Creating 'The Shield' Character

[Talonblaze]

I typically enjoy playing the guardian or the one who can take a solid blow, even if I can't deal it back. Survival of my other party members as well as myself is top priority.

So I was wondering, what feats would help make this possible for AC, Saves and anything else that would aid survivability against tacts? Also, what classes or races would be most suited?

I don't know how many player's take such a path since usually the raw damage and full power seems to be the thing people desire most along with flexibility.

Movement speed is also preferred if possible to get to where needed fast.
Anyone got such builds that make an 'untouchable' or 'shield'?

[Urpriest]

Crusader (Tome of Battle) is the classic for this, perhaps with a dip of Knight 4 (PHBII) or so. Iron Guard's Glare is the stance you want, penalizes your foes for attacking your allies. Crusaders are also very tough, having a number of defensive abilities and a delayed damage pool.

[Metahuman1]

The two classes that are generally considered to do this role best are Knight (D12 hit dice, class features that try to support wearing the heaviest heavy armor you can lay hands on and using a shield, and a class feature designed to keep enemy's form swarm attacking everything and make the big guys focus on you. )

And Crusader (Delayed Damage pool, some healing, maneuvers, Metal, couple of other nice things.).

Fighter and Warblade can accomplish this goal, but typically far less effectively.

I have an equipment trick I've had rattling around in my head for awhile now, but I'd need to know what level your starting at and with what funds and rules before I knew if it even had a chance of being viable.

[Ursus the Grim]

Do you have a character in mind? Or is this just theoretical? Because, I mean, an Ikea Tarrasque Crusader would be brutal.

[Madcrafter]

I decided to take a break from the blastificer in my current campaign, and decided to go full on bodyguard. Shield other is a very good spell for this if you don't mind going cleric. Combined with the ability to heal yourself (if you really need to) or cast delay death if stuff really starts going downhill, you can really extend your party's survivability, without having to step into the role of actually taking hits for them. If you DM rules that DR and Resistances apply to the damage transferred by the shield (a hotly debated topic), than combining the two can make your party essentially unkillable from damage.

If you really want to be on the front line stepping in front of swords and other such nasties, the pair of feats from DotU, Constant and Dutiful guardian, allow you to do that once a round with your immediate/swift action. If you don't mind only protecting one person, and you can get some unupdated 3.0 approved, the Sword and Fist's Devoted Defender is one of the best at their job for taking hits (and theoretically, getting a bit of damage in too).

[Talonblaze]

We're starting at level 5, but we're expecting to top it to 20. So I'd like to be prepared for that.

We're allowed creatures with +1 LA tops. Wanting something hardy, and that would compliment the two below.

So far the Crusader and Knight seem to be the most top choices classwise.
Will have to look up those notes on the abilities.

As for wealth, we're currently stuck with standard gear. More of a reason my defensive abilities needed to be top notch for survivability.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Just don't use an actual shield.

If you can use PF, there's this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat), combine it with Stand Still, a tripper build, a crusader, or a knight.

[Amphetryon]

Person_Man's Saint Bertold:

Whatever 3/Knight 4/Apostle of Peace 4/Full Caster Progression PrC X

Saint Bertold should only be played by a mature player, interested in a lot of roleplaying, with an all Good group interested in a challenge. Your Vows have all sorts of ridiculous pre-conditions, such as taking all helpless or incapacitated living enemies prisoner instead of killing them. So again, do not play this build unless everyone in your party is on board with it. That said, here’s how it works:

Whatever 3 can be anything with Concentration (prereq for Apostle of Peace) as a class Skill A mix of Paladin, Binder, Incarnate, and/or any Skill Monkey class might be a good idea.

Knight gives you Test of Mettle.

Apostle of Peace (Book of Exalted Deeds) offers ridiculously fast casting, giving you 9th level spells at ECL 16, albeit from good but somewhat limited list. It also gives you Turn Undead, a no Save Calm Emotions, and Censure Demons. Nothing but spells after 4 levels though, so head into any other PrC that offers full caster progression.

The catch is that you need to take Sacred Vow, Vow of Peace, Vow of Non-Violence, and Vow of Poverty.

Vow of Peace and Vow of Non-Violence boosts the Save DCs of all of your abilities and spells (including Test of Mettle), makes weapons break against you, and give you other abilities.

