Reduce spell level by 1

[MeeposFire]

Is there a way to legally reduce a spells level by one or more spots? I would wish to avoid prcs if possible. Note arcane thesis won't work due to errata.

[faceroll]

Is there a way to legally reduce a spells level by one or more spots? I would wish to avoid prcs if possible. Note arcane thesis won't work due to errata.

Sanctum Spell makes a higher level spell cast outside of your sanctum act as one level lower, but it doesn't actually occupy a lower level slot. Versatile Spellcaster turns two lower level spells into one higher.

There's a feat from a DR that, once per day, allows you to break down up to 3 levels of spells. So a 3rd level spell could be turned into 3 1st level ones.

Finally, there is the 7th level ability of the Mind Mage (http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm), a quasi-difficult to qualify prestige class from DR 313.

[faceroll]

Easy Metamagic anyone?

Edit: Applied to a Metamagic that already has an adjustment of +0.

Doesn't work.

[Keld Denar]

To what end? If you wish to memorize Fireball in a 2nd level slot, I don't think any such method exists. If you want Orb of Fire (4th) to fit in your Spellstoring Weapon (3rd level cap), however, there is a way. Sanctum Spell, as mentioned above, makes the spell for ALL intents and purposes 1 level lower when outside of your sanctum. That means that while a Sanctum Orb of Fire is cast from a 4th level slot, when it hits the Spellstoring Weapon, its now a 3rd level spell and just barely fits in.

[navar100]

To have a spell take a lower level slot breaks the game. Here's a hypothetical feat to show why.

Minimize Spell

Benefit: Choose a spell that uses dice for a random effect. That spell is considered as if you rolled the lowest amount possible. A Minimized Spell deals the least amount of damage, heals the least amount of hit points, etc. A Minimize Spell uses a spell slot one level lower than the spell's actual level.

5th level cleric casts Minimize Cure Light Wounds. He uses a 0 level slot to heal 6 hit points. That is very much better than Cure Minor Wounds. 9th level wizard casts Minimize Magic Missile. For a 0 level spell slot, he deals 10 damage total, autohitting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

To what end? If you wish to memorize Fireball in a 2nd level slot, I don't think any such method exists. If you want Orb of Fire (4th) to fit in your Spellstoring Weapon (3rd level cap), however, there is a way. Sanctum Spell, as mentioned above, makes the spell for ALL intents and purposes 1 level lower when outside of your sanctum. That means that while a Sanctum Orb of Fire is cast from a 4th level slot, when it hits the Spellstoring Weapon, its now a 3rd level spell and just barely fits in.

This also works for (Lesser) Metamagic Rods.

Also note that you can combine Sanctum Spell and Versatile Spellcaster to spend two spell slots of two levels lower than the spell's normal level to cast a Sanctum version of it.

[MeeposFire]

To what end? If you wish to memorize Fireball in a 2nd level slot, I don't think any such method exists. If you want Orb of Fire (4th) to fit in your Spellstoring Weapon (3rd level cap), however, there is a way. Sanctum Spell, as mentioned above, makes the spell for ALL intents and purposes 1 level lower when outside of your sanctum. That means that while a Sanctum Orb of Fire is cast from a 4th level slot, when it hits the Spellstoring Weapon, its now a 3rd level spell and just barely fits in.

Sadly that is what I want to do. I want to make a lesser orb spell a level 0 spell. Oh well.

[NNescio]

Well, there's the Gnome Illusionist and Level 0 Silent Images...

(IIRC there are other racial/class features that let you treat a specific spell as being one level lower, 'though I can't quite think of another one.)

[MeeposFire]

Alright change in subject I guess.

what I am trying to do is make a magus that uses a spell with spell strike every round. I was trying to get to level 0 so that I could use a spell like acid orb to deal decent damage on a standard action without worrying about running out of spells. Since reserve feats won't work with this I am not sure what I can use that fits what I want.

Is there a way to get a 0 level spell that can deal enough damage to be worth a darn?

As an idea I would like something similar to ToB strike damage so it does not need to be huge but I would like it large enough so that my standard actions aren't jokes when I am not using a higher level spells.

[Diarmuid]

Even if you're using 0th level spell slots, you're still going to run out of those eventually too. Heck, as fast as 3rd level a Sorc can have more 1st level spells per day than 0's.

Additionally, Spell Strike seems to only work with Touch spells. Spells that require Ranged Touch like the orb spells will not work with Spell Strike. Note the orb spells' Range category is not :"Touch".

[Urpriest]

Anyway, Pathfinder handles cantrips differently, so anything that did make a higher level spell into a cantrip in a 3.5 source would have to be modified for Pathfinder so it ceased to do that.

