Your Favorite Discipline? (Brawn, not Brains)

[NeoSeraphi]

Note: This discussion is not for psionics or psions.

Hello Playground! Because I'm curious, I decided to ask what everyone's favorite discipline of the Sublime Way was? Whether you like to SUUUUUURGE, or roll Concentration checks for damage, whether you like to rip people in two with your claws or throw someone over your head?

Please post your favorite discipline, as well as your favorite maneuver from that discipline, as well as your reason for both. (I wonder how many will choose Stone Dragon?)

If you're going to choose a homebrewed discipline, that's fine, but could you please also include your favorite of the original 9 from Tome of Battle as well?

My favorite discipline is Shadow Hand, because I greatly enjoy the assassin characters I can make from it. The Shadow Hand discipline gives me all the deadly sneaky strikes that I wanted from the ninja, rogue and assassin classes, from dealing extra damage, to Constitution damage, to invisibility.

My favorite Shadow Hand maneuver is definitely One with Shadow, for many flavor reasons. An assassin may be called upon to attack a king or a mayor or someone else of high importance, and not every important person's guards are going to be equipped with magic weapons. Becoming completely immune to mundane attacks for a full round can give you all the time you need to escape. Also, when I picture this happening, I see a guy slowly dissolving into the ethereal, and an attacker's blade going right through him, just a second too late to touch him. Major awesome.

Edit: Also, if you rolled up a Master of Nine, what kind of interesting discipline combinations would you use that you normally couldn't? (All the swordsage disciplines becoming available to a warblade, along with Devoted Spirit)

[Curious]

Iron Heart, without a doubt. BY CROM!

As for homebrew disciplines, I'm quite partial to Coins Edge, by The Demented One.

EDIT: Oh yes, now that it's been mentioned, White Raven Tactics is probably my second-favorite discipline.

No, I did not misspell that.

[Lord Ruby34]

White Raven and Setting Sun are pretty much my favorite ToB disciplines, with White Raved coming out slightly ahead. Iron heart is pretty BA too.

My absolute favorite is the Demented One's Army of One though.

[NeoSeraphi]

No favorite maneuvers?

[DeAnno]

Diamond Mind. And Diamond Nightmare Blade is the coolest thing I feel like I've never truly and fully taken advantage of.

Add to that a stance with extra actions, saves in a can, blindsense as a stance, there's a ton of cool stuff there.

[Curious]

No favorite maneuvers?

Edited previous post, check it. :smallwink:

[Lord Ruby34]

Oh, that's War Master's charge beyond a doubt. The image that inspires is just too awesome to spoil with words. Army of One is pretty awesome too.

[Chilingsworth]

White Raven is my favorite discipline, solely for White Raven Tactics.

[NeoSeraphi]

Thanks Curious. And I agree Ruby, War Master's Charge is perfect for Helm's Deep oneshots (Gandalf is a gestalted Crusader//Wizard)

[Big Fau]

Desert Wind, if only for sheer style. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpIDqutzd4&feature=player_detailpage#t=29s)


Tiger Claw and Setting Sun otherwise.

[Zaq]

One thing I love about ToB is that every time I pick a favorite discipline, I stick with it for about the length of the current discussion, then migrate over to a new one. Very few of them are really boring or objectionable (even Stone Dragon has its charm . . . how can you scorn that which brought us Mountain Hammer?), which really speaks to how well-designed the book is. In short:

Desert Wind is probably my least favorite, since "HAHA SWORD ON FIRE" doesn't do much for me, but I like their movement-based techniques.
I have nothing bad to say about Devoted Spirit. There's a Crusader in my current campaign who has no right to be alive, but Devoted Spirit makes them just completely unkillable. I also like how broad it is. It's a strong contender for my favorite school. The only thing about it is that it doesn't have any maneuvers that stand out as being superspecialawesome; instead, the majority of them tend to be about equally awesome, with a couple outliers on either side. Still awesome. Also, it comes the closest to making the 4e-style "defender" archetype actually viable in 3.5, which I much appreciate. (Everyone drools over Thicket of Blades, and while Thicket is awesome, I'd like to mention Iron Guard's Glare. There's a large chunk of your career where a –4 to hit is an even more powerful deterrent than "move and get smacked.")
Diamond Mind is a contender for style points, and it's a great defensive discipline, which I like. I appreciate how it does everything from making your normal damage irrelevant (Insightful Strike) to multiplying your normal damage (Ruby Nightmare Blade) to multiplying your attack routine (Time Stands Still). I also really like their stances.
Iron Heart . . . when it's good, it's great. When it's boring, it's utterly forgettable. That said, since you have enough room to just take what you want and leave the rest, I certainly wouldn't look down on an Iron Heart-focused character. Also, all together now . . . IRON HEART SUUUUUUUURRRRRGE!
Setting Sun is probably my favorite in terms of sheer style. I love the reactive nature of it, and hurling people around the battlefield absolutely never gets old. My only complaint about it is that some of the crunch is a little bit weak in places . . . no specifics are leaping to mind, but I remember coming away with that feeling. Still, throwing people. Always amazing.
Shadow Hand feels incomplete to me. What's there is cool, but it feels like there needs to be more. Basically, it makes a great secondary discipline, but it doesn't seem like there's enough to make it your primary discipline. That said, what a secondary discipline it is! It's hard to match it for the sheer utility it provides (even beyond the teleports), and its stances are all pretty much fantastic. I especially like Island of Blades, but it's always so hard to choose.
Stone Dragon . . . we all know its shortcomings, but it's there when you need it (well, unless you're flying). It's reliable. I like that. Also, Mountain Hammer is amazing. It should never be your first choice for getting past a door (or making a new one), but it's a fantastic tool to have in your back pocket. (We sometimes call it the Stone Dragon Lockpick.)
I can never decide if I like Tiger Claw more for making TWF better or for including such delightful mechanics as "make a Jump check against your target's AC." It's got some really neat stuff to it. That said, the RAW DAMAGE focus is a little bit of a turn-off for me, since I like a little bit of subtlety in my combat, and the nondamaging parts of Tiger Claw tend to fall behind. That said, I love that I can't see any reason why I couldn't use Sudden Leap in midair.
White Raven is awesome, and definitely a contender for my favorite school just for the tactical potential it has. It's unfortunate how much it relies on your party, of course, but when it works, it's glorious beyond compare.

That . . . ended up being rather different from what you were asking for, but once I had started, I wanted to finish. That said, my current favorites are probably Setting Sun, Devoted Spirit, and White Raven, but really, they're all awesome, even Desert Wind (my least favorite . . . but if I were to make a Swordsage tomorrow, I'd still probably take some maneuvers from it).

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ehh its a toss up... favorite manuvers are insightfull strike(and its upgrade) and death mark. Death mark because I think that would look cool. and Insightful strike because I am a huge fan of the chronicles of Riddick and All I can think of when ever I use or here about somebody using the ability is the god damn Tea cup scene.

[Eldariel]

I think I like Diamond Mind the best. My favorite maneuver is quite possibly Moment of Alacrity.

EDIT: Though points for Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation STRIKE! And Time Stands Still.

[flumphy]

I'm torn between Iron Heart and Diamond Mind. Yeah, there are awesome maneuvers in all disciplines, but most of may favorites on concentrated in those two.

Iron Heart has some awesome counters and boosts and ways to mitigate botched rolls. It would be in the running for me even without the notorious Iron Heart Surge. Diamond Mind also gets some great counters at low-level, and things like Hearing the Air, Stance of Alacrity, the gem series, and Time Stands Still give it a lot to love later on.


My favorite maneuver of all? Well, Wall of Blades certainly gets style points for letting you deflect a spell with your sword. But in the end, I have only one thing to say.

"BY CROM!"

[faceroll]

I really like the mobility tiger claw gets you. Swift action jumps is basically a free action. But I am going to have to pretty much agree with Zaq's analysis. Spot on.

[Firechanter]

Very tricky question, since most Disciplines are appealing, and several maneuvers mesh well with each other (especially Strikes and Boosts), so saying any one thing is best would be doing injustice to a lot of other things. Also, not only is not every Discipline available to every class, but some Disciplines work better for one class than the other.

