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Curious
2011-09-12, 09:28 PM
In many popular fantasy settings, elves are magical, powerful, and utterly beyond the ken of mortal men. While nice for a story, this obviously doesn't fit in with the other, more mundane races for the purposes of balance. So, following the lead of the Savage Species racial level progressions, I have created the following level progression for a more powerful elven race.


The Elf

{Fluff to be entered as required by campaign; in other words, do it yourselves. :smalltongue:}

Racial Traits


Starting Ability Score Adjustments: -2 Con, +2 to any one mental ability score of your choice.

Medium: Elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Speed: Elf land speed is 40.

Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects.

Keen Senses: Elves gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.

Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Celestial, Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d6.

Starting Wealth: 5d6 x 10 (average 170 gp)

Class Skills

The elves class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Survival (Wis).

Skill ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: Elf
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Powers Known/Spells per Day

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Ability Boost (Dex +2), Paths| +1 level of chosen class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Elven Magic| -

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Ability Boost (Con or Dex +2), Graceful Hunter| +1 level of chosen class
[/table]

Class Features

The following are the class features of the Elf.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Elf is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. An Elf is also proficient with light armor.

Ability Boost (Ex): As you gain levels in this racial class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: Elf. These increases are gained as if through level advancement.

Elven Magic (Su): At 2nd level, elves gain the ability to reduce the spell failure chance for arcane spells while wearing armor by 10%. Elves also gain the ability to cast Animal Trance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animal-trance), Feather Fall (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/feather-fall), and Negate Aroma (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/negate-aroma) at will as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to your character level. At 3rd level you may also cast Bloodhound (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bloodhound), Chameleon Stride (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/chameleon-stride), and Greensight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/greensight) as spell-like abilities 3/day.

Graceful Hunter(Ex): All Elves are innately agile and silent, and their ability to disappear behind even the flimsiest of cover is simply astounding. At 3rd level you gain the ability to hide in plain sight, as the Shadowdancer class ability.

Paths: Although many are the paths of the world, few are the roads taken. Elves, however, know which roads to take. At 1st level, you may choose one of the following paths.


Path of the Sword (Ex): Your levels in Elf now count as full initiator levels in one martial adept class of your choice, and you gain Martial Study as a bonus feat.

Path of the Stars (Su): At the indicated levels, an Elf gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

Path of the Heavens (Su): At the indicated levels, an Elf gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an divine spellcasting class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

Path of Clarity (Ps): At the indicated levels, your levels in Elf now progress power points, powers known, and manifesting level as if you had gained a level in one psionic class of your choice. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

Kenneth
2011-09-12, 09:33 PM
Uh.. so i get a total of +12 to my stats.. why would anybody NOT play an elf in your games?

also its very very overpowered

Curious
2011-09-12, 09:34 PM
Uh.. so i get a total of +12 to my stats.. why would anybody NOT play an elf in your games?

also its very very overpowered

Eh, thought it might be a little much. As you say, I may have to change that.

Then again, stats aren't everything.

Ziegander
2011-09-12, 09:55 PM
Uh.. so i get a total of +12 to my stats.. why would anybody NOT play an elf in your games?


Eh, thought it might be a little much. As you say, I may have to change that.

Then again, stats aren't everything.

@Curious: Did you mean that the amazing stat adjustments only apply to characters that take the three levels in the Elf sub-class you presented? If so, it could work, but you'd still want to stagger those awesome boosts throughout the levels.

Otherwise, it's pretty cool, but the concept could still use some tweaking, I'd say. I like the Paths quite a lot, but I think you could make the idea more interesting if you give players the choice between the standard Elf presented in the PHB or the super-Elf, but with the caveat that if the player chooses super-Elf they have to take all three levels of the Elf sub-class as their first three class levels. Then just make sure that those three levels are worth it.

Curious
2011-09-12, 09:58 PM
@Curious: Did you mean that the amazing stat adjustments only apply to characters that take the three levels in the Elf sub-class you presented? If so, it could work, but you'd still want to stagger those awesome boosts throughout the levels.

Otherwise, it's pretty cool, but the concept could still use some tweaking, I'd say. I like the Paths quite a lot, but I think you could make the idea more interesting if you give players the choice between the standard Elf presented in the PHB or the super-Elf, but with the caveat that if the player chooses super-Elf they have to take all three levels of the Elf sub-class as their first three class levels. Then just make sure that those three levels are worth it.

Hm, that sounds pretty good. I'll stagger the stat boosts through the levels and add in the caveat that you must take all three levels before you may multiclass into other classes.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-12, 10:30 PM
Incredibly overpowered. The base race isn't bad at all...then it gets crazy.

At level 1, I have a +8 total to stats (both really strong stats), a d8 HD, full BaB, and 2 good saves, as well as a good skill selection, I might add. In addition, I get three fairly (to very) useful 1st level spells at will and I cast better in armor. This is a VERY good level. Extremely good.

