[3.P] A PC dies. New PC for the same player. What happens now?

[Fenryr]

Hello!

In the very first session of my new campaign, a PC dies. The rest of the party only met him for a couple of hours of travel and two battles (he died in the middle of the second). They're not attached to him, as you may guess. And the player wants to make a new character.

Now, my previous DM had a rule: Your new character has 5,000 gold pieces less (Raise Dead tax, even when it's a new character) and one level below the party. Is this an official rule or something?

Personally I can accept a level lower. But why this new guy has to pay for someone's else Raise Dead? Is this official or in any book?

[CodeRed]

There's nothing official about this in any book. Your previous DM's rule seems a bit dickish if your going to bring in a new character. I get the level lower and gold cost if your going to Raise Dead because your attached to your current character but like you said, it's pretty crappy to make your new one pay for a "Raise Dead" that never happened.

[Douglas]

The is no official rule whatsoever for exactly how to handle bringing in a new character. Each group has to decide for themselves how to do it.

Your old DM's rule makes perfect sense in the context of preventing powergamers from using "new character time" as a way to circumvent Raise Dead's cost. The idea is that bringing in a new character should not have a clear game mechanical benefit for the player over getting your old one Raised. Whether this makes sense for your group in particular is a matter for you and your fellow players and DM to decide.

[Fitz10019]

I suggest you hold off from any such 'punishments' until 5th level or higher (if you use those houserules at all). Give the players time to get the hang of things.

[KoboldCleric]

It's the first session ... I'd probably cut the guy a break. For what it's worth, my group usually takes the manner of death into account when handling "death penalties". A player doing something stupid to bring about his own character's death to the detriment of the party vs. a player knowingly sacrificing himself for the good of the party: the two are usually handled differently.

[Fenryr]

The death occurred due to low HP (level 5, rolled three 1s and with a Con of 10, Cleric with 25 HP) and smart enemies (flanking and strong AoE). He's a good player so I think this happened only because of bad luck.

So, no official rule. Then I will let him make a level 5 and with the complete money. If another player dies on purpose (without being heroic) or for stupid actions, I will use that rule.

Thanks.

[Diarmuid]

I see the restrictions as both a penalty for the character dying and as a deterrent from someone trying to make a character and then getting killed so they can make another char at full WBL and then the party still has the original char's WBL to divvy out to the remaining group, thus giving the party and instant power boost.

For Low HP rolls, most of my groups have some form of insurance against that.

1) Roll normal, can request DM reroll at any time but must take new roll
2) Take have max, then roll HD normally and divide by 2 to add to half max. (d10 HD, 1d5+5 essentially)

[Fouredged Sword]

Most groups I play with go with average die roll rounded up (non-random HP) to remove the barbarian having 20 hp at 3rd level. When HP is a class feature that is important you don't need it being random.

I would suggest the DM let the guy reroll a new character. Give him maybe a -10% WBL tax, and then have the party get a little less wealth over the next couple encounters to balance it out.

Expecialy if with new players and at low levels.

[Karoht]

If a PC dies an no one in the party mourns, does the player make a sound?

[Alaris]

Well, the level lower rule can make some semblance of sense in the balance. I'd say, however, give him standard gold for his new, lower level (-1 Level). The party now has additional gold as far as WBL is concerned (the equipment from the dead guy), the 1 level lower thing will balance it out.

Another thing DM's usually do the 1 Level Lower thing for is for power gamers. If the rule is not in effect, some Powergamers will bring in a character with nifty equipment, then sacrifice the character, bring in a new character with full level & equipment, and have free extra equipment.

I've seen it before. Ain't pretty.

[Alaris]

The death occurred due to low HP (level 5, rolled three 1s and with a Con of 10, Cleric with 25 HP) and smart enemies (flanking and strong AoE). He's a good player so I think this happened only because of bad luck.

So, no official rule. Then I will let him make a level 5 and with the complete money. If another player dies on purpose (without being heroic) or for stupid actions, I will use that rule.

Thanks.

WOAH! Three 1's?

Okay, I have an official houserule I use to recommend to you man. Because HP is a very important thing, and you want your PCs to have a chance surviving.

On each Hit Die roll, I recommend allowing one reroll IF THEY ROLL A 1.

For example, Bob the Barbarian is rolling his second hit die. He rolls his d12, and gets a 1. He gets a free reroll, and instead rolls an 8. Not overpowered by any means, but it makes everyone happy, in general.

[Keld Denar]

To keep WBL from getting thrown out of wack when a character dies, I generally HIGHLY encourage the party to send the possessions of the deceased to their family or donate them to whatever cause or church the PC may have been dedicated to. This keeps the PCs from aquiring rediculous amounts of wealth simply by rerolling at full WBL. The surviving PCs don't have to, but they know that they'll be punished in future treasure rewards if they don't. I like to keep things pretty much in line for WBL, with gross imbalances evening themselves out in a few sessions for better or worse.

