Build Advice Needed for Worlds Largest Dungeon

[Abaddon87]

Hey playgrounders! As the title says, I'm currently in a game running through the WLD. Its myself, two friends and sometimes we have some help from DMNPCs. Right now we are 2nd lvl and playing Guestault characters. My build so far is Monk 2 // Fighter 1 / Mineral Warrior Template 1 (before it starts, NO I will not drop monk. I WANT to play monk 1-20 on one side of my character). My stats are:

STR 18
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 6

I plan on taking dungeon crasher on Fighter 2 and also taking both ACFs for Monk on lvls 3 and 4. My question is what to do with the non-monk side? Once I have Fighter 2, should I go Druid? Psy Warrior? I'm thinking something that will mesh well with my STR/WIS focus. I've never played a psionics character before but am willing to learn.

Any ideas or pointers would be much appreciated! (oh and please no spoilers for the module itself :smallcool: )

[TroubleBrewing]

Go Druid. The WLD requires a LOT of self-sufficiency. I'd skip that Fighter level altogether. Monk//Druid is actually alright.

[Gavinfoxx]

There was actually a HUGE thread about this sort of thing.

Basically, it said this: You need to ask the DM several pointed questions about the inconsistencies in the dungeon, what things and concepts he is banning (like Druid, I think they said flat out ban druid. They also say to ban battlefield control spells, yes, all of them, and say they wont be in the dungeon, and then a Web spell is promptly used against the party), and what he is doing regarding the inconsistencies of the banhammered advice and such in the dungeon.

I'll link to it when I edit this post momentarily

Ah! Here's the thread:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212580

[Abaddon87]

Well Grey, the Fighter levels are for the Dungeoncrasher ACF which is one of the reasons I pus STR so high.

And @ Gavinfoxx, I dont think our DM is really banning anything... So far the only wierd thing is this:

Summoned monsters dont *poof* after the spell ends, they are real creatures and become neutral/hostile depending on what it is and whats happening to it after the spell is over...

I like the idea of casting with Druid, but one of the biggest boons of Druid is its wildshape, which defeats the purpose of my high STR...

[Gavinfoxx]

Well... that's about a fifth of the banlist suggested in the book. Ask him pointedly about the rest of the issues, is he ignoring those suggestions? And read that WHOLE four page thread very very very carefully!

[Vizzerdrix]

Hello. I'm currently playing through it myself. Look into Ancestral Relic from Book of exalted Deeds. You'll find tons of mundane objects and won't have much trouble feeding the feat.

[Abaddon87]

Any suggestions for a LN character? I dont think the Relic feat will be an option for me :(

[Tvtyrant]

Have you considered Incarnate or Totemist? Both of them can function without loot, and they have alot of combat abilities and utility functions. Okay, so the Totemist doesn't have that many utility functions outside of a fluctuating skill set.

[Abaddon87]

Never played or even really looked at either of those classes. Are they based off WIS?

[Tvtyrant]

They are completely con based. Okay some charisma for the Incarnate, but mostly con.

They allow you to equip "melds" which are like psuedo-magic items that you make out of "essentia" which are kinda like power points. You have different slots you can equip the meld to, which are called "chakras." (The slots are the chakras). You can shape a meld without equipping it, which grants you skill bonuses and variable effects, but are generally weaker then the equipped melds. The reason for that is you can shape more melds then you have available chakras, so you can get a variety of bonuses on top of your magic essentia sword and wings, or shock gauntlets and dart flinger, etc.

It is my favorite system, and gets some really neat abilities.

[Abaddon87]

Hmmm that is interesting Tvtyrant... I do like CON :P

And reading that linked post from Gavinfoxx it seems like loot is going to be a big problem... Funny thing is I started this build using VoP but cut it because I wanted to be able to make my own gear and use magic items. Plus the other two characters (one PC the other DMNPC) are both Kobolds (Dragonwrought Sorc and a Cleric Healbot DMNPC) so I didnt want the whole "super holy guy traveling with two evil lizards" thing to be a problem...

[Pigkappa]

Summoned monsters dont *poof* after the spell ends, they are real creatures and become neutral/hostile depending on what it is and whats happening to it after the spell is over...


Wait, what? A good druid could summon hundreds of good creatures and politely ask them to help.

