Flying Cleric of Doom!

[MesiDoomstalker]

Inspired by this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214866), I decided to make a Raptorian Cleric into Skypledged for a camapaign that may, or may not start soon (long story). Starting at 10th level.

I want him to be a bruiser cleric, bashing in skulls and what not. I'm perferctly fine doing DMM: Persist Divine Power among other spells but no Nightstick abuse. I can use A Nightstick to increase my total by 1 but no more.

I have Cleric 5/??? 2/Skypledged 3 for starting using Racial Sub levels as appropriate. My question/advice I seek from my dear playgrounders, is it better to find another PrC for levels 6 and 7 or take the last Racial Sub level at 7, what feats to take, or just plain build suggestions. Many thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

NOTE: Party makeup is unkown but it will be a small group around 3 people, so assume I'm filling the Divine Caster/Front-Liner role.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I want to focus on the Air/Flying aspect so flavor suggestions for flying/lightning/etc would also be useful. Homebrewed Domains may be made (subject to DM approval of course) for more focused Domains than just the Air Domain (I find it lackluster). Any Domain suggestions are welcomed. I won't be worshiping a specific diety unless it provides 2 good domains. Looking at SRD only, Air, Strength, Travel, and War are the only ones that fit thematically and provide something worthwhile (except maybe Air).

EDIT the 2nd: Here is the build so far.

Raptoran Cloistered Cleric 7 (with sub levels)/Skypledged 3.


Feats:
1: Power Attack, Extend Spell, Persist Spell

3: DMM: Persist

6: Travel Devotion

9: Extra Turning

I'm going to be using a +1 Changling Spear with other mods, +1 Mithral Breastplate with other mods and of course a Nightstick. With a 16 base Cha, Cloak of Cha +4, extra turning and the Nightstick totals for 16 Turns or 2 Persisted spells and 4 additional uses of Travel Devotion. Peripat of Wisdom +4 will be a neccisity and an item of continuous Reduce Person, to keep me at Medium (DM warned about how being Large constantly could be an issue). Any other suggestions for items? 49k budget, but just did calculations and thats 49152 GP without the Reduce Person item, or 51152 GP with Reduce Person item using custom magic Item rules.. :smallannoyed: Just found Greater Luminous Armor in BoED, which is better and frees up roughly 6k GP. So I've spent ~ 46000 GP so far. Also any suggestions on what other spells to Persist besides Divine Power?

[etrpgb]

Fist advice, go Cloistered Cleric instead of plain Cleric. You get 6 skill points per level, free Knowledge Domain, poor BAB, only light armors.

The BAB is not a great deal if you can use Divine Metamagic Persist Divine Power and if you want to fly you won't probably use heavy armors anyway.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Fist advice, go Cloistered Cleric instead of plain Cleric. You get 6 skill points per level, free Knowledge Domain, poor BAB, only light armors.

The BAB is not a great deal if you can use Divine Metamagic Persist Divine Power and if you want to fly you won't probably use heavy armors anyway.

I'm interested in it. My main hesitation is the cruddy HD. Ya a d6 is only slightly worse than a d8 but if I'm going to be buffing my self like that, I'll be dispel bait. Then I'll be left with horrible BAB, bad HP and without buffs. But, it does give me a bunch of free things so its a definate possibility.

[TehLivingDeath]

I wouldn't worry that much about dispelling: the are ways to protect yourself against the ocasional dispels, and if the DM is actively throwing them your way every encounter, that means something is wrong with him, not your character.

[MesiDoomstalker]

In regards to Domains, I was thinking Planning (for free Extend Spell) and Windstorm (for flavor and making me effectivly Huge for wind effects). Both are in SpC. Any thoughts on dieties?

[etrpgb]

Dieties? What is the setting?

About the domain, check the Time... It gives true strike, haste, time stop and Improved Initiative.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Dieties? What is the setting?

About the domain, check the Time... It gives true strike, haste, time stop and Improved Initiative.

Any setting. My group usually plays an universal setting that pretty much lets anything from any setting fly (some restrictions but dieties are not one of them that I know of). I saw Time and liked it. I was only considering Planning as the build is already strapped for feats and a free feat that I was going to take anyway is just awesome. But inversly, Time gives me much more. I can do a Cleric of an Ideal vs. a specific diety so I can have any combination of Domains, but a specific Diety is easier to get DM approval.

[etrpgb]

Time and Planning are very flavorful together. I can easily imagine a god of patience or vengeance.
Windstorm and Time seems harder.
Windstorm and Planning... even harder.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Once you hit level 15 definitely use DMM: Persistent Stormrage (SpC).

If you can use flaws, go something like Cleric 5/ Stormlord 3/ Skypledged, and get Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC) and take Brutal Throw (CV). Say the force javelins created by the gloves look like jagged bolts of lightning. You could get the War domain for the Weapon Focus prerequisite for Stormlord, and I'd get the Wrath domain with the PH2 ACF for it so you can use your Dive Attack with Rhino's Rush for x3 damage.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Time and Planning are very flavorful together. I can easily imagine a god of patience or vengeance.
Windstorm and Time seems harder.
Windstorm and Planning... even harder.

Windstorm and Time montra can be something like "Wait out the storm, see the rising dawn, another storm is always on the horizon." A "wait and see" approach to nature and weather.


Once you hit level 15 definitely use DMM: Persistent Stormrage (SpC).

If you can use flaws, go something like Cleric 5/ Stormlord 3/ Skypledged, and get Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC) and take Brutal Throw (CV). Say the force javelins created by the gloves look like jagged bolts of lightning. You could get the War domain for the Weapon Focus prerequisite for Stormlord, and I'd get the Wrath domain with the PH2 ACF for it so you can use your Dive Attack with Rhino's Rush for x3 damage.

My problem with Stormlord is I have to worship Talos (DM is hard to convince to re-work a pre-req such as that) and cruddy feat reqs. On top of that, flaws are iffy in my group so I can't really rely on them for making a build work. I MIGHT be able to snag 1 flaw and thus one bonus feat.

[flumphy]

The first deity that came to mind was Shaundakul (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shaundakul) from FR. He has the whole wind theme going on and offers the air domain, so the windstorm domain doesn't seem much of a stretch. And since he also handles caravans and travellers, planning is also plausible.

[MesiDoomstalker]

The first deity that came to mind was Shaundakul (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shaundakul) from FR. He has the whole wind theme going on and offers the air domain, so the windstorm domain doesn't seem much of a stretch. And since he also handles caravans and travellers, planning is also plausible.

OO! Nice catch, I can definatly work with him.

EDIT: How can I snag the War Domain without having a War Domain diety? Free Weapon Focus and proficiency with a Greatsword would work well with this build.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I've been playing around with feats and this is what I have so far.

1: Power Attack, Extend Spell, Persist Spell

3: DMM: Persist

6: Travel Devotion

9: Extra Turning

Thats assuming 1 flaw. Any suggestions or replacements?

[Hiro Protagonest]

EDIT: How can I snag the War Domain without having a War Domain diety? Free Weapon Focus and proficiency with a Greatsword would work well with this build.

Using a spear, shortspear, or javelin seems more flavorful. Plus greatsword can't be used for dive attacks.

[Greenish]

Shaundakul has a rather sweet PrC on his own, too, Windwalker from Faiths and Pantheons.

Back to the topic, taking Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment allows you to grab the granted power of any domain you want. That costs a feat, yeah, but gets you both proficiency and WF in greatsword.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Using a spear, shortspear, or javelin seems more flavorful. Plus greatsword can't be used for dive attacks.

:smallredface: Forgot that I can only use Piercing on a flying charge. Spear it is then.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Shaundakul has a rather sweet PrC on his own, too, Windwalker from Faiths and Pantheons.

Back to the topic, taking Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment allows you to grab the granted power of any domain you want. That costs a feat, yeah, but gets you both proficiency and WF in greatsword.

Where is this feat? It intrigues me.

[NNescio]

Where is this feat? It intrigues me.

The Planar Handbook, naturally.

[MesiDoomstalker]

The Planar Handbook, naturally.

Took a look. Pretty impressive. Particularly like the one about the Storm Lords as its thematic and useful. But that won't come online till after play starts and my DM allows it.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Question on stacking. If I used Greater Luminous Armor on myself (BoED), then Magic Vestments on my clothing, do they stack? Greater Luminous Armor gives an Armor bonus while Magic Vestments give an enhancment bonus. But, normally enhancment bonuses go ontop of and stack with the Armor Bonus of the armor its cast on (in the case of clothes, thats +0) so would the enhancment bonus be an Armor bonus from a different source and thus not stack with Greater Luminous Armor (or could the "armor" created by Greater Luminous Armor be targeted by Magic Vestments?)

[Greenish]

Enhancement bonus to armour increases the bonus from that particular armour (as per RC). Magic Vestments on robes and Luminous Armour would overlap, not stack, I believe.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Enhancement bonus to armour increases the bonus from that particular armour (as per RC). Magic Vestments on robes and Luminous Armour would overlap, not stack, I believe.

I should ask my DM if I could us Magic Vestments on my Luminous "Armor".

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I should ask my DM if I could us Magic Vestments on my Luminous "Armor".

Typically your Magic Vestment would target whatever already gives you an Armor bonus to AC. If you have no armor bonus currently, you would target your clothes as they're what grants your +0. If you have Luminous Armor cast, you would target that and add and Enhancement bonus to its armor bonus.

[MesiDoomstalker]

My morning regiment looks like this.


Prep spells
Greater Luminous Armor
DMM: Persisted Divine Power
DMM: Persisted Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
Greater Magic Weapon
Magic Vestments (possibly, pending DM approval)
Lesser Restoration (heal back Greater Luminous Armor's casting Component)
Prep spells

So I get 8 (maybe 11) AC bonus, -4 to all melee attacks, maxed BAB, +6 Str, +3 Morale Bonus to Hit and Damage to all allies in 30 ft, extra attack in a full attack to all allies in 30 ft, +3 to hit and damage with my Changling Spear. All day. All day massive AC bonus, enemey debuff, huge bonuses to hit and damage and haste to nearby allies. Not too shabby.

The difference in to-hit is: 3 improved BAB+ 3 Str boost+ 3 Morale+3 enhancment=+12

The difference to damage is: 3 Str boost*1.5+ 3 Morale+ 3 enhancment=4 or 5 depending on my Str score prior to boosting.

[Greenish]

You might want to persist Divine Power, too.

And you suffer the sacrifice damage from sanctified spells when they spell ends, not when you cast it, if my memory serves.

[MesiDoomstalker]

You might want to persist Divine Power, too.

And you suffer the sacrifice damage from sanctified spells when they spell ends, not when you cast it, if my memory serves.

Hmmmmmm, Divine Power ups my size and reach, gives a Str bonus (culmativly less than RWotF for hit and damage) bonus to con. That makes things difficult.

Divine Power gives more HP and reach which gives me amazing options and lets me attack far out of enemy reach in mid-air, while RWotF gives me and my allies larger bonuses to hit and damge plus extra attacks on Full-Round actions. I guess it would depend on where I would be adventuring in a given day. In a cramped dungeon? probably RWotF. n an open field? Divine Power.

Also, on sanctified spells, that means I won't be debuffed till or near the end of an adventuring day so I'll still need to have it prepared, I just won't have to cast it at the begining of the day. Plus even if I don't heal back all the damage, I can let natural healing restore an additional point. Which means even if I roll max damage and minimum recovery I will only be down 1 Str.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think you're confusing the names of spells.

Divine Favor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm) (1st level) grants a bonus on attack and damage.

Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) (4th) grants full BAB, +6 Str, and some temporary HP.

Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) (5th) grants a size increase, ability score increases, and DR.

Note that Divine Favor and Righteous Might got hit with a nerf bat in a wave of errata. Righteous Might's bonuses were halved, and Divine Favor's bonuses are capped much lower than what's printed in the PHB.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I think you're confusing the names of spells.

Divine Favor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm) (1st level) grants a bonus on attack and damage.

Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) (4th) grants full BAB, +6 Str, and some temporary HP.

Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) (5th) grants a size increase, ability score increases, and DR.

Note that Divine Favor and Righteous Might got hit with a nerf bat in a wave of errata. Righteous Might's bonuses were halved, and Divine Favor's bonuses are capped much lower than what's printed in the PHB.

:smallredface: Oops! Ok, Divine Power is gaurenteed casted every day and the debate is between Righteous Might and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. I'm going to go back and fix my earlier post. Divine Favor is only if I get a ridiclous amount of TU uses and fishing for something else to Persist.

Also, we rarely use Errata. We don't generally have access to it. We only use it to fix a serious flaw. My DM will go to Players Handbook for Righteous Might before he would go to SRD.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What domains do you have? If you get the Spell domain you can use Anyspell for DMM: Persistent Wraithstrike or Shield (or both with a 2nd level Pearl of Power). Later on when you get Greater Anyspell you can use it to DMM: Persist Draconic Polymorph into yourself for Str +8, and then Righteous Might afterward.

You can get more Turning uses with a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC) and by casting Eagle's Splendor just before buffing.

If you want to throw a bunch of gold into some character backstory cheese, you can get Extra Turning four more times. 1. Character died; 2. Character was Reincarnated (1280 gp) into an Elf; 3. Dark Chaos Shuffle the four elven weapon proficiency feats into Extra Turning (19,600 gp); 4. Get Miracled back into a Raptoran (1530 gp). That's 22,410 gp total for Extra Turning x4, less than the price of three Night Sticks.

[MesiDoomstalker]

What domains do you have? If you get the Spell domain you can use Anyspell for DMM: Persistent Wraithstrike or Shield (or both with a 2nd level Pearl of Power). Later on when you get Greater Anyspell you can use it to DMM: Persist Draconic Polymorph into yourself for Str +8, and then Righteous Might afterward.

You can get more Turning uses with a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC) and by casting Eagle's Splendor just before buffing.

If you want to throw a bunch of gold into some character backstory cheese, you can get Extra Turning four more times. 1. Character died; 2. Character was Reincarnated (1280 gp) into an Elf; 3. Dark Chaos Shuffle the four elven weapon proficiency feats into Extra Turning (19,600 gp); 4. Get Miracled back into a Raptoran (1530 gp). That's 22,410 gp total for Extra Turning x4, less than the price of three Night Sticks.

I'm looking at Windstorm and Time or Travel for the moment. Using Shaundakul as my Diety for the moment and going to ask my DM about allowing Windstorm and Time as domains he grants. I have doubts he will allow Time and he already grants Travel and he grants Air so Windstorm isn't far off.

On the note about backstory cheese, my DM will smell that stinky gouda a mile away and either nerf or out right ban it. But in case I can get away with it, where do I find Drak Chaos Shuffle?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's two spells in Fiendish Codex I, Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos. The first trades any feat you already have for any Abyssal Heritor feat you qualify for. The second trades any Abyssal Heritor feat you already have for any feat you pick that you qualify for. Thus you can trade an Elf's four racial martial weapon proficiency feats for any four feats you qualify for, provided you can get both those spells cast on you (likely by two different casters).

[MesiDoomstalker]

It's two spells in Fiendish Codex I, Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos. The first trades any feat you already have for any Abyssal Heritor feat you qualify for. The second trades any Abyssal Heritor feat you already have for any feat you pick that you qualify for. Thus you can trade an Elf's four racial martial weapon proficiency feats for any four feats you qualify for, provided you can get both those spells cast on you (likely by two different casters).

Ok, looking at those spells I could craft a convincing backstory for the Chaos Shuffle. The main hurtle here is having the DM allow it (convincing backstory is a plus) and that Elven proficiency's count as feats for the purpose of the spell.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I was just looking through Races of the Wild again and saw Lliendil, the Raptoran storm diety. It fits my flavor perfectly. It has the Sky domain (easily repleaced with Windstorm). Any way I can spin the fluff to convince my DM to include Time?

I was thinking about something like this:
"The Stormfather is a fickle master of the skies. His wrath can strike the weary or his mercy give them respite. The storm born of him approach but only time will tell his whims." Something around the lines of "wait to see how the storm plays out" line? Could that work?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ok, looking at those spells I could craft a convincing backstory for the Chaos Shuffle. The main hurtle here is having the DM allow it (convincing backstory is a plus) and that Elven proficiency's count as feats for the purpose of the spell.

Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#elves)


You could just not pick a specific deity, as per the PHB, and pick two domains that fit your character's religious outlook.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#elves)


You could just not pick a specific deity, as per the PHB, and pick two domains that fit your character's religious outlook.

I'm wary of doing so mainly because I know my DM will make me have a doctrine and hold me to it more so than if I were following a specific diety. Mainly because I had to put the effort into making a doctrine, he expects me to follow it. Plus he doesn't like how difficult a non-demoninational cleric is too fall (in his opinion). Any one who could help make a doctrine that incorporates Windstorm and Time would be apprieciated.

EDIT: Looking at Races of the Wild again, I found a cool little story about the main Raptoran diety defeating Lloth. I could be reincarnated into a Drow and become all masochist (?) and burn away my cursed Drow proficiencies in my self hatred trying to purge the affliction from "my body". Followed with getting the High Chieftian to allow a Miracle to fix me back to Raptoran (after extreme difficulty convincing them I'm not actually a Drow). Convincing?