[PF] Is Vital Strike worth it?

[Frosty]

Assuming that my DM has ruled that the Vital Strike line of feats works with Charging, Spring Attack, Attacks of Opportunities, and will likely let it work for most situations where one makes only a single melee attack, are those feats now worthwhile to take for melee characters?

I mean, if I'm wielding a medium-sized Lance and I get Enlarged, that's 3d6 base weapon dice, and with Greater Vital Strike I could be doing 12d6 + Str mod + other bonuses on an AoO. While mounted (I'm now medium sized again), if I have the Spirited Charge feat and I charge, I'd be looking at 12d8 + 3*Str Mod + 3*Power Attack bonus + misc

[Big Fau]

It's a feat that only works when you crit, right? Not worth it. You'd be insanely lucky to see it even once per encounter, much less multiple times per encounter. Feats are incredibly valuable, and should be controllable by the player, not sheer chance.


I'd never personally spend that kind of investment on something I can't guarantee would work.

[tyckspoon]

It's a feat that only works when you crit, right? Not worth it. You'd be insanely lucky to see it even once per encounter, much less multiple times per encounter. Feats are incredibly valuable, and should be controllable by the player, not sheer chance.


No, Vital Strike is the line that lets you multiply your base damage dice as a special Standard Action attack. It's normally pretty useless because of that- you can't, usually, Charge with it, or Spring Attack, or opportunity attack, or Full Attack.. and because it only affects damage dice, it's generally very weak.

@poster: In your situation, I'd say yeah, go for it. Especially using it on attacks of opportunity could be very productive, although maximizing that requires a different weapon +feat focus from maximizing charge damage output.

[Frosty]

It won't work with full-attacks, since that is not a single strike. I'm a Cavalier, so I'm already getting decent bang for my buck on charging. I figured that Vital Strike can only add to that bang, and gives me something nice for when I can't take my Large-sized mount (a horse) into a dungeon.

tyckspoon: what would you use to try to get the most out of your AoOs? I'm sticking with a lance becuase my character's primary strength is charging people, but what feats + weapon might you suggest? I already have Combat Reflexes and the Bodyguard feat, and I also have a Spiked Gauntlet so I can threaten adjacent as well as far (with my lance). I don't care if enemies try to move away from me (no Stand Still for me) since I can just Charge them the next turn.

Big Fau: Here's Vital Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vital-strike-combat---final). The Improved version gives 3x dice. The Greater version gives 4x dice.

[Ashiel]

Assuming that my DM has ruled that the Vital Strike line of feats works with Charging, Spring Attack, Attacks of Opportunities, and will likely let it work for most situations where one makes only a single melee attack, are those feats now worthwhile to take for melee characters?

I mean, if I'm wielding a medium-sized Lance and I get Enlarged, that's 3d6 base weapon dice, and with Greater Vital Strike I could be doing 12d6 + Str mod + other bonuses on an AoO. While mounted (I'm now medium sized again), if I have the Spirited Charge feat and I charge, I'd be looking at 12d8 + 3*Str Mod + 3*Power Attack bonus + misc

It's totally worth it if you're a monster. Flyby attack is cute with it (and actually works RAW, so a huge dragon with flyby attack, the vital strike line, and snatch can be pretty nasty).

Also, monsters with big singular attacks like the T-Rex pretty much scream out for Vital Strike. 4d6 becomes 8d6 becomes 12d6 becomes 16d6? No loss in accuracy, just an average of +14 damage per feat? Sure, that sounds spiffy. :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

What happens if you give a Hydra Vital Strike?

[Human Paragon 3]

I was actually doing a little math on this, except it was Heavy Crossbow with vital strike or Light Crossbow with Rapid Shot.

I am not the best math whiz, but at low levels, vital strike came out ahead on average, but as the crossbows accrued bonus damage, rapid shot slowly started to come out ahead. Vital Strike remains better for creatures with damage reduction.

But all of this is very low-op, since crossbows are a poor choice in core.

I eventually decided to take both feats and switch depending on the situation.