[Abaddon87]

We havent summoned any good creatures yet... only Fiendish Scorpion and a Fiendish Spider from the DMNPC Kobold Cleric

[Amphetryon]

Wait, what? A good druid could summon hundreds of good creatures and politely ask them to help.

It's one of the houserules that are listed in WLD as "strong suggestions".

Ask your DM about BFC spells; the book both bans and hands them out.

Dragonborn is a solid choice for you if you can, especially if you choose the breath weapon.

Warlocks and DFAs are as unto GAWDS in WLD. Ditto Warforged.

[Tvtyrant]

Warforged Incarnate or Totemist is particularly solid, since they get their own natural attacks, immunity, and don't have a con hit. All for LA 0 (I think it should be 1, but its 0 so your golden!)

[Gavinfoxx]

Any updates on which of the crazy list of houserules and suggestions the DM is enforcing?

An ability to pump useless wealth into an item via ritual and not crafting is CRAZY important in this dungeon.

[Abaddon87]

So here is an update so far. The two palyers (myself and a friend) and some DMNPCs have cleared about 1/2 of the first level after two sessions. For the party we have:

Kobold Paragon/Sorc//Dragon Something for my friend and a Human Mineral Warrior Fighter (going Dungeon Crasher ACF)//Monk for me.

We are 3rd level gestalt now.

For DMNPCs we have:

A Kobold cleric healbot, a dwarf fighter, and an orc (fighter probably, we found him cowering in a room and he follows us around now)

We still havent used summon monster much and when we did it was fiendish monsters. They stick around and go hostile after the foes are dead. The summoned spider we did one time was able to web so I'm not sure if AoE and CC spells are out or okay. Food seems to be handwaved as the DM hasnt made any issues with us not eating and says we arent hungry anyways. As far as treasure, we have a ton of mundane gear from looted dead orcs but thats about it. We found some rings and a potion and a feather... I think thats about it.

I'm looking at the Incarnum classes and it looks really interesting. Especially since I have a great CON... I'm still unsure however what I should do now that I have my 2 Fighter levels I wanted for dungeon crasher...

[Fouredged Sword]

Dip barbarian for pounce, then go totemist for the rest. Bind grallion arms to your totem chakra and go to town. Get Ancesteral relic for a nice magic item, I would suggest a belt that eventualy boosts str/con/wis and grants natural armor.

Craft skills and some time will get you a masterwork belt out of just about anything.

[Abaddon87]

Dip barbarian for pounce, then go totemist for the rest. Bind grallion arms to your totem chakra and go to town. Get Ancesteral relic for a nice magic item, I would suggest a belt that eventualy boosts str/con/wis and grants natural armor.

Craft skills and some time will get you a masterwork belt out of just about anything.

To bad I'm a Monk with a LN allignment... I would love to have some Barbarian in this build (and I love some of those totmeist binds like the Rage Claws!). I'm not worried about my AC (natural bonus from Mineral Warrior and Monk's Wis to AC and class AC bonus takes care of me very well). I just know we are gonna face lots of stuff and I need to be able to either improve myself with buffs or be flexable enough to adapt.

[Fouredged Sword]

Consider shapeshifter Druidic avenger and see if your DM will let you trade out the barbarian fast movement for pounce as you are getting that class feature to trade away.

Nothing like being a rageing bear with +8 str to make someone have a bad day. Not soulmelds stay while you shift forms so you keep your 4 claw attacks from grallion arms bound to your totem chakra.

[Abaddon87]

Is there a way to work Warshaper into this build? The immunity to crits/stunning/etc and bonuses to ability scores plus the self healing is all mighty tasty.

Would Druid qualify for this PRC? Is there some way to get the shapeshifter subtype (besides lycanthropy)?

[Fouredged Sword]

A dip into shapeshifer druid has you qualify all day every day. You don't need the shapeshifer subtype, just the ability to change shape.

[Abaddon87]

After looking at Warshaper, I wish I had played a Barbarian 15 / Bear Warrior 5 // Mineral Warrior Fighter 2 / Totemist 3 / Warshaper 5 / Frenzied Berserker 10

That would be a fun "*RAWR* I turn into a bear and eat everything... including possibly my own party mates" character!

