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BudgetDM
2011-09-14, 02:31 AM
I am currently working on homebrewing sci-fi and I'm wondering people like in their sci-fi? What do they hate?

Some things I've already decided I'm going to add are:

FTL Travel via Hyperspace
Psionics
Aliens
Ancient Precursors

dsmiles
2011-09-14, 05:27 AM
Favorite Sci-Fi Tropes, eh?


The Doctor
Daleks
Smugglers with junky ships
Cthulhu Mythos (if you look into it, it fits really well in Sci-Fi)

Least favorites:


George Lucas
the Ewok principle
Parsecs as a unit of time, when they're actually a unit of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsec) (Really, Han? Really?)
Greedo shooting first

Eldan
2011-09-14, 05:35 AM
I like:

-Actually alien aliens. Not "Humans, but". Detailed ecology a bonus.
-Alien societies that actually appear stable and functional.
-Transhumanism. In the form of genetic engineering, social engineering, cybernetics, nanotechnology, anything.
-Detailed technology.
-Science fiction, in short. I really like science fiction that does the "What if" thing. "If we had technology X, how would society react and change?".

I dislike:

-One biome/climate planets. Come on, people. Even Mars has more than that, and from our perspective, it's a cold chunk of rock.
-Badly applied technology. If you have Tech X, why not do Application Y?
-No sense of scale.


That, however, is mostly worldbuilding. Interestingly, for my actual stories, I like soft SciFi just as much. I'm a Doctor Who nerd, after all.

Excession
2011-09-14, 06:46 AM
Scavenger World (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScavengerWorld) can to some degree explain badly applied technology. Yeah, you have FTL spaceships and ray guns, but it all has a tendency to stop working or explode when you try to do anything useful with it.

Transplanted Humans (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransplantedHumans), Stargate style if you want actually human aliens, or actually alien humans...

I agree that Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale) is really annoying. 400 billion stars. Just stop and think about that while I laugh at your "galactic empire" :smallsigh:

Gnoman
2011-09-14, 06:57 AM
I've always despised the Outgrown Such Silly Superstitions trope, and the related "Any race that has advanced enough to have mastered interstellar travel will by definition have outgrown all form of confrontation and violence.

Eldan
2011-09-14, 07:30 AM
Scavenger World (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScavengerWorld) can to some degree explain badly applied technology. Yeah, you have FTL spaceships and ray guns, but it all has a tendency to stop working or explode when you try to do anything useful with it.

Transplanted Humans (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TransplantedHumans), Stargate style if you want actually human aliens, or actually alien humans...

I agree that Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale) is really annoying. 400 billion stars. Just stop and think about that while I laugh at your "galactic empire" :smallsigh:

Oh, sure. I just don't like adding "except when it's explained well" to every point I make.

FlyingScanian
2011-09-14, 07:34 AM
I've always despised the Outgrown Such Silly Superstitions trope, and the related "Any race that has advanced enough to have mastered interstellar travel will by definition have outgrown all form of confrontation and violence.

To that, I have but one reply: Schlock Mercenary (especially the editor's note...) (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2000-11-17)

Tengu_temp
2011-09-14, 08:16 AM
Aliens should belong to one of two categories: either very alien and weird, both in their biology and culture, or human-like enough that their females can be attractive to me. Bonus points if you manage to combine both.

I hate when the story paints science as wrong or evil, which happens way too often in sci-fi. I also hate when some kind of Space Elves are painted as better than humans in every way, or when aliens conquer humanity and we're told it's a good thing.

Mastikator
2011-09-14, 08:37 AM
I like hard science fiction over soft science fiction. If you're the reverse then you can reverse this list as well. :smallwink:

Like:
- Age of exploration like space travel. Travel between worlds should take months or even years imo, partially because moving really fast is really costly, partially because livable planets are few and far between.
- Transhumanism
- Realistic weapons, ballistic weapons are more cost effective than laser guns, but on the other hand laser guns have no recoil, sound and is unaffected by wind and gravity, making it ideal sniper weapons and would likely never be used as a hand gun. A gun that fires superheated plasma would vaporize everyone within a fraction of a second, probably only used in space.
- Information is free, all of human knowledge should be at the fingertips of everyone, since computers are incredibly cheap and internet access useable globally and ridiculously fast.
- Robotic civilizations, but as long as they aren't "humans with iron skin" or "metallic but with a human heart". That's just human-centric crap.

Dislike:
- Human aliens, aliens should be really alien
- Robotic sentient lifeforms that resemble humans, just no, they should be more alien than alians
- Psionics and other psudo-fantasy. I'm ok with mind-reading machines though.
- Ancient human civilizations. There were never any humans before us, this one always breaks immersion for me. Ancient alien civilizations on the other hand are likely to exist, the universe is old, if we only go back 1% of the world's time then we've entered ancient times after all ;)

BudgetDM
2011-09-14, 12:47 PM
Favorite Sci-Fi Tropes, eh?


Smugglers with junky ships
Cthulhu Mythos (if you look into it, it fits really well in Sci-Fi)



Yeah, definitely going for smugglers and junky ships.

I hadn't thought about the Cthulhu Mythos though. I probably won't go fully Lovecraftian, but some mindbending alien artifacts would fit nicely.



Least favorites:


the Ewok principle


I'm sure I've heard what it was once, but remind me what the Ewok principle is.


I hate when the story paints science as wrong or evil, which happens way too often in sci-fi. I also hate when some kind of Space Elves are painted as better than humans in every way, or when aliens conquer humanity and we're told it's a good thing.

I am really trying to avoid Space Elves. Because it is annoying, it kills things for you if players don't like them a much as I do, and I want all species open to players, so they should be balanced.



I like hard science fiction over soft science fiction. If you're the reverse then you can reverse this list as well. :smallwink:

Like:
- Realistic weapons, ballistic weapons are more cost effective than laser guns, but on the other hand laser guns have no recoil, sound and is unaffected by wind and gravity, making it ideal sniper weapons and would likely never be used as a hand gun. A gun that fires superheated plasma would vaporize everyone within a fraction of a second, probably only used in space.

I was planning to do this, though for the less scientific reason that I think ballistic weapons are more interesting.



- Information is free, all of human knowledge should be at the fingertips of everyone, since computers are incredibly cheap and internet access useable globally and ridiculously fast.

This is how things are going to be. On Earth. Once you leave Earth, connections speeds, when they exist, are sub dial-up.

And now an additional question. A lot of you have talked about making aliens really alien. Would you consider Chewbacca sufficiently alien? And if not why not?

