Warforged Incarnate Construct X LA0

[etrpgb]

I was reading the LA0 races list and I saw there are no Warforged Incarnate Construct X.

Warforged (Monster Manual III 190 ),
Incarnate Construct ( Savage Species 120 ).

As you might know a Warforged Incarnate Construct has a LA of -2, so it is just natural to add other templates to reach LA0. Here I want to make a list of the interesting solutions.
We use the MMIII version of Warforged. With Incarnate Construct you lose all the special qualities: composite plating, light
fortification, living construct traits and you become an humanoid instead of a construct. Lets gain something back!

Here I put the obvious characteristics, there might be more. For example Shadows Creature can have Evasion as race.

...Winged: +4 Dex, +2 Cos, -2 Cha. 30 feet walk, 50 feet fly (quality depends on DEX). Savage Species pag. 137
...Shadow Creature: +2 Cos, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. 45 feet walk. Total cover if not in daylight. Lord of Madness pag. 167
...Dark Lolth-Touched +6 Str, +8 Cos, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. 40 feet walk. Fearless, Hide in Plain Sight. Tome Of Magic pag. 161, Monster Manual IV pag. 93.

So, what is your advice? Apply _acquired_ templates to the Warforged Incarnate Construct to have LA0!
Please avoid LA0 templates are they are available to any idea.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You could use two +1 LA templates, such as Dark Creature (Tome of Magic) and Lolth-Touched (MMIV), which combined grants Hide in Plain Sight, +12 Hide, and +10 Move Silently in addition to the other (significant) benefits.

[Greenish]

Or something like incarnate construct half-minotaur half-ogre warforged scout (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11573674&postcount=41).

[etrpgb]

Lets avoid LA0 templates, they are always available. But a Half-Minotaur something is probably another good idea.

[Big Fau]

I was reading the LA0 races list and I saw there are no Warforged Incarnate Construct X.

Probably because a 1st level character cannot afford the kind of cash it requires to cast Incarnate Construct, the spell required to gain the template in the first place. It's as expensive as Wish is.

[etrpgb]

Background.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Background indeed, the same reason a 2nd level character could have Mineral Warrior.

However, adding inherited templates that cannot be applied to a pre-incarnate Warforged is a bit of a can of worms. Since Incarnate Construct's -2 LA cannot put your total LA below 0, you cannot use it to negate a LA you gained after applying Incarnate Construct. Since there's no such thing as a Half-Minotuar Warforged, since that cannot be applied to Constructs, you cannot negate its +1 LA as part of the -2 LA for Incarnate Construct. That's even assuming you could convince your DM that you gained the acquired template first, and then were born as a Half-Minotaur.

[etrpgb]

I was thinking the same about inherited templates...

[Jack_Simth]

So, what is your advice? Apply templates to the Warforged Incarnate Construct to have LA0!
You keep stat changes and movement modes, but lose basically everything else of importance - so you want stuff that will compliment your chosen class route.

[Lateral]

Or something like incarnate construct half-minotaur half-ogre warforged scout (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11573674&postcount=41).

Why is that Warforged Scout instead of just regular Warforged? I can't think of a single advantage there.

[etrpgb]

You keep stat changes and movement modes, but lose basically everything else of importance - so you want stuff that will compliment your chosen class route.

I wrote it in the opening post, you lose special qualities. The point of the list is helping players, they might see something good for them.

[etrpgb]

Why is that Warforged Scout instead of just regular Warforged? I can't think of a single advantage there.

Small? Dex bonus?

[Jack_Simth]

I wrote it in the opening post, you lose special qualities. The point of the list is helping players, they might see something good for them.
Special attacks and special qualities... so why do you list the benefits of fearless and total cover when not in daylight, evasion, and so on, in your listing of samples?

So someone wanting to be a spellcaster might enjoy an Incarnate Construct(Phrenic(Warforged)), in that it's a cheap-ish +2 to all mental stats.

[Randalor]

Unfortunatly, I don't have the books with me right now, but why can't you play a half-minotaur Warforged if you fluff it as something akin to an experimental or a variant model?

[etrpgb]

The fundamental assumption is that there is a moment where you can apply your acquired template on the Warforged Incarnate Construct when it still has -2 of LA and before the (min 0) applies.
If the DM states that is not possible there is no point at all.

The point is that you lose special qualities of being warforged and you gain the new ones. Of course many results can be difficult to accept for the DMs anyway, but that is not the point of the list. After all also the LA0 list contains races that I hardly believe they will be accepted.


Edit.

Unfortunatly, I don't have the books with me right now, but why can't you play a half-minotaur Warforged if you fluff it as something akin to an experimental or a variant model?
For sake of simplicity, no Inherited templates. It is hard to say that you started to exist when you become an Incarnate Construct.

Edit Edit.
Oh, sorry. You did not put the Incarnate Construct. Then you are not LA0, beside I do not think you can apply the half-minotaur to a construct.

[Greenish]

Why is that Warforged Scout instead of just regular Warforged? I can't think of a single advantage there.Two size increases. Half-ogre and half-minotaur both specify that you get the ability score bonuses from the template and the ones from increased size category. Neither bumps your size if you're already large, so you'd have to start small.

Of course, half-ogre is LA 0 if you're already large, so that could work, too.

[Lateral]

Two size increases. Half-ogre and half-minotaur both specify that you get the ability score bonuses from the template and the ones from increased size category. Neither bumps your size if you're already large, so you'd have to start small.

Of course, half-ogre is LA 0 if you're already large, so that could work, too.
I guess. Thing is, the bonus for Small to Medium is only +4 strength and +2 CON; if Half-Ogre is LA 0 if you're already large, there's no disadvantage in going regular Warforged and adding Lolth-Touched.