[Person_Man]

I might be worth it if your base weapon damage is very high, playing as a King of Smack or just stacking size bonuses in general. Otherwise, it seems like the bonus damage would be negligible. Also, from a tactical point of view, a melee character should be making a Full Attack action pretty much EVERY ROUND. If you're Charging, you need Pounce, not Vital Strike.

[Blisstake]

Well, if you're using a greatsword, Vital Strike adds an average of 7 damage whenever you use a single attack. Compare that to something like weapon specialization which adds w damage, but always is in effect. It can add more damage if you manage to get larger somehow.

I mean, Vital Strike isn't as horrible as people make it out to be, but it really is just a luxury feat.

Edit:
I might be worth it if your base weapon damage is very high, playing as a King of Smack or just stacking size bonuses in general. Otherwise, it seems like the bonus damage would be negligible. Also, from a tactical point of view, a melee character should be making a Full Attack action pretty much EVERY ROUND. If you're Charging, you need Pounce, not Vital Strike.

Pounce isn't as easy to get in PF as it was in 3.5 where you could just multi-class into some barbarian variant. The only way to get it now is either wildshaping (bad multiclass combo), polymorphing (same), or multiclassing into synthesist (which has so many issues right now. It still technically will reduce your BAB to 1, and has a variety of unaddressed questions)

[9mm]

Vital strike is useful in engagements in which charging or 5ft steps is not an option to reach the next thing to drop. If your having no problem constantly charging, you don't need it; if every other fight is in difficult terrain it might be useful.

[ericgrau]

Everyone makes ordinary single attacks whether they like it or not. So you gotta figure how much damage you get on average. You might use it once every 2-1/2 rounds, so basically that times your damage dice is how much damage you get per round (minus maybe 25% misses at full BAB). It's also good for getting around DR since you pile it all into one hit. There are better options but once you get to your 8th feat every little bit of stackable damage you can find helps.

Making it work with attack of opportunities is pretty nuts, with charges as icing. I'd get combat reflexes and some kind of reach just for that. Ya, I'd make the feat my first or second feat for a boost like that. Early on you only have 2 attacks anyway so getting your weapon dice as extra damage maybe every 1-2 rounds one way or another is a big boost. Later you get improved and greater vital strike so that it keeps up with the additional attacks.

[Starbuck_II]

Pounce isn't as easy to get in PF as it was in 3.5 where you could just multi-class into some barbarian variant. The only way to get it now is either wildshaping (bad multiclass combo), polymorphing (same), or multiclassing into synthesist (which has so many issues right now. It still technically will reduce your BAB to 1, and has a variety of unaddressed questions)

Actually, it is. Barbarians get it at 10th lv. It is called Pounce (a rage power).

Not a dip though.

[Blisstake]

I don't consider taking 10 levels in barbarian as an easy way to acquire pounce.

Edit: And it's called Greater Beast Totem

[Frosty]

I might be worth it if your base weapon damage is very high, playing as a King of Smack or just stacking size bonuses in general. Otherwise, it seems like the bonus damage would be negligible. Also, from a tactical point of view, a melee character should be making a Full Attack action pretty much EVERY ROUND. If you're Charging, you need Pounce, not Vital Strike.Pounce would be nice, but I just don't have access to it. Our group is semi-low OP (got some experienced players, but only the inexperienced guy is playing a caster), so no polymorph shenanigans, and my character is going to stay in Cavalier for many reasons, including roleplay. At least in this case, Vital Strike's bonus will be multiplied by multipliers such as Spirited Charge and Critical Hits.

What happens if you give a Hydra Vital Strike?If I were the DM, I wouldn't let a Hydra take advantage of the feat.

Vital strike is useful in engagements in which charging or 5ft steps is not an option to reach the next thing to drop. If your having no problem constantly charging, you don't need it; if every other fight is in difficult terrain it might be useful.I've taken many feats to help ensure that I can charge in many situations, but I know that there will be an extended dungeon lasting an entire level at the least where I won't have access to my mount.

[Prime32]

Wouldn't the hydra just get to make a single bite that deals double damage? :smallconfused:

Vital Strike is decent when you can first get it, but you really shouldn't need to keep taking feats just so it can keep up with a full attack.

These feats should also be noted:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/devastating-strike-combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/devastating-strike-combat)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-devastating-strike-combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-devastating-strike-combat)

[Than]

You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.