Tengu_temp
2011-09-14, 12:57 PM
I'm sure I've heard what it was once, but remind me what the Ewok principle is.

It's when a primitive civilisation defeats a much more advanced one for plot reasons and because everyone in the advanced one suddenly started acting like morons. Return of the Jedi and Avatar are prime examples.


And now an additional question. A lot of you have talked about making aliens really alien. Would you consider Chewbacca sufficiently alien? And if not why not?

He's not very alien. He's just a humanoid sloth - clearly based on an Earth animal, just more human-like and intelligent. I wouldn't mind if all aliens were at least as non-human as Chewbacca though, with no rubber foreheads in sight.

The main reason I like human-like female aliens and robots is because I'm a big old pervert. I know well they're completely unrealistic without very good justifications.

flumphy
2011-09-14, 01:11 PM
Likes:

Sapient AI. Robots, intelligent computer programs, etc.
Everyday characters. They're easier to identify and arguably see more interesting parts of society than scientists or space marines.
No aliens. With the size of the universe and frequency of mass extinctions, there's actually a pretty big chance we'll never actually run into another intelligent species. Rather than make up some alien race that's not really believable (and face it, most aren't) why not just keep it to what we know and save the trouble? Unless, of course, you are makinging some social/political point.
Exploration of spirituality. How do religion and philosophy evolve in reaction to new technology? How do they influence scientific advancement?
Warped history. Just as we've forgotten or collectively misinterpreted a lot of things from just a couple centuries ago despite the people back then leaving plentiful written records, the future will likely do the same to us.


Dislikes:

"Planets of Hats", to use the TVTropes name. Basically, alien cultures that are homogenous. In reality, barring some kind of hive mind, an alien species would probably be as varied as humans.
Psionics. Especially on humans, who we know don't have any kind of funky biology to support it. I'm fond of the softer side of sci-fi, but at the same time it really annoys me when it's implied something has a scientific explanation when it clearly can't. Just call it "magic" or "the force" or something and call it a day.
Utopias. Sorry, not going to happen and not believable
Dystopias, unless the work is making a political point. Also unlikely to happen on a large scale, but much easier to stomach than a world where people have actually managed to stop killing each other.
A universal religion, or a complete lack of religion. Again, basic human nature dictates that this will never happen.

Eldan
2011-09-14, 01:21 PM
It's when a primitive civilisation defeats a much more advanced one for plot reasons and because everyone in the advanced one suddenly started acting like morons. Return of the Jedi and Avatar are prime examples.


Note that this doesn't just mean that the "weaker" enemy can win. Infiltration, guerilla warfare and similar strategies can win a one-sided war.
What is meant is "We'll land all our spaceships, then attack the enemy on foot, through the jungle!" or "Oh no, our hovertank was brought down by a kid with a slingshot!" or "They have found the one weakness of our adamantium space marine armour! Arrows!"

Excession
2011-09-14, 07:03 PM
A combination of hyperdrive FTL and no FTL comms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubspaceAnsible) can work well.

No way to phone in the cavalry without spending weeks in transit means you need to fix problems when you find them.
There's always an element of the unknown when you go somewhere, all sorts of stuff could have happened since the last news out of a system.

You may need to explain why they don't use FTL drones for communications. Size is probably best; when the drone is as nearly big and nearly as expensive as your little ship you don't get to have one. Bigger systems might have drones or dedicated mail ships, everyone else just dumps a few petabytes of flash drives onto whoever is leaving next.

I guess this is a bit of Space Is an Ocean (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceIsAnOcean), but I kinda like that in moderation.

Tvtyrant
2011-09-14, 07:57 PM
Dislikes: Special Snowflake Humans. Ultimate example is Halo, where all 5 other species are "unable to innovate" and are rapidly overtaken by humanity in technology. Yeah, because the million years it took us to develop two sided stone tools after developing single sided stone tools totally indicates that we have a magical golden touch when it comes to tech.

claricorp
2011-09-14, 11:41 PM
http://sots.rorschach.net/Main_Page

This is the wiki for SotS, or Sword of the Stars a really fun 4x space game with real time combat, randomized tech trees and other sci fi goodness.

The alien races are really detailed with ecology, backstory and culture so It may definitely be a good thing to look at for inspiration.

Otherwise: Likes
Non Humanoid races are great, but don't feel bad about having a few humanoid-ish ones in there.

Ballistic weapons with maybe a sci fi twist(smart aiming, x-ray scope, curving bullets)

Dislikes.
Energy weapons, they can be acceptable as heavy weapons, but I find a universe where everyone is using a laser pistol or rifle kind of, well, boring.

Eldan
2011-09-15, 04:14 AM
As for FTL communications and ships...

I remember a universe I made up once for a forum strategy game. There were, basically, two categories of ships, in-system slower than light ships, and FTL ships. Those used Alcubierre drives to bend spacetime. However, the engines were absolutely huge, and required things like gigantic antimatter power plants and particle accelerators (bear with me, I'm not a physicist, just a sci-fi reader). So, in the end, FTL ships ended up kilometers long and ungodly expensive, so no one ever really thought of attacking one. Especially since it had tons and tons of antimatter on board.

Lapak
2011-09-15, 09:15 AM
Dislikes: Special Snowflake Humans. Ultimate example is Halo, where all 5 other species are "unable to innovate" and are rapidly overtaken by humanity in technology. Yeah, because the million years it took us to develop two sided stone tools after developing single sided stone tools totally indicates that we have a magical golden touch when it comes to tech.If you haven't read it, you should definitely give 'A Mote In God's Eye' a whirl. Subverts that trope with a vengeance.

Yora
2011-09-15, 09:55 AM
Like:

Technology Porn. Having the futuristic devices based on real world technology and showing it.


Disike:

In a universe of many species, humans are the dominant one.

Tavar
2011-09-15, 10:12 AM
Dislikes: Special Snowflake Humans. Ultimate example is Halo, where all 5 other species are "unable to innovate" and are rapidly overtaken by humanity in technology. Yeah, because the million years it took us to develop two sided stone tools after developing single sided stone tools totally indicates that we have a magical golden touch when it comes to tech.

More than 5 other species(grunts, prophets, engineers, brutes, elites, hunters, drones, etc). On the other hand, their religion/government(it's a theocracy) does do a very good job of inhibiting their tech level. That, and humanity doesn't really seem to innovate too much. The only thing i can think of that's explicitly better are Spartan II shields, and those are only stronger than the Covenants basic foot soldiers: if you start fighting elite Elites, they're rapidly outclassed.

There's also a couple other factors that play into the difference, but that's getting a bit into spoiler territory.