So your combos are rather strait forward. Use Test of Mettle, and enemies will hopelessly attack you, breaking their weapons against you. Your friends can incapacitate those who aren't effected, and then focus on the people who are one at a time. If an enemy isn’t effected by Test of Mettle, you can use Calm Emotions, Skills, or the many spells at your disposal.

It's a fun take on a character built to take it more than dishing it out.

[Qwertystop]

Stand Still + Robilar's Gambit + Defensive Sweep + Thicket of Blades (Devoted Spirit 3rd level stance) + Combat Reflexes + An inclusive-area reach weapon (whip-dagger, spiked chain, etc.). If they charge you, they have to stop. If they move in your threatened area, you get an AoO. If they attack you from your threatened area, you get an AoO. If they're in your threatened area and don't attack you, you get an AoO. Combine with Improved Trip and they can't do anything without being attacked, including "doing nothing". This will stop just about anyone from doing just about anything against near within 15 feet of you.

[Hiro Protagonest]

within 15 feet of you.

Does whip-dagger threaten?

[Ursus the Grim]

Does whip-dagger threaten?
No, actually. I just had a long talk about it here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214524).

[Optimator]

Wizard gishes fare extremely well with this sort of thing, especially at higher levels. Combining things like Greater Blink, Greater Mirror Image, Draconic Polymorph, and Abjurant-Champion-boosted Shield and Greater Luminous Armour will be better than any full plate + shield wearers. More AC and miss chances, and that doesn't even include offensive and movement buffs. Dispel-bait though.

[Feytalist]

And Crusader (Delayed Damage pool, some healing, maneuvers, Metal, couple of other nice things.).

This just made my day.


Just don't use an actual shield.

Alternatively, while not quite as good as a tripper build, if you use a shield you get a slight AC bonus with Knight, and you can add to that with Shield Specialisation (a sub-par feat, sure) and Shield Ward, which lets you add your total shield AC to your Touch AC and checks against bull rushing, grappling, etc. Not bad at all.

Knight4/CrusaderX is really the best tanky build you can play. Iron Guard's Glare is win, and the delayed damage pool along with Devoted Spirit's healing maneuvres will help you stay upright longer.

[Cieyrin]

Just don't use an actual shield.

And why shouldn't he? Crusaders have proficiency with ALL shields, including exotic ones, so an Extreme or Gauntlet shield could work well. Knight gives bonuses for shields, there are shield maneuvers in Devoted Spirit, Shield Ward/Parrying Shield give your shield bonus to much more than just your normal AC. If you decide to actually use the Knight's free Mounted Combat feat, a Rider's Shield can work to make your mount that much better protected when you aren't negating hits with Ride checks. Small or smaller mounted Knights tend to work well with kiting enemies via Test of Mettle, so making the game last longer is to your benefit.

Elusive Target is gold for a tank, as negating Power Attack makes you that much more resilient. Hold the Line + Stand Still can stop uber chargers in their tracks, especially with whatever those boots are in MIC that makes you auto-set your weapon against a charge, so grab a pike or other piercing reach weapon and get your double damage while preventing a charger from laying a finger on you.

[Greenish]

whatever those boots are in MICSteadfast Boots. If you're stacking them with Hold the Line, also consider Intercepting weapon property from Forge of War for another double damage attack against chargers. It's +1, but it has other triggers than just charging, and free attacks at double damage are pretty sweet.

[Getsugaru]

A bit of Incarnum could help you go a long way. For example, a Blink Shirt to get around quickly, Girallon Arms con enable you to hold 4 Shields (Protection from all sides if Tower Shields), Manticore Belt is always fun with flying and/or a long range attack if you can't cover the distance in time, Phase Cloak can enable you to be able to reach your allies even if Walls are in the way, a Shedu Crown will prevent those pesky bull rush attempts, the Threefold Mask of the Chimera prevents flanking, etc. (Yes, I know that practically all of the one's I listed were Totemist, but in my opinion, it's the best choice when it comes to this situation). And that's only the tip of the Iceberg, as they say. You will probably need to take the Double Chakra feat once or twice, but if you can somehow be of the Dragon type (not Draconic, DRAGON), you can access the Wyrm of War trait in the Dragons of Eberron book, giving you auto proficiency with up to Martial weapons, and a bonus feat every 4 levels. If you go Dragonwrought Kobold, you can take a feat in the Dragons of Eberron book that would grant you Alter Self 3/day at first, meaning you get Wyrm of War and Medium size. I say that's a win. :smallamused:

[Acanous]

Well, aside from the Dwarven Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Deepwarden/Bear Lord that ends up wielding 5 shields in combat while adding one to his actual AC along with double con, and being a freaking bear...