Charging is a special full round action.

[Zeuy]

Charging is a special full round action.

He said his DM houseruled it.

[subject42]

To echo person man, vital strike can work moderately well if you have a high base weapon damage, relatively low strength, and no sources of bonus damage (eg: Sneak Attack, favored enemy, etc).

The most effective use of it I've seen so far was with an enlarged Titan Mauler barbarian wielding an oversized earthbreaker hammer. To be fair, the character was kind of a joke character (we fought barrel-hurling gorillas), but in Low-Op settings, it could work.

[Frosty]

Wouldn't the hydra just get to make a single bite that deals double damage? :smallconfused:

Vital Strike is decent when you can first get it, but you really shouldn't need to keep taking feats just so it can keep up with a full attack.

These feats should also be noted:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/devastating-strike-combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/devastating-strike-combat)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-devastating-strike-combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-devastating-strike-combat)
Devastating strike would be awesome if the bonus isn't capped to +6 :smallmad:

[KnightDisciple]

Vital Strike is actually an excellent archer feat. Need to take a move action to re-position yourself? No problem, just Vital Strike. My Archer fighter probably does about 70% Full Attack and 30% Vital Strike (sometimes for DR or a really high AC opponent who I could only reliably hit with the 1st attack).

[Frosty]

Vital Strike is actually an excellent archer feat. Need to take a move action to re-position yourself? No problem, just Vital Strike. My Archer fighter probably does about 70% Full Attack and 30% Vital Strike (sometimes for DR or a really high AC opponent who I could only reliably hit with the 1st attack).
And for readying an action to shoot a caster to force the caster to make a concentration check or lose the spell.

[Jeraa]

Wouldn't the hydra just get to make a single bite that deals double damage? :smallconfused:

With the changes Pathfinder made to the hydra, yeah. It only gets a single attack as a standard action. In 3.5, hydras were special, and could get all of their attacks as a standard action.

[Blisstake]

Vital Strike is actually an excellent archer feat. Need to take a move action to re-position yourself? No problem, just Vital Strike. My Archer fighter probably does about 70% Full Attack and 30% Vital Strike (sometimes for DR or a really high AC opponent who I could only reliably hit with the 1st attack).

Huh? The whole point of archery is that you hardly ever have to worry about not getting a full attack. Even then, the damage dice on bows is pretty low, so you're not even adding that much damage overall to the attack.

And if you're worried about DR on a full attack, take Staggering Shots from Ultimate Combat.

[KnightDisciple]

Huh? The whole point of archery is that you hardly ever have to worry about not getting a full attack. Even then, the damage dice on bows is pretty low, so you're not even adding that much damage overall to the attack.

And if you're worried about DR on a full attack, take Staggering Shots from Ultimate Combat.Nonetheless, when you're getting a crapload of feats as a Fighter, 1-2 for Vital Strike's not crippling. And I have had occasion to use it; when fighting inside and having to turn corners, or in a crowded alleyway where opponents move around, I've needed to move myself. Hence, you know, the ratio I gave. And he's got something like +11 damage on his attacks due to feats, strength, etc, so it's not like he can't at least somewhat bypass DR when he uses it. Deadly Aim is wonderful there as well.

[Gnaeus]

Is vital strike worth what exactly? If you don't get vital strike, what would you be taking instead?

[The Glyphstone]

With the changes Pathfinder made to the hydra, yeah. It only gets a single attack as a standard action. In 3.5, hydras were special, and could get all of their attacks as a standard action.

Yeah, after I posted that, I looked at the PF Hydra and saw they removed the 'attacks as a standard action' ability.

[Cieyrin]

Huh? The whole point of archery is that you hardly ever have to worry about not getting a full attack. Even then, the damage dice on bows is pretty low, so you're not even adding that much damage overall to the attack.

And if you're worried about DR on a full attack, take Staggering Shots from Ultimate Combat.

I assume y'mean Clustered Shots. But anyways, since Manyshot is just a Rapid Shot enhancer now, Vital Strike is handy for staying relevant when you can't full attack or pounce. Being mobile is important if your DM doesn't have every fight on a featureless plain and Vital Strike is meant to be for those times. Did they succeed? Not really but I'll take my bones where I can get 'em.