Yora
2011-09-15, 10:21 AM
Humans in halo are technologically inferior to the Covenant, and they actually lose massively. The only thing they get done is killing Gravemind and they do that entirely with forerunner technology. At the end, the great journey is called off and the Covenant dissolves, but the later was caused by Covenant infighting and not by any human victories. On the other hand, the human space empire is completely annihilated.
Okay, Master Chief kills a huge number of equally elite warriors all by himself, but that's because he's a protagonist in a shoter, not because humanity is so great.

hamishspence
2011-09-15, 10:27 AM
It's when a primitive civilisation defeats a much more advanced one for plot reasons and because everyone in the advanced one suddenly started acting like morons. Return of the Jedi and Avatar are prime examples.

Rock Beats Laser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RockBeatsLaser) is one name for it. Sometimes it can make sense.

Tavar
2011-09-15, 10:33 AM
Humans in halo are technologically inferior to the Covenant, and they actually lose massively. The only thing they get done is killing Gravemind and they do that entirely with forerunner technology. At the end, the great journey is called off and the Covenant dissolves, but the later was caused by Covenant infighting and not by any human victories. On the other hand, the human space empire is completely annihilated.
Okay, Master Chief kills a huge number of equally elite warriors all by himself, but that's because he's a protagonist in a shoter, not because humanity is so great.

Technically, there are some colonies left: the skipped a lot when Regret went to Earth.

And, Master Chief(and all Spartans) are super soldiers, and normally they only fight the rank and file of the Covenant. And it's still pretty difficult.

Yora
2011-09-15, 10:36 AM
Regret has 6 or even more Honor Guards with him, I think each of them should be equal to a Spartan.

Emmerask
2011-09-15, 10:39 AM
Least favorites:


Parsecs as a unit of time, when they're actually a unit of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsec) (Really, Han? Really?)


This one I can forgive, it is after all a different galaxy and their naming of units can be different, for all we know there could be the scientist Hugo Parsec who thought up a nice time unit and called it parsec ^^




Greedo shooting first


This on the other hand is unforgivable :-///

hamishspence
2011-09-15, 10:41 AM
This one I can forgive, it is after all a different galaxy and their naming of units can be different, for all we know there could be the scientist Hugo Parsec who thought up a nice time unit and called it parsec ^^

They eventually provided an explanation- the Kessel Run gets more dangerous the shorter the route taken.

Even then, in the scene where Han does it, in Rebel Dawn, Chewie thinks it was a computer malfunction that made the displayed distance that low.

Emmerask
2011-09-15, 10:44 AM
Hm, kessel was the area full of black holes if I remember correctly?
So yes then it would make sense to brag about the short route taken if that leads you through that field instead of around it ^^

hamishspence
2011-09-15, 10:45 AM
To shorten the route enough, he did end up entering the field and coming very close to one of the holes. The fact that there were imperial ships in close pursuit had something to do with it.

dsmiles
2011-09-15, 11:18 AM
That makes sense. I never read any of the books other than the original trilogy.

Tengu_temp
2011-09-15, 01:18 PM
Dislikes: Special Snowflake Humans. Ultimate example is Halo, where all 5 other species are "unable to innovate" and are rapidly overtaken by humanity in technology. Yeah, because the million years it took us to develop two sided stone tools after developing single sided stone tools totally indicates that we have a magical golden touch when it comes to tech.

Similarily: I really dislike when in a universe with many races, humans are the generic ones, the baseline, the jack of all trades and master of none. I like when something that's so ingrained in human nature that's obvious to us is actually shared by very few or even no aliens, and becomes the distinguishing trait of human civilisation among all the races of the universe.

Just don't make that trait "being bastards", because we're entering Avatar territory again.

navar100
2011-09-15, 02:36 PM
I really, really hate it that aliens are always so much superior to humans. They live longer, are stronger, smarter, have psionics, and/or achieved technological breakthroughs much earlier. I am sick of holier than thou aliens insulting humanity. I tire of aliens being practically perfect in almost every way. I am infuriated that humanity always has to prove itself the right to exist.

That is the number one reason I absolutely loved Babylon 5! It did the exact opposite of everything! Some aliens were "better" - stronger, more technologically advanced, etc., but it was not about being better than humans. It was part of the main Plot and involved all aliens. Humanity had psionics, even if Psi-Corps were bad guys. Humanity was treated as equals and even praised in different episodes by the Narn, Centuari, and Minbari. The Narn and Centauri go to war. The Minbari had a civil war. Humanity had nothing to do with it! They had their own troubles for their own sake. They were not perfect! I especially loved the Minbari Civil War storyline. Up to that point they were getting a bit uppity, but they showed they weren't practically perfect in every way at all.

I like Star Trek, but oh man do I hate Vulcans, Q, Romulans, Klingons, Psionic Alien of the Week, and Bajorans. Yes, Bajorans, for they achieved space travel when humans were in the Middle Ages. I don't like the Ferengi either but for unrelated reasons. The Cardassians and the Dominion made for good villains.

I didn't like the destruction of Vulcan in the Star Trek reboot because I don't like the alternative time line story arc they are shoving down our throats, but I can't say I'm too upset. Kind of like how I chuckle at the destruction of the Elven Empires in Dragonlance, Age of Mortals. I hate Elves.

BudgetDM
2011-09-15, 04:55 PM
Lots of helpful suggestions, thanks. I am noticing that most people seem to like their sci-fi rather harder than I do. I am aiming for 2 to 3 on Mohs Scale Of Science Fiction Hardness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness), while much of you seem to be more in the 4 to 5 range. That's fine, but I'm wondering if maybe Planetary Romance or Raygun Gothic would be a better description for my setting.


Rock Beats Laser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RockBeatsLaser) is one name for it. Sometimes it can make sense.

I was planning on using Rock[1] Waits Til Laser Finishes Destroying Itself In A Civil War, Then Finishing Off the Survivors[2], in one species backstory.


Similarily: I really dislike when in a universe with many races, humans are the generic ones, the baseline, the jack of all trades and master of none. I like when something that's so ingrained in human nature that's obvious to us is actually shared by very few or even no aliens, and becomes the distinguishing trait of human civilisation among all the races of the universe.

Just don't make that trait "being bastards", because we're entering Avatar territory again.

I have though about this. My problem is I can't make it work in game terms.