...Of course, it doesn't really matter.

[tyckspoon]

The only things you can reliably use the Incarnate Construct Warforged trick with are templates, inherited or acquired prior to Incarnate, that can be applied to Constructs. Everything else requires either incorrectly applying the rules or a very, very generous GM call. And 'templates that Constructs qualify for' is a pretty short list- Draconic is the only one I know of in easy recall, and it alone isn't worth what you give up on the Warforged's special qualities (on further research, Lolth-Touched works as well and fits well with Incarnate Construct, as its primary benefit is a hefty Str/Con bump. The Always Chaotic Evil from it is kind of a downer if you're trying to get it in play in most groups, tho.)

[No brains]

Step One: IN YOUR BACKGROUND, have a wizard who has done one of those infinite money exploits.

Step Two: Have them create your character as a warforged.

Step Three: Have the wizard apply the incarnate construct to the character.

Step Four: Have the character voluntarily fail the save when the wizard applies the Half-construct template to the incarnate warforged, making them a construct again.

Step Five: Profit.

[Zonugal]

Step One: IN YOUR BACKGROUND, have a wizard who has done one of those infinite money exploits.

Step Two: Have them create your character as a warforged.

Step Three: Have the wizard apply the incarnate construct to the character.

Step Four: Have the character voluntarily fail the save when the wizard applies the Half-construct template to the incarnate warforged, making them a construct again.

Step Five: Profit.

Or how about this?

Step One: Realize that Warforged are already made from *PLOT*

Step Two: Simply say that some one was able to modify a creation forge to transform warforged into humanoids.

Step Three: Have the warforged simply exit one forge into another one.

Step Four: Profit.

[Urpriest]

The only things you can reliably use the Incarnate Construct Warforged trick with are templates, inherited or acquired prior to Incarnate, that can be applied to Constructs. Everything else requires either incorrectly applying the rules or a very, very generous GM call. And 'templates that Constructs qualify for' is a pretty short list- Draconic is the only one I know of in easy recall, and it alone isn't worth what you give up on the Warforged's special qualities (on further research, Lolth-Touched works as well and fits well with Incarnate Construct, as its primary benefit is a hefty Str/Con bump. The Always Chaotic Evil from it is kind of a downer if you're trying to get it in play in most groups, tho.)

Most of the Half X templates can be applied to (living) constructs, and are inherited.

[Big Fau]

Step One: IN YOUR BACKGROUND, have a wizard who has done one of those infinite money exploits.

Step Two: Dodge books.

Step Three: ???

Step Four: Profit.

Fixed that for you. Because that's what would happen.

[tyckspoon]

Fixed that for you. Because that's what would happen.

Oh, right. Forgot about those because most of them are not terribly impressive once you use Incarnate Construct to rip out all of the special features, and they often have LAs high enough that you're still LA +2 or 3 even after getting Incarnated.

[Big Fau]

Oh, right. Forgot about those because most of them are not terribly impressive once you use Incarnate Construct to rip out all of the special features, and they often have LAs high enough that you're still LA +2 or 3 even after getting Incarnated.

To be fair, it can be unbalanced if you do it right. At least compared to every other LA: 0 race every printed.


Seriously, the only time I can see this flying at all is if the DM is allowing Frank & K's Tome series.

[Morph Bark]

But a Half-Minotaur something is probably another good idea.

Half-Minotaur Half-Ogre Incarnate Construct Dragonborn Warforged Scout?

EDIT: Ohey Greenish, what a nice link you have there. :smallbiggrin:

[No brains]

Fixed that for you. Because that's what would happen.

I WILL HAVE SO MUCH REDUNDANT DR, NO BOOK CAN HARM ME! [crunch!]

Seriously, the best option when trying to get a good race for a first-level character is to have a DM who can competently challenge you based on your abilities. 3 normal goblins for some dwarves is equal to 3 superman/ dozens of goblins for a not-robot-giant-thing.

BOOKS, ROCKS, MONITORS, BRING EM ALL!

[TwylyghT]

Well if your going double plus good there is Saint from the BoED.

[Jack_Simth]

Well if your going double plus good there is Saint from the BoED.
Saint requires you have several levels already... and Incarnate Construct will *HURT* if applied to you under that circumstance (you lose your special attacks, special qualities, skills, and feats by some readings... and spells are usually considered special attacks...).

[etrpgb]

Once again, we assume you can put the template after becoming humanoid, but before the LA min 0 applies.

@TwylyghT. Saint is not available until level 6. Check the BoED pag. 29.

[Jack_Simth]

Once again, we assume you can put the template after becoming humanoid, but before the LA min 0 applies.

@TwylyghT. Saint is not available until level 6. Check the BoED pag. 29.
In the specific case of Saint, you have to have the hit dice before becoming one. Even if you apply the templates simultaneously (which is explicitly not how multiple templates are handled (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingMoreThanOneTemplate) - it is phrased "To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time.") you have to have the levels before you add the templates - so you lose out on all those feats... including the ones that let you qualify for Saint in the first place.

[marcielle]

Note that in Eberron, they have wacky things like a half-UNDEAD. You want a half-minataur warforged? Just say one of those wacky houses experimented with new warforged shapes. Heck, say a Daelkyr tossed a warforged into one o their mutation chambers.

[Morph Bark]

One of my players currently is playing a Dragonborn Draconic Warforged.

The fluff is basically exactly the same as what everyone who is talking about magical experiments is saying.

His master is aiming to create undead warforged, half-warforged and were-forged.

[TwylyghT]

Bah, sorry I just remembered the +2 part, :(