[Blisstake]

Nonetheless, when you're getting a crapload of feats as a Fighter, 1-2 for Vital Strike's not crippling. And I have had occasion to use it; when fighting inside and having to turn corners, or in a crowded alleyway where opponents move around, I've needed to move myself. Hence, you know, the ratio I gave. And he's got something like +11 damage on his attacks due to feats, strength, etc, so it's not like he can't at least somewhat bypass DR when he uses it. Deadly Aim is wonderful there as well.

Unless your damage output is extremely miniscule, you're probably getting more out of a full attack than from a vital strike single attack. Even then, Clustered Shots (which I meant when I said Staggering - sorry) is the superior choice for overcoming DR. A fighter gets a total of 21 or 22 feats at the highest level. Here are archery-related feats I would want to have first:

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus (longbow)
Weapon Specialization (longbow)
Snap Shot
Improved Snap Shot
Combat Reflexes (only if you have the previous two)
Many Shot
Greater Weapon Focus (longbow)
Greater Weapon Specialization (longbow)
Improved Critical (longbow)
Clustered Shots
Greater Snap Shot
Hammer the Gap
Point Blank Master
Improved Precise Shot

Non archery-related feats I'd rather have:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Iron Will

And then even after all those, there would be other feats competing with the Vital Strike line for an archer character.

[Human Paragon 3]

Point: The heavy crossbow deals d10 damage and takes a move action to reload. Especially at low levels, Vital Strike is a nice choice here, with 5.5 points of bonus damage on average per shot.

And, as above posters say, you sometimes must take a move action in combat. There's just no way around it.

Again, this is low-op stuff, but with pathfinder power attack and deadly aim, such a method is competitive with a power attacking charging fighter.

[Frosty]

Is vital strike worth what exactly? If you don't get vital strike, what would you be taking instead?
I will actually have like 2 or 3 feats open after I've taken all the charging stuff I want, so I was just asking if Vital Strike might be a good feat to have for those times when I can't charge on a mount (so bye bye multipliers), given that my DM allows it to work for AoOs and at the end of a charge (mounted or not).

I mean, I suppose I can always take stuff like Iron Will instead cuz my 8 Wisdom and Bad Will Progression makes my Cavalier cry against Charm Person and such.

[Blisstake]

Point: The heavy crossbow deals d10 damage and takes a move action to reload. Especially at low levels, Vital Strike is a nice choice here, with 5.5 points of bonus damage on average per shot.

And, as above posters say, you sometimes must take a move action in combat. There's just no way around it.

Again, this is low-op stuff, but with pathfinder power attack and deadly aim, such a method is competitive with a power attacking charging fighter.

Except you can't take it at a low level because it has a BAB required of 6. To my knowledge, a fighter using a crossbow is pretty suboptimal anyway.

And yes, I realize that you can't always full attack, but you should be able to more often than not when you're an archer. You don't want to specialize yourself for situtations that don't come up very often, and there are far more valuable feats for archery.

Using melee weapons on the other hand don't seem to require as many feats to use efficiently, and more often find themselves in situations where they can't full attack. If your GM is including Vital Strike with charge, then it really isn't that bad of a choice depending on what your weapon damage is.

[Ashiel]

What happens if you give a Hydra Vital Strike?

Sadly, not much. Vital strike requires you to make a single attack, and is actually more limited than the OP's GM is allowing for. In short, vital strike is only usable when you spend a Standard Action to use it, for 1 attack. Thus it's really only useful for creatures who have a single attack, and even then it's only really useful if that single attack has a lot of base damage dice (such as the T-Rex's 4d6 bite).

Far, far nastier to slap the Snatch feat on a Hydra. Now it has improved grab and a +4 bonus to grapple, and gets a free-action non-provoking grapple attempt every time it bites. With a 10 ft reach and 5 heads, it can be a nightmare. Slap on Cryo or Pyro for extra fun, as Snatch prevents reflex saves vs a creature's breath weapon if they grapple you, so suddenly you get attacked by like 5 heads on round 1, it attempts to grapple 5 times, if it grapples you, on round 2 you're taking 15d6 fire or cold damage, no save.