I really, really hate it that aliens are always so much superior to humans. They live longer, are stronger, smarter, have psionics, and/or achieved technological breakthroughs much earlier. I am sick of holier than thou aliens insulting humanity. I tire of aliens being practically perfect in almost every way. I am infuriated that humanity always has to prove itself the right to exist.
[snip]
I like Star Trek, but oh man do I hate Vulcans, Q, Romulans, Klingons, Psionic Alien of the Week, and Bajorans. Yes, Bajorans, for they achieved space travel when humans were in the Middle Ages. I don't like the Ferengi either but for unrelated reasons. The Cardassians and the Dominion made for good villains.

I'm thinking for having a Vulcan-like species in the setting. Very smart, very logical, VERY prone to analysis paralysis. It is often half jokingly suggested that the reason that they and humanity get along so well is humanity envies the wonders of their technology and intelligence and they envy our ability to choose between paper or plastic in under ten minutes.

[1]Technically Flintlock, but that's beside the point.
[2]Really rolls off the tongue, don't it?

Tavar
2011-09-15, 05:30 PM
I like Star Trek, but oh man do I hate Vulcans, Q, Romulans, Klingons, Psionic Alien of the Week, and Bajorans. Yes, Bajorans, for they achieved space travel when humans were in the Middle Ages. I don't like the Ferengi either but for unrelated reasons. The Cardassians and the Dominion made for good villains.


So....nothing can be superior in any way to anyone else? Not even simply based on time(some of those species came into being long before the others)? That sounds just downright odd.

TheThan
2011-09-15, 05:55 PM
Likes:
Green skinned alien space babes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwOKjWpTnwY)
A used universe
Space ships (particularly star fighters and junky smuggling ships)

Dislikes
Techno babble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag&feature=related)
An entire Race of villains
“Science solves everything”
Mary sue races (be it human or otherwise)

navar100
2011-09-15, 06:38 PM
So....nothing can be superior in any way to anyone else? Not even simply based on time(some of those species came into being long before the others)? That sounds just downright odd.

No, a few are fine, just not everyone!

Babylon 5 had the Vorlons, Shadows, Technomages, and Minbari as being more advanced than Humanity. The Vorlons and Shadows were about Plot and were more advanced than everyone. The Technomages are just a story arc and actually like humans, more specifically the Babylon 5 crew. Minbari was a major plot and character point. However, the Centauri are equal to Humanity. Narn I gathered was a bit less technologically, but not much, yet even better, they don't have psionics! NPC aliens are at best equal to Humans and in some cases less advanced. More importantly, Humanity was treated as equals.

In Star Trek, practically every other alien of the week had psionics or some special power. They live for hundreds of years or made scientific breakthroughs long before humanity ever did. Yes, there were some episodes where the alien of the week was of a much less technological level, that's why I said "every other". The last straw was the Deep Space Nine episode when it was revealed Bajorans had space travel when humanity was in the Middle Ages. I'm not saying Bajor had to be this backwatered pathetic planet that looks up to Pakled. I was ok with them having the Orbs of the Prophets. It would have been enough that Bajor would have been as prosperous as Earth if not for the Cardassian occupation. However, to make such a big deal out of even Bajorans being more advanced than Humanity just broke my tolerance. At the time I could actually say I liked Babylon 5 more than Star Trek precisely because the Babylon 5 universe was populated by imperfect aliens of all kinds instead of everyone is so superior and perfect, then Humanity, then the token less advanced planets. Star Trek Insurrection even sucker punched you on that, where what was thought to be a less advanced society is actually more and had powers.

Emmerask
2011-09-15, 06:48 PM
Dislikes
Techno babble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag&feature=related)

This was truly awesome :smallbiggrin:

hamishspence
2011-09-16, 02:48 AM
That makes sense. I never read any of the books other than the original trilogy.

Sometimes the EU novels handle it well, sometimes they don't. I personally think the Han Solo prequel trilogy by A C. Crispin, does handle things well.

It's interesting to see the events that Greedo alludes to, when he mentions Han "dropping his spice at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser".

Ormur
2011-09-18, 02:48 PM
I'm not so particular about the hardness of my Sci-Fi even though I like to be provided with plausible explanations for the technology used. But I do hate technobabble, I'd rather have no explanation given than one that makes no sense. I don't have anything against FTL drives if the setting requires it but not having one can place some interesting constraints on the story.

The most important thing for me is verisimilitude. I want to see what effect the technology and history of the setting has on the life and culture of those living in it. I want it to be hard Sci-Fi in the social sciences so to speak. I can excuse human-like aliens if it's meant to explore the human psyche. Truly alien aliens are more realistic and more interesting if you want to explore something different and you don't have to be making a point.

Many people have complained about "outgrowing those silly superstitions", that doesn't really bother me, perhaps because of a personal bias but also because I don't think it's necessarily unrealistic up to a point. No superstition or spirituality probably is but space popes and rocket-ship chaplains don't have to be any more likely than the conquest of materialism.

Anderlith
2011-09-18, 03:04 PM
I like
-Firefly
-Stargate (Movie, SG-1, Atlantis, Universe)
-Boba Fett (No he did NOT die in the Sarlacc pit)
-Space Cowboys (done right)
-Other worldliness. You need a hazmat suit unless the planet's been terraformed

Dislike
-Mass Effect
-Aliens (I really really hate the idea of aliens, especially if they are more advanced than us & arrogant about it)
-Aliens with only one genetic personality (Klingons, Krogan etc.)
-FTL drives. Seriously just have a warp field or open a tesseract. Don't rewrite physics
-Lightsabers
-Flashy Force powers
-Alliance, Republic, Federation, Empire or any other large enforcible governmental ability.
-FTL Communications, unless you have open a tesseract or perform a "Pony Express in space" I prefer the latter.

Mx.Silver
2011-09-18, 04:41 PM
Likes
- Inhospitable planets
Basically, most worlds are unlikely to have breathable atmospheres before extensive terraforming.
- Pretty Scenery
As most people are aware, astral phenomena look awesome. So do a lot of geographical landscapes, and alien lanscapes should do similar, but with hopefully an otherworldly feel to them
- Varied planetary climates
Pretty self-explanatory
- 'Realistic' races. If aliens are included - I have no real preference either way - they should probably have some cultural diversity and not turn into 'orcs' nor 'elves'.


Dislikes
-Humans are special/Humans are bastards

- Sound in Space
Yeah, I don't care what handwave writers throw in, this just shouldn't exist.