I've had some success with a Wizard/Master Specialist (Abjurer)/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil/Archmage.

[Psyren]

Psywars are really hard to kill also. Start by getting the Deception mantle to give yourself a 50% miss chance at will from level 1. Then get a pet rock and Share Pain/Vigor with it to effectively quarter all the damage you take. You can heal yourself, protect your allies, summon backup, and transform into a variety of creatures or even objects.

[Chess435]

Hate to break it to you guys, but the AC bonuses for using multiple shields don't stack because they give the same bonus type. Sorry.

[Zaq]

Incarnates, if they build for it, get some of the earliest reliable access to a lot of defenses and immunities (potentially DR 6/magic or 2/alignment at level 1, early SR that's actually useful, lots of immunities, good AC if that's your thing, boatloads of HP with the Vitality Belt and their natural inclination towards high CON, reasonable access to energy resistance . . .), but if you focus too heavily on being unkillable, you'll run out of resources to make yourself a threat, ending up with a Dwarven Defender. (That said, the essentia system does make shifting from defense to offense relatively easy once you have enough melds/binds . . . it just takes finesse to have your cliché and eat it too.)

[Greenish]

Girallon Arms con enable you to hold 4 Shields (Protection from all sides if Tower Shields)Four tower shields don't grant any more cover than just one.


if you can somehow be of the Dragon type (not Draconic, DRAGON), you can access the Wyrm of War trait in the Dragons of Eberron bookSovereign Archetypes are for true dragons, not just everyone with dragon type. For example, half-dragons, attack drakes etc. are out of luck.


If you go Dragonwrought Kobold, you can take a feat in the Dragons of Eberron book that would grant you Alter Self 3/day at first, meaning you get Wyrm of War and Medium size. I say that's a win. :smallamused:Not Alter Self, but alternate form, which sets your physical stats to 10, 10, 10 (for a human). And the feat requires sorc 5.

[Eldariel]

Crusader with EWP: Kusari-Gama [DMG]/Spinning Sword [Secrets of Sarlona] & Shield (Tower or otherwise) is your best bet. I'd skip the Knight-dip; Knight mostly has abilities that really want you to go Knight 20 and Defensive Bulwark is nothing compared to Thicket of Blades (which you can swap between Iron Guard's Glare as the situation calls). Then you just use Shield Block and Shield Counter alongside your AOOs and White Raven/Devoted Spirit stuff to block everything ever.

Though yeah, Knight 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Crusader 14 isn't terrible since it gets Thicket of Blades as the 2nd level stance (normally Crusader has to wait until level 8 to pick it up naturally which is a pain as you qualify for it level 5). But I'd just go Crusader 20 and spend the level 6 feat on Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades until you get level 8 and can pick it up naturally.


In short:
Go Crusader 20. It's simple, extremely good at what it does and precisely what you want; difficult as hell to kill, makes your allies difficult as hell to get to and kill, and has some offense and utility (mostly breaking things and whatever you do with your skillpoints).

Alternatively, you could dip some things (like Unarmed Swordsage 2/Fighter 2 or something) and enter Master of the Nine later for some fun with your Stances (it allows you to switch stances while using a counter so you can go from triggering AOO with Thicket of Blades to giving opponents penalties, or you can go temporarily immortal or even double stance it up to get multiple such abilities at once) and opening up the rest of the schools (Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind have some abilities of interest to you, and Setting Sun isn't entirely wasted). Entering Master of the Nine eats up feats like crazy but it synergizes incredibly well with Crusader and gives you some additional toys to play with.

You do lose out on the higher level Crusader goodies this way but the class doesn't give nearly as much as Swordsage or Warblade later on so you aren't losing that much.


Crusader 20 or Crusader ~11/X 2-4/Master of the Nine 5.

[Cieyrin]

Though yeah, Knight 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Crusader 14 isn't terrible since it gets Thicket of Blades as the 2nd level stance (normally Crusader has to wait until level 8 to pick it up naturally which is a pain as you qualify for it level 5). But I'd just go Crusader 20 and spend the level 6 feat on Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades until you get level 8 and can pick it up naturally.

You have an alignment conflict in there between Knight and Barbarian, as Knights must be Lawful and Barbarians can't be, unless you want to pick up Ordered Chaos, which is kinda feasible if you pick up another level of Knight for the Will requirement and go Barb at 7th.