[dextercorvia]

Some PF cantrips that you might find useful (they are listed as 3rd party, but available on the PFSRD site):

Touch of Lethargy, Touch of Torment, and Touch of Fatigue. Lethargy is especially nice, as Staggered is a pretty good condition.

[Analytica]

Some Pathfinder organizations provide the benefit of learning some spells as lower-level versions. With restrictions, though, so may be problematic. Whispering Way adherents can get lower-level necromancies, for instance. I think this was in the Faction Guide.

[Tyndmyr]

Certain classes will have spells at lower levels than is normal. Typically, partial progression casters. Find some way to use spells off another classes list(artificer, archivist, etc), and abuse as normal.

Domain Wizard is a specialized but occasionally handy way to get spells on your list.

[MeeposFire]

Even if you're using 0th level spell slots, you're still going to run out of those eventually too. Heck, as fast as 3rd level a Sorc can have more 1st level spells per day than 0's.

Additionally, Spell Strike seems to only work with Touch spells. Spells that require Ranged Touch like the orb spells will not work with Spell Strike. Note the orb spells' Range category is not :"Touch".

0 levels spells refresh so they are at will.

There is a magus arcana that lets you use ranged touch spells with spell strike.

I was trying to do damage and not status effects especially with my "at will" option. Saving throws with level 0 spells are just too low. Though I do agree those seem to be the best options.

Maybe I will just have to play something else.

[dextercorvia]

I was trying to do damage and not status effects especially with my "at will" option. Saving throws with level 0 spells are just too low.

I agree, but even a small chance at a status ailment is better than +1d3 damage.

[MeeposFire]

I agree, but even a small chance at a status ailment is better than +1d3 damage.

Oh I agree with you I am just saying that 1d3 damage and low DC negates spells do not excite me. That is why I was trying to make lesser orbs into 0 level spells since I could then have multiple d6 damage spells that could be intensified so that it scales nicely through level 20.

I think I will ask my DM for a magus arcana to allow the use of supernatural abilities so I can use a reserve feat with spell strike. It won't scale as nicely but it will at least be decent.

[Curious]

I only know of one way to reduce a spells slot, and it involves entirely Pathfinder stuff.

-Pick the Magical Lineage trait for whatever spell you wish to reduce.
-Pick the Spell Perfection feat for that same spell.
-Apply the biggest, fanciest metamagic you can to it; anything is reduced by Spell Perfection to +0.

Magical Lineage straight drops the level of a metamagicked spell by 1, so with the +0 change from Spell Perfection and say, Quicken, you end up a spell slot lower.

[Tyndmyr]

0 levels spells refresh so they are at will.

There is a magus arcana that lets you use ranged touch spells with spell strike.

I was trying to do damage and not status effects especially with my "at will" option. Saving throws with level 0 spells are just too low. Though I do agree those seem to be the best options.

Maybe I will just have to play something else.

Oh...so, check out reserve feats. They sound like what you want.

[Curious]

Is there a way to get a 0 level spell that can deal enough damage to be worth a darn?



Yup. Use the thing I posted above, only it would be Intensified Shocking Grasp.

[MeeposFire]

I only know of one way to reduce a spells slot, and it involves entirely Pathfinder stuff.

-Pick the Magical Lineage trait for whatever spell you wish to reduce.
-Pick the Spell Perfection feat for that same spell.
-Apply the biggest, fanciest metamagic you can to it; anything is reduced by Spell Perfection to +0.

Magical Lineage straight drops the level of a metamagicked spell by 1, so with the +0 change from Spell Perfection and say, Quicken, you end up a spell slot lower.

you know I think that might be what I remembered for before and that would be about perfect. That would give me a nice at will damage option that is not over powerd. Thank you.

Tyndmyr- I will though I prefer using things that do not require homebrew assuming it can be done legally already. Besides an intensified shocking grasp will be better in many cases than a reserve feat so I will go for that.

[MeeposFire]

Oh as a curiosity is there a way to do int to hit or damage as feats (in 3.5 or PF).

[Curious]

Oh as a curiosity is there a way to do int to hit or damage as feats (in 3.5 or PF).

Mm, not that I can think of off the top of my head. You can get Int to hit with 3 levels of Magus (Arcane Accuracy Arcana), or grant Int to hit for allies as a Tactician Fighter, but I don't think you can get Int to your own to hit as just a feat.

[MeeposFire]

Mm, not that I can think of off the top of my head. You can get Int to hit with 3 levels of Magus (Arcane Accuracy Arcana), or grant Int to hit for allies as a Tactician Fighter, but I don't think you can get Int to your own to hit as just a feat.

Oh well arcane strike and knowledge devotion will probably be enough.