- Short Range Space Battles
Space is big. Really, really big. You may think it's a long walk down to the post office, but that's peanuts to space. As such, if any combat-ships are routinely engaging at distances with clear visual range then something has gone horribly wrong. Ideally, ranges of light-seconds should be an absolute minimum. This is assuming you're setting even calls for ship combat

- 2-d Space
Related to the above. Space is not a flat plane and as such shouldn't be treated as such by anyone flying around it. Can be excused for certain videogames, but that's about it

- Half-racial hybrids
I have nothing against humanoid aliens. However, given that humans are incapable of reproducing with any other earth species, there should be no possibility of them doing so with a species from another world. Genetically engineered fusion races are tolerable, provided it's made clear they're laboratory-made.

- 'Psionics' and 'Transcendance of the Physical'
Although these two are different tropes, I'm dealing with them both at once because they suffer from the same problem: they're fantasy concepts. In the case of Psionics/psychic powers (telepathy, telekinesis etc.) it's blindingly obvious to everyone that they're just magic spells/abilities with a different paint job, yet they keep cropping up in 'science' fiction - although Farscape and 40k do at least refer to them as being magic - and as such just look like a cop-out way of putting wizards in your spaceships. Transcendental beings, for the most part, are essentially gods/spirits IN SPACE and as such are also magic. There are a couple of exceptions to this, but unless a trenscendant entity could be mistaken for Wintermute and/or Neuromancer is probably isn't one of these exceptions.

GenericGuy
2011-09-18, 04:57 PM
Like

Everything navar100 said (humans have quite better eyesight and astounding endurance, when compared to other life on this planet. Why can’t these ever be our “superpower” as a species, instead some lame “power of heart” or “power of friendship” crap, when the series isn’t just droneing on and on about how much humanity sucks?)

Starfish Alien’s as the norm

Green Skinned Space Babes (I always make them an artificially designed race, to explain the similarities with humans)

Transhumanism common (not just replacing severed limbs due to injury)

AI Gods (the smartest and scariest thing in the universe is massive “robotic empire,” but at best is apathetic to the bio sapients)

Dislike

All Humans under one government (this was never true in human history, and will never be true)

No explanation for lack of transhumanism (even Star Trek explains that genetics technology has been banned, why can’t other series at least give a few throw away lines for their lack of transhumanism?)

Psychics

Lack of “spacers” (why would so many people bother living on an alien planet, when a Space Station can be built specifically for a particular species needs?)

Frozen_Feet
2011-09-18, 05:25 PM
Similarily: I really dislike when in a universe with many races, humans are the generic ones, the baseline, the jack of all trades and master of none. I like when something that's so ingrained in human nature that's obvious to us is actually shared by very few or even no aliens, and becomes the distinguishing trait of human civilisation among all the races of the universe.


My big favorite for subverting that is speech. Either aliens don't talk, or they talk on frequencies inaudible to humans (or vice versa.)

An idea I've been thinking of is a setting where humans are the "ultimate translators". There are two or more other species whose ways of communication have poor overlap - one does not see the colors used by the other, and the other does not hear voices used by the one (etc.). Humans, however, can see both the colors and hear the sounds, meaning they can convey meaning between the other species much cheaper and easier than any machine.

Kaun
2011-09-18, 08:54 PM
Likes.
Charles Stross; Singularity sky/Iron sunrise style sci-fi
Understandable technology paths.
no FTL comms

Dislikes
Aliens galore
Large scale war being fought just like today only with shiny new toys.


Figuring out how communication is done over long distances is key in making a sci-fi setting, it really shapes how everything is done.

Eldan
2011-09-19, 04:35 AM
Like

Transhumanism common (not just replacing severed limbs due to injury)


Yes, dammit. I want my Snake Eyes, Fish lungs and brain-implanted TV remote!

drakir_nosslin
2011-09-19, 04:41 AM
Likes:
Humans are warriors
Transhumanism
Bio-engineering
AI
Alien aliens (ie. no space humans)
Physics That Makes Sense
Dirty Future

Dislikes:
Technobabble
Utopias & Dystopias
Badly explained ecosystems

dsmiles
2011-09-19, 06:06 AM
Oooh. That 's something I forgot:

Dystopias. Love 'em.

The society in Blade Runner is a particular favorite.

Gnoman
2011-09-19, 07:30 AM
Ideally, ranges of light-seconds should be an absolute minimum.


To be honest, that's absurd. Far more absurd than the point-blank ranges more people complain about. At even one light-second (299,792.458 kilometers), the only weapons system that would be useful are lasers and FTL guided missiles (which are nixed in harder scifi). Even lasers would become chancy beyond two or three.

Why?

Because, barring some form of FTL sensor, you won't be able to track the target. Even at speeds that would allow easy maneuvering (even speeds comprable to atmospheric fighters), you would move far enough in those seconds that prediction would be nearly impossible. STL missiles and kinetic weapons would take so long to reach the target that they would be useless. Practical space combat would probably take place in the 50,000 KM range, or 100,000 at the very most. The lag would be to great otherwise.

Mx.Silver
2011-09-19, 07:47 AM
Because, barring some form of FTL sensor, you won't be able to track the target.
I'm well aware of this. I would also note that I don't consider a lack of spaceship combat to be a bad thing. At all.

Gnoman
2011-09-19, 07:54 AM
So, in other words, you dislike ship to ship combat, but insist that anyone who puts it in anyway should have it at impossible ranges?

hamishspence
2011-09-19, 08:25 AM
Lasers and particle beam weapons diffract with range- even in the absence of atmosphere.

This may limit long ranged combats compared to ones using homing missiles or similar weapons.

Gnoman
2011-09-19, 10:04 AM
Depends on power. A beam of a few megawatts would probably continue that far. A valid point, however, and one which I overlooked in my brief overview.

hamishspence
2011-09-19, 10:08 AM
Power isn't the issue- diameter of the beam is. As a general rule, the wider the beam, the less serious the diffraction.

If the beam diffracts enough (combined with a power that's a little too low), when it hits the target all it will do is heat it up a small fraction.

Gnoman
2011-09-19, 10:20 AM
Power still matters. You can't control the diffusion too well, but you can pump enough energy into the beam to offset it. Of course, you'ld still be better off closing to a more efficient range, but more powerful lasers would have longer ranges.

hamishspence
2011-09-19, 10:31 AM
True. Might be interesting to estimate the power requirements of a war laser.

Laser damage, if intense enough and of short enough duration, can work like explosives.

An "energy density" of 1 megajoule per square cm, might do as much damage as 300 g of high explosives would to the same square cm.

Tvtyrant
2011-09-19, 02:02 PM
One thing about really long range space combat is that you can only approach a gravity well along a few essentially set paths to enter it, so attacking a planet would take on the nature of suicide fairly early due to small defense satellites and mines being dropped along the incoming paths. A planet could essentially say "no" to space travel by filling its paths with junk so no one could get in.