[Fouredged Sword]

I like the answer above about donateing the stuff or sending it back to his home. That way if the player has something the party really needs or wants they don't just lose it if they really want it. They can also get the scrolls and potions the player has (becuse they aren't that big of a deal in WBL).

Then the next time a item of that level is rolled on the random table you discard that result, leveling out WBL.

Simple and elegent.

[Fenryr]

WOAH! Three 1's?

I told him to roll again. He refused, thinking it was some kind of preference (because when that player is the DM, he's not flexible and if you got a 1, then you got a 1).

Although I never specified, no one can loot the PC corpse but the idea of taking potions and scrolls sounds nice. And if someone starts killing his own PCs just to change character, I will not allow it. I think that obscure purpose will be evident at second try.

Thanks again.

[Coidzor]

The surviving PCs don't have to, but they know that they'll be punished in future treasure rewards if they don't. I like to keep things pretty much in line for WBL, with gross imbalances evening themselves out in a few sessions for better or worse.

So if you automatically account for it anyway, what's it matter if they keep the spare cure light wounds wand? :smallconfused: It's like crafting, they get the treasure they want and/or need rather than having to rely on caprice and chance.


I told him to roll again. He refused, thinking it was some kind of preference (because when that player is the DM, he's not flexible and if you got a 1, then you got a 1).

Oh. In that case you may want to invest in a spray bottle.

We auto-reroll things that are below 1/2 the die -.5, so wizards can have 2-4 from the die, bards 3-6, clerics 4-8, fighters 5-10, and barbs 6-12 just to avoid that kind of situation because it's so out of line with the expectations and tone of the system.

[Pigkappa]

There's nothing official about this in any book. Your previous DM's rule seems a bit dickish if your going to bring in a new character. I get the level lower and gold cost if your going to Raise Dead because your attached to your current character but like you said, it's pretty crappy to make your new one pay for a "Raise Dead" that never happened.

I've seen a character die and the player building another character who was exactly the same to save those 5000 gold pieces.

If that player is going to do something like that, the 5k gp tax rule is necessary. In general, it's quite annoying. The characters shouldn't loot the dead companion, however (the DM should tell them that out of game, and find a way to remove his corpse and loot in game).

[Coidzor]

I've seen a character die and the player building another character who was exactly the same to save those 5000 gold pieces.

If that player is going to do something like that, the 5k gp tax rule is necessary.

Or you just make it so that people can't play the exact same character instead. Or you get out the spray bottle.

[Alaris]

I told him to roll again. He refused, thinking it was some kind of preference (because when that player is the DM, he's not flexible and if you got a 1, then you got a 1).

Although I never specified, no one can loot the PC corpse but the idea of taking potions and scrolls sounds nice. And if someone starts killing his own PCs just to change character, I will not allow it. I think that obscure purpose will be evident at second try.

Thanks again.

He...REFUSED? Are you kidding me?

Just because you're letting him reroll doesn't mean you expect HIM (when he is DM) to let you reroll. Just tell him that's one of the rules. You reroll 1's once on hit dice, PERIOD. For the balance of the game.

[Raendyn]

In the WotC campaigns, every player gets a fixed number of hit points based on their Hit Dice.

d4->2
d6->4
d8->5
d10->6
d12->8

They concluded this is the most ballanced. Rogues get a boost because they need to be up front. Barbarians too, but i don't rly know why :P

[Karoht]

If DM's and players alike want to avoid these situations, the DM should work with the players to create the characters in the first place, as it tends to avoid players bringing in characters with something they should not, the recycling of characters for loot purposes, and avoids creating poorly optimized or useless characters.

The rule I've used is, you are 1 level behind the party until the party levels up. At which time you level twice and catch up. But I don't track XP individually most of the time, unless I'm playing with a group where I can give out bonus XP for bright ideas or good roleplaying/acting.

[Talya]

It should be noted that if you're a level 7 party and this happens (assuming you don't just raise the dead character), coming back with party WBL -5000gp puts you ahead of WBL if just creating a level 6 character by 1000 gold.

[Coidzor]

He...REFUSED? Are you kidding me?

Just because you're letting him reroll doesn't mean you expect HIM (when he is DM) to let you reroll. Just tell him that's one of the rules. You reroll 1's once on hit dice, PERIOD. For the balance of the game.

Why would you re-roll 1s only once if it's for balance purposes? Shouldn't you instead re-roll every time you get a 1? What makes the second one less unbalancing than the first?

[archon_huskie]

First character of a campaign that dies on the first day of the campaign.

In this case, I would give the character a mulligan and have the new character have the same stats and equipment. maybe a different name and adjust a few skills points but otherwise the same.

Or since the abnormally low hp is the cause of death, raise the hp and say the character was merely knocked out.

character creation takes time and effort. It is better to recycle than to start from scratch.