From a Warblade perspective:
The combination of Dancing/Raging Mongoose and Pouncing Charge is pretty much my favourite. However, these are pretty much the only reasons why I'd take Tiger's Claw.

I guess my favourite Warblade discipline overall would be Diamond Mind, for its good mix of offensive and defensive maneuvers.

What might also be of interest is which Discipline I miss most in the Warblade portfolio. And that would be Shadow Hand. This Discipline has some very interesting Stances for stealthy characters, and the short-range Teleports are just golden. I'd definitely expend a Feat to buy Shadow Blink when reaching IL 13.
(Of course, Devoted Spirit also has some very appealing stuff -- that is exactly what I meant in my prelude that it's difficult to pick a favourite.)

[Andreaz]

Setting Sun wins for style, I love the elusive defense types, and hurling people around is just cool.
Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw tie for second, the latter for TWF.

[AmberVael]

Diamond Mind, definitely.

While Iron Heart has some decent maneuvers, and Devoted Spirit has some cool stuff, and Shadow Hand is definitely worth dipping into, Diamond Mind is worth it all the way through. Its counters are useful, its offensive maneuvers are worthwhile, and I really love Stance of Alacrity.

It's cool, too. It's like the essential discipline for any philosophical warrior, the character that has mastered mind and body until they're basically indistinguishable.

[Psyren]

Setting Sun, my kung fu is strong :smallbiggrin:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Shadow Hand is definitively my favourite discipline, I just like the stealth archetype that much; but I usually combine it with Tiger Claw to shush the little part in me that wants to rip my enemies to shreds, some of those maneuvers are extremely good for damage.

Diamond Mind and Iron heart do get an honourable mention, the former because it is fun to combine pounce, bounding assault, dancing mongoose and insightful strike (class feature) and the gem blade line. The latter because I simply love the image of using wall of blades and obviously IROOOOON HEARTTTT SUUUURGE!.

[Eldan]

Shadow hand, probably, for the Teleport maneuvers, but I also have a great love for Tiger Claw. I don't think I've ever built a ToB character without Sudden Leap.

Tiger Claw for ripping out entrails, in a sophisticated way.

As for homebrew disciplines... Dread Crown, Black Rain, Dancing Leaf... I could probably name a dozen I love.

[Cespenar]

I'm rather partial to Golden Saint, by The Demented One.

Official sources? Setting Sun and Diamond Mind.

[Dusk Eclipse]

For homebrew I am rather fond of Cthonic Serpent (a discipline based on using chain like weapons) by DragoonWraith and Steel serpent from ErrantX

[NeoSeraphi]

Zaq and Firechanter make good points, so let me posit another question (which I will also add to the OP after I post this):

If you rolled up a Master of Nine, how would you combine the normally uncombinable disciplines in new and interesting ways? (Iron Heart with Shadow Blade? Devoted Spirit with Setting Sun?)

[Krazzman]

It's sad that I couldn't convice my DM's to allow even Maneuvers and Stances, but my preference is Iron Heart and White Raven.

Have a nice Day, Krazzman

[ScrambledBrains]

I have long been an lover of ToB, ever since my old DM showed me it and all the cool things the classes therein were capable of(He was a Warblade fan, incidentally.). And, having played a Swordsage and loved every minute of it, I can freely tell you my fav. Disciplines

Number One-Diamond Mind-This is my favorite for one simple reason. Not the, awesome though they may be, Insightful Strike line, the gem line, or even Time Stands Still. No, I love this discipline for the simple manuvers which substitute a Concentration check for a save, ones which when chosen for the right class can completely shore up their save defenses in a massive way.

Number Two-Shadow Hand-Instant stealth, teleportation, awesome stances and ways to weaken my opponents? Hell yeah! :smallbiggrin:

Number Three-Setting Sun-Trust me, judo flipping your opponents into each other or into walls never gets old.

Number Four-Tiger Claw-Swooping Dragon Strike. That is all. :smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

Thanks Curious. And I agree Ruby, War Master's Charge is perfect for Helm's Deep oneshots (Gandalf is a gestalted Crusader//Wizard)
Gandalf is more of a Crusader/Divine Crusader - a full wizard (Saruman) trounces him, but he can still stab people with swords and cast spells when the need arises.