[Getsugaru]

Girallon Arms con enable you to hold 4 Shields (Protection from all sides if Tower Shields)
Four tower shields don't grant any more cover than just one.
Remember, 1 Tower Shield can grant Total Concealment from 1 direction. Therefore, 4 Tower Shields can grant Total Concealment from 4 directions. And if they are Dancing Shields, then you can also have 4 defensive weapons/equipment in addition to 4 Tower Shields (Since it should be mentioned, depending on the trait, to wield 4, you might need to have more than 1 mind. To solve this, you could have a Psicrystal that has a Psicrystal that has a Psicrystal. Another option would be Symbionts, specifically 2 Psionic Sinew and a Cerebral Hood. These are both good combos, but aren't the only ones. They're the only ones I could think of at the moment.). I'd also suggest giving them the Reflect/Mirror quality eventually, which allows them to reflect non-area effect spells back at the caster. Picture it; a Full Plate Defender with 4 φ in his 4 hands(2 normal, 2 Girallon), with 4 Reflect/Mirror Tower Shields Dancing around him, possibly taking the appearance of 2-4 Shining Wings floating behind him.
:smalleek:...:smallamused:
Just thought of something. Be a Dragon/Draconic character and you can use the Claws of the Wyrm from Dragon Magic to gain an additional 2 arms, totaling at 6!:smallbiggrin:




if you can somehow be of the Dragon type (not Draconic, DRAGON), you can access the Wyrm of War trait in the Dragons of Eberron book
Sovereign Archetypes are for true dragons, not just everyone with dragon type. For example, half-dragons, attack drakes etc. are out of luck.
That's why I mentioned Dragonwrought Kobold. The feat give you the Dragon type, and because Kobolds have Age Categories, the feat technically makes you a True Dragon.
EDIT: Just found out that the Playground doesn't necessarily agree that Dragonwrought makes you a True Dragon...:smallannoyed:




If you go Dragonwrought Kobold, you can take a feat in the Dragons of Eberron book that would grant you Alter Self 3/day at first, meaning you get Wyrm of War and Medium size. I say that's a win.
Not Alter Self, but alternate form, which sets your physical stats to 10, 10, 10 (for a human). And the feat requires sorc 5.
__________________

Sorry, wrong name. And since it'd require sorc 5, I'd suggest...[searches through many books...called up some friends...]...I got nothing. You wouldn't be a humanoid if you are Dragonwrought, so Enlarge Person wouldn't work. So yeah...I got nothing...

Also, as you want to be a defender, I'd suggest 2 feats that I just found in the Miniatures Handbook. They are Shieldmate and Improved Shieldmate. Shield-mate grants adjacent allies a +1 if you are using a shield you are proficient with, +2 if a Tower Shield. Improved Shieldmate adds an additional +1 bonus, making it +2 for any shield and +3 if a Tower Shield. I'd say that is worthwhile.
Also in the Miniatures Handbook is a creature called a Phargion, which possesses something called Armblade Shields, which are pretty much a fusion of a short sword and a Buckler (I think...). If your DM is like mine, you should be able to convince him to allow you to have 2 as equipment. Their exact stats:
1 deals 1d6 slashing damage
when wielding a pair of Armblade Shields, gain a +1 bonus to AC as if using weapons and the Two-Weapon Defense, even if you don't have said feat.

If anything I've mentioned doesn't work, please let me know.

[Qwertystop]

Remember, 1 Tower Shield can grant Total Concealment from 1 direction. Therefore, 4 Tower Shields can grant Total Concealment from 4 directions.

Nope. A tower shield just gives total cover. Directions are irrelevant. It does not give concealment, unless I'm missing something.

Incidentally, if you have cover, so does your equipment. Your tower shield therefore gives itself cover, through giving you cover.

[Getsugaru]

Nope. A tower shield just gives total cover. Directions are irrelevant. It does not give concealment, unless I'm missing something.

Incidentally, if you have cover, so does your equipment. Your tower shield therefore gives itself cover, through giving you cover.

Sorry, Total Cover. And as for the "One Direction" thing, I'm probably thinking of Pathfinder rules. Sorry...

[Cieyrin]

You don't need to go dismembering phargions for their armblades, you can get the same thing with buckler-axes and tortoise blades.

[Getsugaru]

You don't need to go dismembering phargions for their armblades, you can get the same thing with buckler-axes and tortoise blades.

Oops...Forgot about those...