Warforged armor

[Akto]

Hello there playgrounders

I have a player who is going to play a warforged, wants to take this feat

Unarmored Defense Proficiency
You have a general knack for protecting yourself when you are unarmored and your flesh is exposed to attack
Benifits: Your base AC (Normally 10) is increased by a bonus determined by your level when you are unarmored. This bonus does not stack with any armor bonuses granted by armor. When wearing armor this bonus is not applied. The bonus is supplied below:
Level Bonus
1-2 +3
3-5 +4
6-8 +5
9-11 +6
12-14 +7
15-17 +8
18-20 +9
Special: This bonus is applied even when your character is caught flat-footed or is denied his dex modifier to his AC. This bonus is an increase to the character's base AC and thus not named.

and we had a small talk about wheter or not it would stack with his +2 armor bonus for being warforged?

[Baka Nikujaga]

http://i52.tinypic.com/qn1lqa.jpg
Unless the Warforged character has taken the Unarmored Body feat or otherwise removed his or her Composite Plating, the Warforged is considered to be armored. This is specified in the Composite Plating description found on page twenty-three of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

[Legendairy]

Where can I find this feat?

Edit: Nevermind I think I found it in Swashbuckling Adventures

[Runestar]

Seems like the bonus would supersede (ie: not stack with) the composite armour bonus, going by the wording. :smallfrown:

[Legendairy]

It's a feat from 3.0 I think and the system has not been "upgraded" to 3.5. In 3.5 they break down what stacks and what doesn't a bit better, how I'm reading it tho he would have to strip his armor plating, saying it's armor not nat ac. So it's your call as DM but I don't think I would allow I personally.

[Akto]

Unless the Warforged character has taken the Unarmored Body feat or otherwise removed his or her Composite Plating, the Warforged is considered to be armored. This is specified in the Composite Plating description found on page twenty-three of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

That was my reading of it aswell, but wouldn't that also mean that warforged would lose things like monk wis bonus to AC?

(Problem is that i can't just say no, the feat will not be allowed, as i had already approved it for one of the other players)

[etrpgb]

Yes, Warforgeds do not have the Bonus AC of Monks or any power that does not work while light armored.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Yes, Warforgeds do not have the Bonus AC of Monks or any power that does not work while light armored.

Thats why he goes Swordsage!

[NEO|Phyte]

Yes, Warforgeds do not have the Bonus AC of Monks or any power that does not work while light armored.

Incorrect. A warforged's default plating is only considered light armor for the purpose of abilities that let you ignore arcane spell failure. It does not hamper monks.
:edit: actually, looking at the wording of the composite plating, not even that, any ability that lets you ignore ASF in light armor also applies to the default plating's ASF.

[etrpgb]

(Problem is that i can't just say no, the feat will not be allowed, as i had already approved it for one of the other players)

Do not worry, the feat is fine. Overall if you intend to make an adventure with ships and water. It might be hateful to see your whole party drown.

The important fact is: ``This bonus does not stack with any armor bonuses granted by armor. When wearing armor this bonus is not applied.''
So no armor and it does not stack with anything different from armors that give armor bonus like bracer of armor.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just make a ruling that it does not stack with any bonus typed Armor Bonus. That means wearing armor, composite plating, Mage Armor, etc. would not stack with that bonus, the character would use the higher of the two.

[Baka Nikujaga]

That was my reading of it aswell, but wouldn't that also mean that warforged would lose things like monk wis bonus to AC?

(Problem is that i can't just say no, the feat will not be allowed, as i had already approved it for one of the other players)

http://i54.tinypic.com/200whs1.jpg
Hmm...did I misread the trait? I think I did...since I found this:

Is a warforged considered to be wearing armor for the purpose of using special abilities, such as a monk’s fast movement?
The composite plating of a typical warforged doesn’t count as armor. Certain warforged feats, such as Adamantine Body (ECS 50) specifically state that the character is considered to be wearing armor, and thus would limit use of such abilities.

*The FAQ can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a).

But, regardless, it is probably as Runestar said (as they both provide Armor Bonuses).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Do not worry, the feat is fine. Overall if you intend to make an adventure with ships and water. It might be hateful to see your whole party drown.

The important fact is: ``This bonus does not stack with any armor bonuses granted by armor. When wearing armor this bonus is not applied.''
So no armor and it does not stack with anything different from armors that give armor bonus like bracer of armor.

The AC bonus from Bracers of Armor doesn't stack with armor. Does that mean it's light armor?

[The Cat Goddess]

The AC bonus from Bracers of Armor doesn't stack with armor. Does that mean it's light armor?

No, it means it's an "Armor Bonus".

So a person wearing a Robe of the Arch Magi (+5 Armor Bonus) would not receive that bonus if they were also wearing Bracers of Armor +6. Only the higher bonus would apply.

Thus, the Robe's bonus (+5) would apply if they were wearing Bracers of Armor +4... but the Bracer's bonus would not in that case.

A character with that feat would gain the feat's bonus if it is higher than the bonus of any Bracers of Armor they wore... but then, they would not gain the bonus from the Bracers.