Frozen_Feet
2011-09-19, 02:10 PM
Such approach would inevitably lead to anyone being unable to get out, either. Space debris is becoming a problem even now when we're not deliberately trying to fill our close orbits with fast-flying shrapnell.

Actually putting mines on orbit = take off becomes nearly impossible. Not good for space travel, or even just using satellites.

---

Now, one of my least favorite tropes in all of fiction is "What measure is non-human?", or at least the way how different beings are valued according to how close they are to humanity - even when "humanity" would not consist any improvement whatsoever over their non-human existence. Especially jarring if invoked against transhuman or superhuman entities. I'd like to see more works where non-humans are recognized as equally as or more valuable than humans despite being nothing like us.

Tvtyrant
2011-09-19, 02:12 PM
Such approach would inevitably lead to anyone being unable to get out, either. Space debris is becoming a problem even now when we're not deliberately trying to fill our close orbits with fast-flying shrapnell.

Actually putting mines on orbit = take off becomes nearly impossible. Not good for space travel, or even just using satellites.

---


That is why I said "no to space travel." Technological abandonment for the win!

GungHo
2011-09-19, 02:34 PM
-FTL drives. Seriously just have a warp field or open a tesseract. Don't rewrite physics
Ok... let's pretend that I know what a tesseract is geometrically. Why do you think "opening" one would keep you from having to "rewrite physics"?

hamishspence
2011-09-19, 03:03 PM
tesseracts are four-dimensional shapes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract
I'm not sure how one could be "opened".

flumphy
2011-09-19, 03:09 PM
I think he means a wormhole-type-thing; at least, that's how they use the term in A Wrinkle in Time. Basically, you take a shortcut through the fourth dimension, traveling a much shorter distance than you would in the third dimension.

I opted to take thermodynamics in college instead of astrophysics, though, so I have no idea how the above holds up to reality...Really, astrophysics scares me. :smalleek:

stainboy
2011-09-19, 05:05 PM
E: The board ate my post so I reposted. Sorry if this shows up twice.

Favorite:

Greebles. Everything should be greebled. Greeble your ships, greeble your guns, greeble your humans to make forehead aliens, greeble your greebles, dawg.
Alien strippers.
Skynet.
Crapsack cities. The cops don't even go into the Lower City and in the Upper City the bots shoot criminals on sight.


Least Favorite:

The Pan-Galactic Confederation. Real humans can't agree on anything. See also: benevolent dictatorships.
Conflicts with an incomprehensibly huge scope. For a hundred thousand years, the Pan-Galactic Confederation has ruled over a billion worlds and ten quadrillion people. Our hero's actions will affect all of them.


Don't Make Sense, but I Don't Really Mind Them:

Computer technology stuck in the 70's. Bill Gates was right: the internet was a fad.
Aerodynamic spaceships.

navar100
2011-09-19, 06:34 PM
Sidestep:

I really appreciate that in "World War Z" the Zombie Apocalypse is actually defeated for a change and society returns to somewhat normal. I like Zombie Apocalypse stories. Love "The Walking Dead" on AMC. I like the Residential Evil movies, "28 Days Later", "Night of the Living Dead", etc., but it is nice for once to see the world recover from the outbreak.

Technically the living "win" in "Night of the Living Dead", but the cult following made the sequels have the Zombie Apocalypse win.

TheThan
2011-09-19, 07:06 PM
While not necessary, aerodynamics are nice for space ships. Otherwise you end up with flying (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqjupoHRVs#t=09m58s) Bricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYR41sD1wk&feature=related#t=04m55s). Also you know, atmospheric capabilities are nice to have.

Kaun
2011-09-19, 08:41 PM
While not necessary, aerodynamics are nice for space ships. Otherwise you end up with flying (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqjupoHRVs#t=09m58s) Bricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYR41sD1wk&feature=related#t=04m55s). Also you know, atmospheric capabilities are nice to have.

I guess it all comes down to the size of the engine/drive that is required for travel between systems. If the engine/drive requires the ship to be over a certain Mass/Size then atmospheric capabilities become difficult regardless of how aerodynamic it is.

TheThan
2011-09-19, 10:10 PM
True, but we have built some pretty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380) big (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225) aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules).

Naturally, the more advanced a society gets, the smaller/compact, efficient, powerful and cost effective the technology gets. Heck we can say this about any sort of tech. Just look at quickly cell phone tech is evolving.

Anderlith
2011-09-20, 12:29 AM
Ok... let's pretend that I know what a tesseract is geometrically. Why do you think "opening" one would keep you from having to "rewrite physics"?

Yes, I was talking about it as it is in a "Wrinkle in Time". You basically fold space in on itself to make the distance shorter, & according to Einstein it's possible. Imagine folding walking down the road 10 miles from on house to another. Now imagine you had a device to condense the road & fold it so that the houses were right next to each other.

I don't like it when ships can just go faster than light & it is never explained well. You cannot travel faster than light, & you sure as heck can't communicate faster than light.

Mastikator
2011-09-20, 01:05 AM
Well, if tachyons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon) turn out to exist and we can interact with them, then FTL communication may be possible.
I am pretty sure this is used in Star Trek at occasions, but most of the time they just refer to the "subspace", which they never define.

Ravens_cry
2011-09-20, 04:32 AM
I am getting tired of the Humans are Bastards trope, especially when aliens are involved. It can, in theory, be used well, at least at the time I enjoyed "Out of the Silent Planet", but writers who make aliens their idea of enlightened angels and humans, except possibly the one that "goes native", are all war hungry kill meisters who eat puppies for bunch and wash it down with the blood of virgins gets rather . . .old after a while.
I like humans. Humans can certainly be bastards yes, but on the whole I prefer the "Humans are Flawed" trope. The resonates much more with me. WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE, to quote someone else also deeply fascinated by humanity, puts it best in my opinion. Being imperfect makes the good we do all the more cherishable.
For it comes not from a being who can do no wrong but from a being who can and decided to do other.

As for FTL, well, it's pretty much needed for any story that is going to be told within the lifetimes of unmodified humans about interstellar travel. There has been exceptions, Stephen Baxter's Manifold: Space, an interstellar quantum teleporter restricted to light speed being the mode of transport, but I don't think that plot device suits all stories.

Yora
2011-09-20, 09:26 AM
That's what I like about Babylon 5. The Minbari try to make everyone belive that they are so incredibly advanced and enlightened and intelectually and culturally vastly superior to anyone else, but they really are ultra violent backstabbing bastards. Even the supposedly savage Narn seem more peaceful and disciplined.