[Blisstake]

Glyphstone was operating under the 3.5 rules where a hydra could make all of its attacks as a standard action.

[herrhauptmann]

Would vital strike be useful for a gun shooter?
We've got a gunman in the party, who gets his 2 attacks, then has to spend a round reloading (couldn't afford an extra gun or five)
He's currently not happy with his character, and I wonder if this would make him slightly more effective at dealing damage.

Poor guy also took Mounted Combat, while we're in an city supplied by ferries, that won't take across a horse.

[Frosty]

Would vital strike be useful for a gun shooter?
We've got a gunman in the party, who gets his 2 attacks, then has to spend a round reloading (couldn't afford an extra gun or five)
He's currently not happy with his character, and I wonder if this would make him slightly more effective at dealing damage.

Poor guy also took Mounted Combat, while we're in an city supplied by ferries, that won't take across a horse.
Why isn't he reloading as a Move action or a Free action already? What level is he?

[herrhauptmann]

We're level 5, I don't know the exact breakdown of his character build. True he'd have to wait until at least next level (gun5/ftr1) to take it, and I doubt he'd multiclass.
Anyway, just looking for options to help someone else out. Even if my character hates his.

edit:
He might be using up every third turn taking two move actions to reload, I dunno. After Bab 6, it could easily end up being every second turn to reload until he's able to reload as a free action.

[Frosty]

What gun is he using? If he's using a Pistol, then he needs Rapid Reload and Paper Alchemical Cartridges to reload as free actions. If he's using a musket, he should be a Musketeer so he can reload them as quickly as Pistols (and he gets Rapid Reload for free).

[herrhauptmann]

What gun is he using? If he's using a Pistol, then he needs Rapid Reload and Paper Alchemical Cartridges to reload as free actions. If he's using a musket, he should be a Musketeer so he can reload them as quickly as Pistols (and he gets Rapid Reload for free).

Definitely pistols.
So, would Vital Strike be useful for his character? Or more a 'meh, take it or leave it' feat?

[Prime32]

What gun is he using? If he's using a Pistol, then he needs Rapid Reload and Paper Alchemical Cartridges to reload as free actions.I'm not seeing that on the SRD. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/paper-cartridge)

[Frosty]

Definitely pistols.
So, would Vital Strike be useful for his character? Or more a 'meh, take it or leave it' feat?It's really a 'meh' feat for the gunslinger because gunslingers want to shoot as much as possible, and the Pistolero gets bonus damage with each shot. The Musketeer tends to do big damage via Dead Shot, which is a full-round action and incompatible with Vital Shot under RAW.

Prime32: One handed guns reload as a Move action if you have the Rapid Reloat feat. All Alchemical Cartridges reduce reload times by one step (down to Free Action from Move Action). The downside is a higher misfire rate. Look in Ultimate Combat.

[Blisstake]

There is, however, a gun in there that has 2d12 damage. It may be interesting (if impractical) to utilize Vital Strike with that...

[Frosty]

There is, however, a gun in there that has 2d12 damage. It may be interesting (if impractical) to utilize Vital Strike with that...Is that one of the mini seige-engines?

[nyarlathotep]

Or you could just use it with an actual siege engine like a ballista.

[Prime32]

Prime32: One handed guns reload as a Move action if you have the Rapid Reloat feat. All Alchemical Cartridges reduce reload times by one step (down to Free Action from Move Action). The downside is a higher misfire rate. Look in Ultimate Combat.Ah, found it. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/alchemical-cartridges) The categories are inconsistent.

Now the question is whether you can load siege engines with cartridges. If yes, a half-giant Musket Master can full attack with a cannon.

[Blisstake]

Or you could just use it with an actual siege engine like a ballista.

Those take full round actions to fire though, don't they? I think Vital Strike says it has to be a standard action. Then again, the weapon I'm thinking of might have that requirement as well... (don't have my copy of Ultimate Combat on hand)

[herrhauptmann]

Alright, thanks guys.

I'll suggest it to him as an option. Unless someone else has a better suggestion on how to help his character be effective. And no, I don't tell him how to make his character by saying things like "You need to take X." People are less likely to get offended if I phrase it as a question: "Have you seen feat X?" It's worked 3 times so far with the group.

