

I knew this one already. During one of the one-shot dungeons I mentioned I had done with one player, I messed up big time (read: I left the dungeon notes in view and he looked at them when I went to get a drink). Wasn't easy to get past that one. I need to work on my improv.


2) Your players will do things you never expected. The best defense against this is not to try to plan for all contingencies (impossible), but to plan in broad strokes and be willing to improvise.

3) Be careful of epic storylines; they have a tendency to turn into railroads. They're certainly doable, but you can't plan them like a book (the PCs will do [x], then [y], and so on -- see point 2). Instead, try figuring out what the villain's plan is, what they need to do to accomplish it, what their personality is (so you know what things they will and won't do), and what will happen if the players don't interfere. Then when the players do interfere, you can have the villain react appropriately to whatever they do, instead of pre-scripted events (that likely will never happen, as the players will have already run off to do something different).

Good to know. I still haven't planned out the whole campaign, but I'm planning on doing the basic adventure in the DMG (called Kobold Manor) and continuing on somewhere from there.


5) The players are not your enemies, although you may be playing a character who is their enemy. Make sure everyone (including you) is having fun and be willing to change things if someone isn't.

Dang it, you mean I can't sic Orcus on them at level 1? :smalltongue:


3. Remember that they'll only play this game once. Like, remember how in Fable, if you don't kill Twinblade, he hires some assassins to kill you, and if you do kill twinblade, some assassins show up to avenge him, and it felt like a total copout that no matter what you did, the same thing happened?

Your uh, your players will never know. If you've got assassins planned, go ahead and just have their next action trigger assassins. If you had a murder mystery planned for the train, just put it on the boat. Or the airship. Or the wagon.

4. Never let your players know you're doing this. They want to feel like they're having a big impact on the story, and it's important to indulge that. Possibly the worst conversation you can have with a player is

"And then the deadly zombie bites you!"
"What? But we made friends with them!"
"Oh, right, sorry. Let's rewind that. I got a little ahead of myself, I didn't expect you to ally them. *Ahem*"
"And then the deadly zombie-hater bites you!"

Theoretically, if you have enough plans and ideas, you can mix and match in such a way as to use pre-made ingredients to create a meal that feels appropriate for the situation.

So not exactly railroading. Less of a book with an exact plot, and more of a flowchart with multiple options leading to an event?


All great advice here, though I wish to add to these three. :smallbiggrin:

4): Quite frequently they will miss the third two (or dismiss it or what-not). Make sure if they need supplemental information to have a backup if they miss them; as in other information that they can discover as well. That way if they are gathering information and completely miss certain things, they still have something to work with. While that's absolutely required for a mystery, it's quite helpful elsewhere as well.

6): This one is probably among the absolute most important that Savannah said. They players worked hard for their tricks, if the rogue is dominating everything you throw at her and then all the enemies are undead, constructs and plants (immune to precision damage in 3.5, which I come from) she's going to feel targeted; and would be right. That's not to say you can't use them when it makes sense, but always give a character something to do. If the rogue can't sneak attack, maybe there's some machinery in the room to tinker with to make the fight easier for the others... She just needs to figure out the puzzle first.

7): Eh, mainly just want to emphasize this one; let them try their crazy schemes. They often border on complete insanity, but hey, they're entertaining for everyone, and make things memorable even if they fail. I ran a solo campaign once and during an escape, the player turned and threw a torch into the highly flammable swamp city that housed the evil cult (you know, the kind on stilts). Worked well to lessen the chase, but man were they angry about that.

Still that player's favorite event of the campaign even if it didn't work out in the long run. :smallbiggrin:

All duly noted.

Another question for those people who can actually help me with specifically-4e questions:

Since there will be only 3 or 4 players in the game, how should I make up for the missing roles? Should I include a DMPC to fill a spot, or maybe (if there are only 3 players) let each player have two PC's for a total of six PC's, or what?

Savannah
2011-09-09, 11:20 PM
I knew this one already. During one of the one-shot dungeons I mentioned I had done with one player, I messed up big time (read: I left the dungeon notes in view and he looked at them when I went to get a drink). Wasn't easy to get past that one. I need to work on my improv.

Um...that would be more a player problem than a DM problem.

Ranger Mattos
2011-09-09, 11:23 PM
Um...that would be more a player problem than a DM problem.

Yeah. Although it was sort of my fault that they were left where he could see them, I must remind him this time that doing so shall cause him to be banished from the game. Or suitably punished.

doctransilvania
2011-09-10, 05:58 AM
Since there will be only 3 or 4 players in the game, how should I make up for the missing roles? Should I include a DMPC to fill a spot, or maybe (if there are only 3 players) let each player have two PC's for a total of six PC's, or what?
I'm against DMPCs so the options i can think of are:

1) tailor the encounters on them (they don't have healers: the battles should be less deadly);
2) flood them with magical items that do the same things as the missing party member :smalltongue: (no healers: potions and things like that).

Amphetryon
2011-09-10, 08:52 AM
This may seem similar to "no railroading" but is different enough to warrant separate mention, IMO:

Don't have only one possible way to solve a problem. If there's a door that they absolutely must open, don't have it so the only way to do it is via the key around the neck of the half-ogre guarding the hallway; your players WILL sneak past him or miss the key on a Search check or find some other way to not have the key available, at which point both you and the party are stuck.

Yora
2011-09-10, 10:28 AM
Start simple.

We all want to run 6 year long epic story arcs, but that's just not how most campaigns progress, especially when you're a new GM.
Instead it's best to focus at one shot adventures for the beginning. You can use NPCs from the village where the PCs are staying again in the next adventure, and when they meet an enemy they decide to let go and not kill or imprision him, he might show up again in a later adventure.
But at first, start with a one shot adventure and once this is over, start with thinking about another adventure for the same characters. When you think you got the hang out, progress to mini-campaigns consisting of three or four adventures end to end.

Those are not quests to Bring the Ring to Mordor or Defeat the Empire of Evil, but it's much more enjoyable when you get small things done than to have big things that don't get anywhere.
Think more of making the game like the Indiana Jones movies, than the Star Wars saga.

In my oppinion, missing roles in a party are not a problem. I have played some very nice games without a real healer or no arcane spellcasters at all. Instead have the PCs face challenges that they can overcome with those characters they have. If there is no rogue, just use no traps and highly secured doors they have to pick. If there is no cleric, don't use lots of undead and have the quest-giver give them also a box of healing potions so they can complete his task.

Hanuman
2011-09-10, 11:50 AM
http://www.feartheboot.com/ftb/index.php/archives/category/podcasts/regular-episodes

4e is almost the same as not even playing an RPG in terms of roleplay, and the combat pretty much runs itself.

I would say that some pitfalls include fairness, being too forgiving when **** gets tough, limiting players too much or bringing personal feelings into the game.

I know that I've struggled through the years to become more sadistic with my DMing, and I'm about comfortable where I'm at.

Squish the hell out of your players, ESPECIALLY 4e players, they can re-roll within 5 mins with the char generator so make the battles intense but fair.

Don't change things too close to where they are interacting, formulate it so it feels like the world is solid and not made of whim.