Eldan
2011-09-20, 09:30 AM
As for FTL, well, it's pretty much needed for any story that is going to be told within the lifetimes of unmodified humans about interstellar travel. There has been exceptions, Stephen Baxter's Manifold: Space, an interstellar quantum teleporter restricted to light speed being the mode of transport, but I don't think that plot device suits all stories.

Have a look at Alastair Reynolds:
His Revelation Space series has interstellar humanity limited to sublight and an acceleration of about 1G on large ships.
They have longevity treatments, but most of the series is set in two to three hundred years from now, and the main system, Epsilon Eridani, is just a bit more than ten light years from Earth. They still make 30-year cryogenic trips if they want to travel anywhere. And cryogenics are far from perfect. People die, loose their memories, get sick... they still do it.

Emmerask
2011-09-20, 09:37 AM
I don't like it when ships can just go faster than light & it is never explained well. You cannot travel faster than light, & you sure as heck can't communicate faster than light.

Well there is for one thing quantum tunneling which in theory could transfer information between two points instantaneously

Quantum pairs are another thing which potentially could be abused for a two way communication (nature article 2008: "On the basis of their measurements, the team concluded that if the photons had communicated, they must have done so at least 100,000 times faster than the speed of light")

Tachyons have already been mentioned

Also I think gravity (whatever gravity is) has been shown in experiments to happen instantaneously

And then of course there is always the possibility that our physics is simply completely wrong, yes it explains a lot but it also uses a lot of stuff handwaved out of thin air to do so, dark energy/matter for example.
And of course it can´t explain a lot too, gravity for example.

Gnoman
2011-09-20, 09:54 AM
Or the possibility that what we call "physics" is just part of a superset of universal laws.

GungHo
2011-09-20, 11:55 AM
Yes, I was talking about it as it is in a "Wrinkle in Time". You basically fold space in on itself to make the distance shorter, & according to Einstein it's possible. Imagine folding walking down the road 10 miles from on house to another. Now imagine you had a device to condense the road & fold it so that the houses were right next to each other.
Wow. Sounds like it'd suck to be the other house next to me that you just displaced.

Got any idea as to how anyone would do that? Power it? Stabilize it? Are we gonna fall back on "exotic matter" that can do anything physics says it can't and hope that it "balances the equation"? If you need the Casimir effect to generate a negative energy density on "this side" (assuming semi-classical gravity really applies and you can actually violate the average null density condition in the first place), do you also need it to be created on "the other side"? Who is gonna do that for you?

There's a lot of "what ifs" floating around for wormholes. We can throw technobabble at it and even have theoretical physicists weigh in by proxy, but if it's just something relegated to "math is fun" and it's not something that can be demonstrated except at the most infinitesimal level or if it's something that requires an infinite amount of energy, then it's pretty darn near magic to me.

Frozen_Feet
2011-09-20, 01:17 PM
Or the possibility that what we call "physics" is just part of a superset of universal laws.

Or, in other words, natural is subset of the supernatural.

Eldan
2011-09-20, 01:26 PM
Got any idea as to how anyone would do that? Power it? Stabilize it? Are we gonna fall back on "exotic matter" that can do anything physics says it can't and hope that it "balances the equation"? If you need the Casimir effect to generate a negative energy density on "this side" (assuming semi-classical gravity really applies and you can actually violate the average null density condition in the first place), do you also need it to be created on "the other side"? Who is gonna do that for you?


Actually, the way I understand folded space, anything in between is still there. Just squished. But because everyting in there is squished along with it, they don't notice.

Or something. I'm not a physicist, just a Sci-fi reader.

TheThan
2011-09-20, 01:43 PM
Yeah I’m not a fan of really hard sci-fi. I prefer “space operas” and the like. Where the story is focused on the people, not the technology or science behind how they can do stuff (see my technobabble complaint). To me it doesn’t really matter how the ships travel to planet to planet, it’s just a handy plot device to get them there. So when I read about them activating their magical FTL device it's perfectly ok with me. I don't stop and go "that's impossible" or "how do they do it?" I just keep reading.

Not everything needs an explanation. I mean seriously how often have to stopped to explain how your smart phone works? Or how the engine in your car works? I'm willing to bet its "very rarely" or "not at all". We're just glad we have the technology and that it works.

Frozen_Feet
2011-09-20, 02:23 PM
Actually, the way I understand folded space, anything in between is still there. Just squished. But because everyting in there is squished along with it, they don't notice.

Analogy for folded space:

Take a piece of paper. Draw a line on it, with dots at each end. Now fold the paper so that the dots are against each other. Notice how, if following the line across the paper's surface, the distance between the two is still the same? Okay. Now strike a needle through the dots. Going through the folded paper is a much shorter route between the dots, is it not? (http://dabacon.org/pontiff/wp-content/MAGE32AX.GIF)

The line, and the surface of the paper, represent normal space. As you can see, anything you draw on the surface is still there. Were you a two-dimensional picture on the surface, you wouldn't notice any difference since you couldn't perceive how the paper is folded in the third dimension.

Considering theories that posit there are more than three dimensions plus time, it is very possible that two locations that are far from each other in three dimensions are actually very close in fourth, or fifth, or sixth - that is, the multidimensional shape of the universe is akin to a crumpled ball of paper. As such, there should be shortcuts between different parts of the surface of the paper (our three dimensions), allowing... well, faster-than-light travel is not really proper name for it. At no point are you moving faster than light. You are simply taking a shorter route.

GungHo
2011-09-20, 03:39 PM
Not going to make anything better so self-moderating.

Yora
2011-09-20, 03:58 PM
At no point are you moving faster than light. You are simply taking a shorter route.
It's the ultimate way of cheating everyday physics. :smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2011-09-20, 04:53 PM
Have a look at Alastair Reynolds:
His Revelation Space series has interstellar humanity limited to sublight and an acceleration of about 1G on large ships.
They have longevity treatments, but most of the series is set in two to three hundred years from now, and the main system, Epsilon Eridani, is just a bit more than ten light years from Earth. They still make 30-year cryogenic trips if they want to travel anywhere. And cryogenics are far from perfect. People die, loose their memories, get sick... they still do it.
I did say there is exceptions.
***
I came up with a drive called a "Metric Leap". The ship travels to a different universe that is smaller than our own. For every, say mile you travel in one universe, you move one million miles in home universe, like shining a laser at a distant point and moving it a little at the emitter makes the spot move a lot. Scientific by our universes rules? Hell no, but I am making it consistent, which is far, far more important. FTL signals are sent through wormhole relays kept in a harder vacuum than interstellar space.
Unfortunately, FTL travel breaks a wormhole connection, so they have to be sent slow path, which is very, very slow. The only other FTL is basically sending a ship as courier. Sometimes manned, but most often a robotic ship that can take the strain of transition of smaller universes better.
I am not sure of I should add this technology to the setting, but I had an idea for an advanced energy source that holds open the gate for a metric jump to a younger universe.
Just after its big bang young. Once again, metric jumps cut off the connection, so only space stations, power plants, and (large) interplanetary vessels of advanced cultures have them. I call it "Deep Tap"
Interplanetary travel I want to be like, what I hope anyway, NASA will have in 50-100 years.
So it's slow.
What does this mean for the setting? It means colonies, once planted, are pretty isolated from the greater community until they develop the infrastructure to send a wormhole link back to the home culture.
This means you get some very diverse cultures even within the same species.
And no, not just humans.
Only one species so far is basically humanoid besides us and they look like a sad baboon crossed with an elf.
Another has a bifurcated tail as a manipulator, they are quadrupeds.