It should also be noted that, as listed in the Magic Item Compendium, the item "Robes" can be enchanted with Armor Bonus just like Bracers... but does not count as "Armor" for the purposes of things like Monk abilities or proficiencies.

So, if your Wizard needs his arms free for a specific magic item, he can get "Robes of Armor" instead of "Bracers of Armor".

Which, IMHO, is much more appropriate for spellcasters and some Monks.

[Hiro Protagonest]

No, it means it's an "Armor Bonus".

-snip-

That wasn't a question. That was a response.

[tyckspoon]

http://i54.tinypic.com/200whs1.jpg
Hmm...did I misread the trait? I think I did...since I found this:


Indeed. The default Composite Plating is not armor- it's a racial feature. It has some things in common with armor, but you are not required to take Unarmored Body/Ironwood Body if you want to be a Warforged Monk or Druid. The other X Body feats do interact with classes as if they were armor, but that's because the feat says so. The property does not ascend backwards to Composite Plating.

[etrpgb]

Here is the point:
``
Composite Plating (Ex): The plating used to build a warforged provides a +2 armor bonus.
This plating is not natural armor and does not stack with other effects that give an armor bonus (other than natural armor).
This composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a warforged cannot wear armor or magic robes. A warforged can be enchanted just as armor can be. The creature must be present for the entire time it takes to enchant him.
Composite plating also provides a warforged with a 5% arcane spell failure chance, similar to the penalty for wearing light armor.
Any class ability that allows a warforged to ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor lets him ignore this penalty as well.
''

It occupies the same place of the armor, it gives armor bonus, it gives arcane spell failure... but it is not an armor? Wow, this is unexpected FAQ answer. So I can also make a Warforged Druid without problems?

[Greenish]

It occupies the same place of the armor, it gives armor bonus, it gives arcane spell failure... but it is not an armor? Wow, this is unexpected FAQ answer. So I can also make a Warforged Druid without problems?Of course. Being made with a plating isn't the warforged's decision, like wearing armour would be.

And it's not just FAQ, it's the RAW (and as far as I can parse, RAI).

[tyckspoon]

It occupies the same place of the armor, it gives armor bonus, it gives arcane spell failure... but it is not an armor? Wow, this is unexpected FAQ answer. So I can also make a Warforged Druid without problems?

It doesn't have Armor Check Penalty or a max Dex bonus, either. So yeah, it's not armor. It's also a special quality of the form and explicitly not Natural Armor, and is not worn/carried gear, so it sticks around when you wildshape. Makes a good way to get an Armor bonus and special armor properties on Monks and Druids.

[flabort]

Although if you have a better source of everything GOOD from warforged plating, that does not stack with the plating, as I read from from that feat your player, your plating is pretty much useless anyways. So you could either get it enchanted (sweet) or replace it.

I'd recommend getting it enchanted over anything else. Like...
Oh, shadow or silent moved might be useful for a hiding type character, or any "Resist", such as acid or fire.

[Vizzerdrix]

When wearing armor this bonus is not applied.


Yeah this is the part that gets me. The basic composite plating goes to great lengths to set itself apart in the description. It gives an AC bonus to armor but is not armor in and of itself, and the feat specifically calls out armor.


What book is that feat in anyways? It's cool.

[Cieyrin]

It doesn't have Armor Check Penalty or a max Dex bonus, either. So yeah, it's not armor. It's also a special quality of the form and explicitly not Natural Armor, and is not worn/carried gear, so it sticks around when you wildshape. Makes a good way to get an Armor bonus and special armor properties on Monks and Druids.

Not that those 2 qualities automatically make it not armor, as I can think of at least 1 piece of published armor that lacks either as well, not to mention shields, which typically lack a Max Dex unless they're a tower shield or some variant thereof. In any case, I concur, it's a racial feature, not a conscious decision to weigh themselves down.

[Zagaroth]

hummm, from reading that feat closely, it looks like the bonus WOULD stack with bracers of armor, as it only calls out not stacking with an armor bonus FROM ARMOR, not armor bonuses from other sources.

Just like a monk's AC bonus continues to work with Bracers of AC. Which I suspect is exactly as intended.

[Zagaroth]

hummm, from reading that feat closely, it looks like the bonus WOULD stack with bracers of armor, as it only calls out not stacking with an armor bonus FROM ARMOR, not armor bonuses from other sources.

Just like a monk's AC bonus continues to work with Bracers of AC. Which I suspect is exactly as intended.

[Tvtyrant]

It would stack with VoP armor bonus, and the monk armor bonus. Hmmm, I sense this feat would be good on a VoP druid.

[Zagaroth]

>.< I suspect RAI it was not supposed to stack with monk. Ah well, oversight on their part.

[hangedman1984]

>.< I suspect RAI it was not supposed to stack with monk. Ah well, oversight on their part.

but monk is already overpowered, this will just make it worse






...[/sarcasm]

[panaikhan]

As far as I remember, the body plating feats that improve the Armour Bonus don't have Armour Check Penalties.
It states that the Warforged 'receives a penalty to certain skills', NOT 'receives an Armour Check Penalty'. Granted they sound the same, but in certain situations (swimming, for example), it can work out quite different.