[Dr.Orpheus]

in UA there is an alternate druid that gets monk like stuff if you gestalt that with scout you get the most awesome base land speed at level 20 30 base +30 from scout +90 from druid but same as monk +10 from druid but same as barbarian total 160 sad thing is you get no wild shape or animal companion and you get the monks wis bonus to ac in short you can rage to increase melee, good mostly defensive spells, have high ac, and speed all in one

[Gavinfoxx]

*tries to read Dr.O's post*
*barely succeeds*

Uhm. As best as I can tell, the OP's game isn't Gestalt, nor did the OP precisely say that he couldn't take normal druid (ie, his dm isn't enforcing most of the dungeon's nerfs). Also, the way the dungeon is designed, land speed isn't THAT useful -- it has lots of very small rooms. Also, there are much better ways of getting more speed. Also, I had difficulty reading your post, could you proofread it, perhaps?

[Abaddon87]

*tries to read Dr.O's post*
*barely succeeds*

Uhm. As best as I can tell, the OP's game isn't Gestalt, nor did the OP precisely say that he couldn't take normal druid (ie, his dm isn't enforcing most of the dungeon's nerfs). Also, the way the dungeon is designed, land speed isn't THAT useful -- it has lots of very small rooms. Also, there are much better ways of getting more speed. Also, I had difficulty reading your post, could you proofread it, perhaps?

It is a Gestalt game. Normal Druid would be fine. Right now I'm leaning towards the Druid with the shapechanging ACF so I can go into Warshaper. Do I really need the ACF though? Wouldnt wildshape qualify for the Warshaper?

And Dr. O... you win the award for longest run-on statement I've ever seen!

[Gavinfoxx]

Abaddon: Look at some of his other posts! They are impressive!

[Fouredged Sword]

Wildshape qualifies for warshaper, but requires 5 levels of druid to get and has limited uses, and warshaper doesn't increase your wildshape duration.

With wildshape you get the benifits of warshaper for 5 hours a day in a single stretch. You can change shape durring that time, but not back to human.

Shapechange ACF works with a single dip in druid, and you get to shapechange all day, gaining benifits from the warshaper class all day anytime you want. It's a less powerful form, but more useful to you and opens into warshaper much earlier.

I also suggest the druidic avenger varrient, becuse TWLD makes it very hard to get an animal companion once you are already inside, so you may as well pick up rage. It is one of the few ways to get rage while being lawful.

[Abaddon87]

Wildshape qualifies for warshaper, but requires 5 levels of druid to get and has limited uses, and warshaper doesn't increase your wildshape duration.

With wildshape you get the benifits of warshaper for 5 hours a day in a single stretch. You can change shape durring that time, but not back to human.

Shapechange ACF works with a single dip in druid, and you get to shapechange all day, gaining benifits from the warshaper class all day anytime you want. It's a less powerful form, but more useful to you and opens into warshaper much earlier.

I also suggest the druidic avenger varrient, becuse TWLD makes it very hard to get an animal companion once you are already inside, so you may as well pick up rage. It is one of the few ways to get rage while being lawful.

So Warshaper's class features like immunity to crits and stunning and the growing natural attacks only works when your in an alternate form? Thats not how I read it at all... and if thats true I'm very sad!

On a happy note though, Rage from an ACF would let my Monk // Fighter / Druid add some BEAR WARRIOR!

MOAR BEAR!!!1

[Fouredged Sword]

Some of them do work in any from. I am AFB right now so I can't say for sure what works when.

[JaronK]

Consider using Shou Disciple levels in place of 5 of the Monk levels (it's a Monk PrC, so it's appropriate here). That lets you use any weapon with your flurries. Now consider being a bulldozer, from here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

Run around smashing everyone to bits with your dungeoncrasher powers, and if for any reason you can't charge, flurry them into dust. Of course, you can't be a Barbarian due to the Monk thing, but that's okay... you get Improved Trip as a bonus feat anyhow from your Monk levels.

JaronK

[Person_Man]

My 2cp:

If you are going to go full Monk on one side, you should ask your DM if you can use variants and alternate class features. In particular, Pathfinder has rewritten the Monk and included a variety of different archtypes. If your DM is nice and allows you to mix and match the trade-off abilities of the different archtypes and alternate class features, you can cobble together a Tier 3ish Monk.

For the other side of your gestalt, any Tier 3 or higher class with at-will or all day abilities and melee synergy will work fine. That would be Druid, Wildshape Ranger, Binder, Incarnate, Totemist, Swordsage, Warblade, or Crusader.