[Frosty]

Alright, thanks guys.

I'll suggest it to him as an option. Unless someone else has a better suggestion on how to help his character be effective. And no, I don't tell him how to make his character by saying things like "You need to take X." People are less likely to get offended if I phrase it as a question: "Have you seen feat X?" It's worked 3 times so far with the group.

There's a mostly-complete Gunslinger guide in this very sub-forum. Tell the player to read it.

[Cieyrin]

Now the question is whether you can load siege engines with cartridges. If yes, a half-giant Musket Master can full attack with a cannon.

I'm thinking probably not, as cartridges assume bullets and pellets, neither of which is a cannon ball. Plus, it takes 10 doses of gun powder to fire a cannon once. As I mentioned in the guide I'm still in the slow process of writing, using cannons and bombards with large creatures as two-handed firearms is far from clear cut, as do you still have to deal with aiming, loading and crew requirements of siege weaponry? How much do these bastards actually weigh? Even if many groups don't deal with encumbrance, lugging around a cannon, ammo and barrels of gun powder is pushing a bit beyond reasonable, not without bags of holding, etc.

As you also pointed out, Lightning Reload is probably the best way to sidestep the entire process as a swift action reload, since I don't think cannons are a target for the revised Rapid Reload, either. I think you can get away with crew, as the standard rule of crew being in Medium creatures and Large creatures being treated as multiple Mediums helps us there. There's just the matter of Aiming, then, since cannons technically require a full round action to do so. This is where Master Siege Engineer comes in, since it cuts it down to a move action. So, basically, a Half-Giant Gunslinger 11 with a cannon and Master Siege Engineer at 11th aims as a move, shoots as a standard, reloads as a swift, ready to go next action. I suppose Vital Strike chain would be useful in this instance, due to the move action aiming prevents you from using a full round for Dead Shot.

As for the aforementioned guide, check the sig. The new one, as mentioned, is a work in progress, though there's plenty of good advice floating around in the comments. The Playtest guide is mostly applicable still in the mean time.

[navar100]

As much as a warrior would like to make full attacks, sometimes he has to move more than a 5ft step. Sometimes such movement is not in a straight line or there's difficult terrain or some other reason a charge is not possible. When the warrior can only make one attack anyway, regardless of how awesome he is at multiple attacks and wished to high heaven he could make multiple attacks in a particular round of combat, it's nice that with Vital Strike he can add some extra damage anyway over his normal attack. Even though for that particular round of combat he's not at his best dreadnought smackdown of awesome fighting power, he can still pack a punch.

[MeeposFire]

As much as a warrior would like to make full attacks, sometimes he has to move more than a 5ft step. Sometimes such movement is not in a straight line or there's difficult terrain or some other reason a charge is not possible. When the warrior can only make one attack anyway, regardless of how awesome he is at multiple attacks and wished to high heaven he could make multiple attacks in a particular round of combat, it's nice that with Vital Strike he can add some extra damage anyway over his normal attack. Even though for that particular round of combat he's not at his best dreadnought smackdown of awesome fighting power, he can still pack a punch.

You are making it sound like you are getting a large bonus when in fact in most cases you are not. Let u say the warrior is using the classic longsword. Vital strike feats would add 4.5 damage per feat to a situation you are trying to avoid. You could make a case it would be better to go for feats similar to weapon specialization since the bonus is so small and isn't usable in all situations. Your feats are better used to try to increase your chances of getting a full attack in this case. The only time vital strike becomes worth it is if you have large damage dice and you can not increase your chances of getting full attacks every round. Vital strike would be weak but serviceable if it was one feat to get all the vital strike feats as one scaling feat. As 3 feats it is weak for most builds.

[Cieyrin]

That's really the key factor, that it suffers from being a chain instead of a single feat, like how TWF suffers. If it was like Dead Shot, it probably would be far more functional and valued, since it actually scales.

[Tvtyrant]

Where is vital strike from? Because I think a polymorpher could get some use from it.

[Than]

Where is vital strike from? Because I think a polymorpher could get some use from it.

Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

[NamelessNPC]

Vital strike is great if you are combining it with (Greater) Psionic weapon, a half giant, an oversized two-handed weapon, Psionic Meditation and Hustle.

If you are not, then I'm sure there are a lot of better feats to take.

[JeepthingJim]

This is my first post. I'm building a half giant fighter who will two weapon fight with a bastard sword and shield bash. The sword does 2d8 damage. I'm planning on using vital strike for those occasions that I only have a standard action. The damage is pretty sweet with the large weapon. Your opinions?

[Ssalarn]

This is my first post. I'm building a half giant fighter who will two weapon fight with a bastard sword and shield bash. The sword does 2d8 damage. I'm planning on using vital strike for those occasions that I only have a standard action. The damage is pretty sweet with the large weapon. Your opinions?

Primary Opinion: Play a Daevic or a Psychic Warrior. They can get you more out of the same basic idea. That being said....

The larger your base damage die, the better Vital Strike is. In this instance, you'd be adding about 9 damage per attack on the swing per feat in the base chain. It's still not as good as options that allow you to deal full attack or full attack equivalent actions (like those provided by mounted combat or psionic lion's charge), but it won't be as bad an option as it could be for other characters.

You'd probably be better off forgoing the shield bash though; you could two-hand a Huge bastard sword instead of one-handing a large one, and then you're not trying to shoehorn TWF, shield, and VS feats all onto one build. I'd streamline it a bit, pick up the related feats to Vital Strike like Devastating Strike and Improved Devastating Strike, then after 8th level start using your non-Vital Strike feats to grab things like Improved Critical and the various Critical feats. You'll end up with more or equivalent damage to trying to TWF with a shield and be able to really capitalize on your big swings.

Consider grabbing the impact (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/impact) weapon property when you can to get your base damage up to 4d8 and maximize your return on Vital Strike. Also, if you're really committed to being a Fighter, you should follow the above advice and also take the Two-Handed Fighter (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/fighter.html#two-handed-fighter) archetype. The archetype's Overhand Chop ability that provides 2x Strength to damage is compatible with Vital Strike.

All of those together (Vital Strike, Devastating Strike, Overhand Chop, huge bastard sword, Power Attack, impact property, maybe a reliable way to enlarge yourself) can give you a pretty decent result.

[stack]

Also, posting in really old threads is frowned upon and they get locked by the mods. This thread was from 2011.

[Ssalarn]

Also, posting in really old threads is frowned upon and they get locked by the mods. This thread was from 2011.


Ooh, good catch stack. Jeepthingjim, if you'd like to start a new thread on the subjecct, I'd be more than happy to give you advice there.

[Frosty]

Holy moly I posted this thread a long time ago.

Anyhow, the game with my cavalier didn't work out anyways. We switched to another system and then the game stopped a few months after that rofl.

I've also discovered that Vital Strike is awesome with Eidolon slams. Huge Eidolon + Enlarge Person + Strongjaw (from a wand) + Improved Vital Strike = something averaging 150 damage per hit or more.

[Psyren]

I've also discovered that Vital Strike is awesome with Eidolon slams. Huge Eidolon + Enlarge Person + Strongjaw (from a wand) + Improved Vital Strike = something averaging 150 damage per hit or more.

This doesn't quite work anymore per the FAQ. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u) Now you only get one true size increase (which can be more than one step) plus one effective size increase (which can be more than one step.) Thus your Eidolon's "Large" evolution (a true size increase) will no longer stack with Enlarge Person (another true size increase) but either of them will stack with Strongjaw (an effective size increase.)

In addition, another FAQ standardized damage dice (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t3f) from size increases, so you may want to run your build through that and determine what the final result will be.

Finally I'll add that Vital Strike gets a nice benefit from Pathfinder Unchained's Stamina system, i.e. you can reroll some or all of the damage dice.

[Frosty]

I'm going to ignore that faq as it cuts back on the number of viable options PCs have. Pounce shouldn't be the end all be all.

[Psyren]

I'm going to ignore that faq as it cuts back on the number of viable options PCs have. Pounce shouldn't be the end all be all.

All it dropped was the Enlarge Person from your death slam eidolon of squishy doom, and maybe adjusted a die size or two. How is that not still viable?