Anderlith
2011-09-20, 05:32 PM
Wow. Sounds like it'd suck to be the other house next to me that you just displaced.

Got any idea as to how anyone would do that? Power it? Stabilize it? Are we gonna fall back on "exotic matter" that can do anything physics says it can't and hope that it "balances the equation"? If you need the Casimir effect to generate a negative energy density on "this side" (assuming semi-classical gravity really applies and you can actually violate the average null density condition in the first place), do you also need it to be created on "the other side"? Who is gonna do that for you?

There's a lot of "what ifs" floating around for wormholes. We can throw technobabble at it and even have theoretical physicists weigh in by proxy, but if it's just something relegated to "math is fun" and it's not something that can be demonstrated except at the most infinitesimal level or if it's something that requires an infinite amount of energy, then it's pretty darn near magic to me.

That is why you need a tesseract (n^4). You do not manipulate the third dimension (n^3). Frozenfeet has the right of it. We are not limited by length, width, depth & duration. There are other fuzzier measurements to Creation

Emmerask
2011-09-23, 08:52 AM
Another thing to add to my "I´m not so sure about special relativity" post

The article is a bit lurid and focuses a bit much on "Einstein was wrong" instead of focusing on what could this mean for us but still interesting.

And of course the test has to be proven by other scientists...

Cern scientists break the speed of light (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8782895/CERN-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light.html)

Frozen_Feet
2011-09-23, 08:59 AM
At least one article on the news suggested that the reason those particles broke speed of light was because they traveled partially through different dimension, akin to what was talked about earlier.

byaku rai
2011-09-23, 11:08 AM
Likes:
1. Alien precursors. essentially, I like the idea that there was some race that came along an incomprehensibly long time before anything else, and had ridiculously advanced tech before disappearing. Can be made Lovecraftian if needs be.

2. Alien aliens. none of this "like humans, but..." crap.

3. AI singularity. Robots and computers which are so much smarter than us that it hurts, and have made an AI society which pretty much ignores us meatbags.

I'll post my dislikes later.

Sith_Happens
2011-09-24, 02:07 AM
Parsecs as a unit of time, when they're actually a unit of distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsec) (Really, Han? Really?)

Hey, it clearly explains in the novels that he was referring to the fact that he discovered a shortcut.:smalltongue:

EDIT: Ninja'd by two pages.:elan:

Kol Korran
2011-09-25, 09:20 AM
hmmmmm, i'm not that a great reader/ gamer of sci-fi, and a lot of good things have been said already, so i'll try no to repeat. ok, lets see:

- i like stories with no aliens, just humans and the way they developed across the stars. the emphasis is on the evolution of human history, culture and so on. i especially like the influence of living on different planets with different conditions, but also the appearance of new religions, philosophies, and so on (that MAKE SENSE) that are not just a copy of an exisiting or past culture, but something that is evolved, that needed human growing up.

- i also like sci fi with aliens, which can be "humanoind" or otherworldly, but they need to be DONE well- no singular personality for a race, no single technology, theme and so on. they need to be quite complex, and not copies of humans (in terms of mind set), but actually Alien. different specimen can't seem as copies.

i love it when there is quite a bit unknown about other races, a feeling of general mistrust and uncertainty (though some races may be more close).

there was a quite old series of books (12 years?) which unfortunately i don't remember, which told the story of a small ship of tiger like creatures, that felt quite different than humans. there were about 5 other races in the sector, and boy where they different and interesting! each was unique, strange to the others, and they could barely communicate and work. i was especially impressed by one strange race, with an unpronouncable name. everyone feared them, but not because they were "Evil" or "on the verge of enslaving" or so on. no- they were just so alien, no one could communicate with them, and no one understood why or how they bloody did things! they would appear in a system, and either vblast something, pass through it, scan a planet, go back, or through some stuff (it took the races time to understand this was trade, and to give stuff back... took longer time to udnderstand what they want). no one ever saw the race. just their ships. they never showed themselves.

- i like innovative influences of science on culture, affairs and so on. i'm no science guy, so it needs to make the basic sense to me and that's all. i really love long voyages between planets, due to travel time. this was very interesting in the Ender series (book 2-4), in which travel between planets took many years, meaning that you"jumped through history" to get there. an interesting thing wa that they had the technology to send information only (wasn't quite explained), so tech and cultural advancement were shared between humanity, but on the most parts, people isolated a planet, and then they were on their own.

the dune series also brought in a few interesting ideas- the spice giving psychic abilities, the Bene Gesserit, the curious spell travels, the outlawing of thinking machines, which brought forth the mentats. i really liked how the focus was shifted from perfecting technologies, to perfecting human inborn powers. a lovely approach.

- i love different levels on technology between settlements and/ or planets. Fire fly does this very well, from horse riders to space thingies, and with a fairly believable explanation.

- as been mentioned by many, humans as just "one of the races"- not superior, not the leaders/ alliance builders/ diplomats/ galactic bastards/ masters of craftiness and ingenuity. they have their own problems, just as other races do, each to their own. needed repeating

- i love language differences. between our time and the future (incorporation of chinese in firefly) or between worlds and races. it just gives me more immersion. IF it's done right.

ok, i think i'll stop here.

hamishspence
2011-09-26, 01:38 PM
Hey, it clearly explains in the novels that he was referring to the fact that he discovered a shortcut.:smalltongue:

I mentioned that back on the first page:


They eventually provided an explanation- the Kessel Run gets more dangerous the shorter the route taken.

Even then, in the scene where Han does it, in Rebel Dawn, Chewie thinks it was a computer malfunction that made the displayed distance that low.