At second I get +2 Strength (effectively +1 to hit with melee and +1 to damage, on top of full BaB and the other +2 to ranged attacks that I got from the Dex bonus last level). I also get an ability that Rogues can get around 10th level...at level 2. Another really good ability set.

Then, at third, I gain a Con bonus (that's +12 to stats, folks!), some more useful spells 3/day each, and, to top it off, I get to basically go right into another class without losing anything but class features...and I've already gotten INCREDIBLY good class features. Note that this chassis is actually BETTER than the chassis of any Arcane or Divine class, meaning that I actually gain MORE from taking this class than I would from anything else. With the Martial classes it's a bit more of a wash, but this still comes out ahead of the early levels of most martial classes.

This race, as it ends up, is worthy of a +2 LA at LEAST. So if two of those levels didn't give HD, you might be good. As is though, it's just to strong by probably 100%.

Cieyrin
2011-09-13, 09:26 AM
My first time reading it, though it looks like it's been dialed back since yesterday. Still, as it currently is, it's either uber or initially underpowered and then uber. Having Path at the end heavily backloads the class, I'd spread it out or perhaps put it in level 2 and 3. The lack of Disguise as a class skill when Elven Magic provides Disguise Self is a bit odd as well.

As it currently is, it's like the perfect chassis for a Warblade but it hurts casters in that they have to sit around for 3 levels dealing with CL 1 casting till they hit Caster 1/Elf 3, when suddenly, bam, 2nd level spells, CL 4! See what I mean by underpowered? I suppose it could work out as a skill monkey in the early levels but it feels like you're gonna get carried by your fellows till you can finally contribute. If you balance stats out a bit, make the initial ability spread +2 any mental, -2 Con, gain +2 Dex at 1st, +2 Con or Dex at 3rd, so you have net +4 stats with customization.

My final thought is you may want to change the type from Humanoid(Elf) to Fey, as it feels very much so. Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Curious
2011-09-13, 02:03 PM
Alright, thank you both for your thorough analysis of these levels, it really helps.

So I definitely see that the class needs some work, so here are a list of changes I have made after reading through your comments:

-BAB reduced to medium.
-Hit Die reduced to d6.
-Ability modifiers heavily reduced.
-Paths moved to second level.

I have also added Elven Immunities back on to the base race, added Disguise to class skills (thanks for pointing that out, Ceiyrin), and added Path of Clarity so Psionics don't feel left out.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2011-09-13, 02:10 PM
The Paths are still the issue. It's not good design to go "Be weaker for X levels so you can be stronger from level Y on" without having a very good reason (some Prestige class requirements that are needed to make the class work, for example) and that's basically what you're doing here: once you've reached the Path abilities and take your first level of, for example, Wizard or Psion, this becomes outright better in pretty much every way than being a straight member of that class.

Curious
2011-09-13, 02:14 PM
Hm, so how would it be if I reduced the effective levels of progression from, 'all 3', to just 2? That way you would be getting delayed progression, even as a wizard, equal to a Sorceror.

EDIT: And perhaps move the Paths down to level 1 as well, to allow for less of the whole, 'start weak, end strong' effect I seem to have created.

Ziegander
2011-09-13, 02:18 PM
Hm, so how would it be if I reduced the effective levels of progression from, 'all 3', to just 2? That way you would be getting delayed progression, even as a wizard, equal to a Sorceror.

EDIT: And perhaps move the Paths down to level 1 as well, to allow for less of the whole, 'start weak, end strong' effect I seem to have created.

I would change it from granting "full progression" as a spellcaster to having the Elf levels stack with caster level. That way you still lose out on spells known, spell slots, and spell level availability, but theoretically you're offering enough power in the first three levels to offset that.

Curious
2011-09-13, 02:28 PM
I would change it from granting "full progression" as a spellcaster to having the Elf levels stack with caster level. That way you still lose out on spells known, spell slots, and spell level availability, but theoretically you're offering enough power in the first three levels to offset that.

That sounds. . . Pretty reasonable, actually. Maybe. My only qualm is that it really screws over anyone who wants to be a Sorceror.

Ziegander
2011-09-13, 02:33 PM
That sounds. . . Pretty reasonable, actually. Maybe. My only qualm is that it really screws over anyone who wants to be a Sorceror.

Well, it would probably be a good idea to re-evaluate what the Elf class grants in the three levels that are being required to take if you do take my suggestion for the Paths. That and an Elf Sorcerer feat or two would help immensely I'm sure.

Ashtagon
2011-09-13, 03:36 PM
What i don't get is this. Once a character in this class has achieved the Paths feature, what does the straight class (of the relevant path) have that this class doesn't? As written, it seems a no-brainer decision to take this class instead of the vanilla option.

Ilorin Lorati
2011-09-13, 05:26 PM
This class only grants 2 levels of spellcasting, from how I'm reading it.

Curious
2011-09-13, 06:53 PM
This class only grants 2 levels of spellcasting, from how I'm reading it.

Yeah, that's intentional. Even with a bunch of nerfs it seems too powerful for full spellcasting progression. :smallfrown: