Tainted Lore

[OracleofSilence]

Recently, i gave into temptation and began examining the Tainted Scholar PrC. While I can see that its class features are easily on par with other OP full caster prestige classes, I appear to be missing the exact mechanic that gives it it's so called "ultimate powah". While tainted casting is very ppowerful, it does not appear to do what I have heard: it does not appear to be able to produce Limitless CL, or limitless Spells per day, due to the very real wording of Taint. If Taint reaches some number defined by your Con, you die, or are rendered Insane (and thus become an NPC). However, the consensus is that it can. What am I missing?

[Dumbledore lives]

I believe, and I could be wrong, that being undead means you don't incur the negative penalties of taint, up to and including death. This is compounded by the very easy and LA free Necropalitan template from Libris Mortis and then boom, save or dies become don't save just die, and you have just about all the spells per day.

[OracleofSilence]

Ah. Yes, that would explain it. Checking now...

Yeah, its there, nestled into the long list of initial taint stuff. Thanks for that, i was wondering what was up with that.

[Wings of Peace]

The evil subtype also fits the bill and can be gained via a ritual from Savage Species!

[Alleran]

The evil subtype also fits the bill and can be gained via a ritual from Savage Species!
And if I'm recalling the rules correctly, switching to Undead or gaining the evil subtype also gives you a nice little chunk of taint to get you started on your ascension to unlimited spellcasting power.

Tainted Scholar would be much more palatable if it wasn't so easy to avoid the negative effects of Taint, frankly.

[tyckspoon]

Recently, i gave into temptation and began examining the Tainted Scholar PrC. While I can see that its class features are easily on par with other OP full caster prestige classes, I appear to be missing the exact mechanic that gives it it's so called "ultimate powah". While tainted casting is very ppowerful, it does not appear to do what I have heard: it does not appear to be able to produce Limitless CL, or limitless Spells per day, due to the very real wording of Taint. If Taint reaches some number defined by your Con, you die, or are rendered Insane (and thus become an NPC). However, the consensus is that it can. What am I missing?

Note that at least by Heroes of Horror rules, even if you're not Undead you can still get rather a lot of taint- a Con/Wis of 17 gives you a maximum of the related taint score of 69. 17 is not a hard score to get, not with racial bonuses, magic items, and.. oh, let's say an initial value of 12 or so (and you're probably going to have your Con much higher anyway.) Say you want to keep within a safe value, so you 'only' seek out enough taint to raise your scores to 50. You know any other really easy ways to get your effective casting stat to 50?

[Calanon]

Lets up the anti and just become a Lich >_> (Meh its a thought, doubt your DM will let you do it so eh :smallsigh:)

If your smart and don't walk around screaming "MY PHYLACTERY IS BEING HIDDEN IN THE DUNGEON OF XxX" You should more or less be fine (Also while your at it take the Vecna-Blooded Template for the immunity to scrying, use Aumver's Fractured Phylactery and make 500+ Phylacterys, and keep one on you at all times... in effect it should make all of them unscryable*)

*Note: That is just wishful thinking :smallbiggrin:

[Alleran]

Lich has the level adjustment to deal with, though.

If you can sidestep your way into Walker in the Waste with the arcane character + Tainted Scholar levels, then you could hit the capstone and be a dry lich (and I think you avoid the LA going that way, even if it does take ten levels). Which is like a lich, only better. Plus you get five phylacteries. And I think that's the only way to get multiple phylacteries pre-epic levels (with that epic spell developed by Aumvor in Champions of Ruin).

[faceroll]

Lich has the level adjustment to deal with, though.

If you can sidestep your way into Walker in the Waste with the arcane character + Tainted Scholar levels, then you could hit the capstone and be a dry lich (and I think you avoid the LA going that way, even if it does take ten levels). Which is like a lich, only better. Plus you get five phylacteries. And I think that's the only way to get multiple phylacteries pre-epic levels (with that epic spell developed by Aumvor in Champions of Ruin).

Walker in the Waste doesn't actually have any text about avoiding the Dry Lich level adjustment; you just get the Dry Lich template.

[Alleran]

Walker in the Waste doesn't actually have any text about avoiding the Dry Lich level adjustment; you just get the Dry Lich template.
AFB, so can't check (though I would question the point of the capstone, in that case, since you could just pursue the template outside of the class and free up those levels for something else).

Time the attainment of the capstone for 19th-20th level, though, and it shouldn't make that much difference (or earlier, if you can arrange to get your hands on 9th level casting fast enough).

[faceroll]

AFB, so can't check


"Dry Lich: On reaching 10th level, you learn to apply the secrets of waste preservation to your own body, becoming a dry lich. You must undergo the Sere Rite, overseen by another dry lich, which includes preserving your flesh, removing your organs and storing them in special canopic jars, and imbuing your body with foul magic to make it undying. See the dry lich template, page 155, for more information. As a dry lich, you cannot be permanently killed unless the canopic jars containing your life essence
are destroyed."


(though I would question the point of the capstone, in that case, since you could just pursue the template outside of the class and free up those levels for something else).

Wouldn't be the first time I would question "the point" of WotC's mechanics. RAW's RAW, though.


Time the attainment of the capstone for 19th-20th level, though, and it shouldn't make that much difference (or earlier, if you can arrange to get your hands on 9th level casting fast enough).

Really, just take the capstone at whatever level the campaign's going to be ending at. The +5 LA is kind of killer, imo.

[Calanon]

Lich has the level adjustment to deal with, though.

If you can sidestep your way into Walker in the Waste with the arcane character + Tainted Scholar levels, then you could hit the capstone and be a dry lich (and I think you avoid the LA going that way, even if it does take ten levels). Which is like a lich, only better. Plus you get five phylacteries. And I think that's the only way to get multiple phylacteries pre-epic levels (with that epic spell developed by Aumvor in Champions of Ruin).

I never really cared much for Dry Lich (One time my DM made me play a Dry Lich... in a water campaign...:smalleek:) i was... morbidly depressed T_T

ANYWAY~ create water can easily slaughter a Dry Lich with great ease... (And the 5 lvl adj doesn't make any sense! Multiple Phylacterys =/= greater Challenge rating. otherwise Aumver would be like a CR 80+ at least)

[faceroll]

Hmmm, interesting. Both Create Sand Golem and Create Salt Mummy are supernatural abilities. I think that lets you circumvent the need for materials in creating either one. The Salt Mummy only needs a corpse, and as a standard action, you can turn it into a CR 8 undead, for free.

It looks like you have to pay the 20,000gp for the canopic jars and also have craft wondrous item if you want to take full benefit of the dry lich capstone.

[Alleran]

ANYWAY~ create water can easily slaughter a Dry Lich with great ease...
Avoidable.


Hmmm, interesting. Both Create Sand Golem and Create Salt Mummy are supernatural abilities. I think that lets you circumvent the need for materials in creating either one.
You never need materials with supernatural abilities or spell-likes unless it specifically says so, AFAIK.

[Calanon]

Avoidable.

Make a reflex save to dodge a lake... yeah...

[faceroll]

Make a reflex save to dodge a lake... yeah...

That's not what he said. You're a high level caster. If a little water's a set back, playing a caster is probably too hard for you.

[dextercorvia]

That's not what he said. You're a high level caster. If a little water's a set back, playing a caster is probably too hard for you.

With your permission sir, I would like to sig this.

[faceroll]

With your permission sir, I would like to sig this.

I guess :smallcool:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Make a reflex save to dodge a lake... yeah...

For 2d4 damage... big flippin' deal.

Oh no, your cantrip can do 2d4 damage to me. What ever shall it do? It's not like I can't... oh... deck you, deal 1d6 Con DRAIN and heal the damage back... assuming I don't just cast something like Pillar of Salt or a good ol' fashioned Slay Living...

[Tvtyrant]

For 2d4 damage... big flippin' deal.

Oh no, your cantrip can do 2d4 damage to me. What ever shall it do? It's not like I can't... oh... deck you, deal 1d6 Con DRAIN and heal the damage back...

If you fall in a lake it does immersion damage, so one of his examples does a lot. The create water one is hilarious as an idea though; thousands of commoners swarm you with buckets of water and holy water throwing items.

[faceroll]

For 2d4 damage... big flippin' deal.

Oh no, your cantrip can do 2d4 damage to me. What ever shall it do? It's not like I can't... oh... deck you, deal 1d6 Con DRAIN and heal the damage back... assuming I don't just cast something like Pillar of Salt or a good ol' fashioned Slay Living...

Assuming a flask of holy water contains 1 pint of liquid (pint = pound), then a 10th level cleric casting create water does 320d4 damage to you, no save, no resistance.

Alternatively, default to rules for acid immersion, as holy water does damage to undead and evil outsiders "as acid". In which case, 20d6 damage per round.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you fall in a lake it does immersion damage, so one of his examples does a lot. The create water one is hilarious as an idea though; thousands of commoners swarm you with buckets of water and holy water throwing items.

Only you're not falling into a lake. You're having some water dumped on your head. With a Cantrip.

Also, cite rules for immersion damage for undead and holy water, because I'm not seeing it in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#holyWater).

Create Water is 2 gal/lvl. That's a maximum of 40 gal. That's about the size of a fish tank. Not a lake.

And it's not like Dispel Water isn't on the domain list for the domain you're required to have to get into the class in the first place...

[faceroll]

Also, cite rules for immersion damage for undead and holy water, because I'm not seeing it in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#holyWater).

"Holy water damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost as if it were acid."

"Acid Effects

Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as into a vat of acid), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster’s spittle, counts as a round of exposure.

The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who come close enough to a large body of acid to dunk a creature in it must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. All such characters must make a second save 1 minute later or take another 1d4 points of Constitution damage.

Creatures immune to acid’s caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed. "

[ShneekeyTheLost]

"Holy water damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost as if it were acid."

"Acid Effects

Corrosive acids deals 1d6 points of damage per round of exposure except in the case of total immersion (such as into a vat of acid), which deals 10d6 points of damage per round. An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster’s spittle, counts as a round of exposure.

The fumes from most acids are inhaled poisons. Those who come close enough to a large body of acid to dunk a creature in it must make a DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage. All such characters must make a second save 1 minute later or take another 1d4 points of Constitution damage.

Creatures immune to acid’s caustic properties might still drown in it if they are totally immersed. "

Almost /= is.

Having a cantrip doesn't immerse you in water. It douses you. Since there's no container available, it's gone by the next turn. So even if it did, it doesn't.

Besides, it's not like he doesn't have Dispel Water from the Thirst domain, which is required to get into WotW for the Dry Litch template anyways... although that's a steep price when you don't have to bother with it.

[Eldan]

Almost /= is.

Having a cantrip doesn't immerse you in water. It douses you. Since there's no container available, it's gone by the next turn. So even if it did, it doesn't.
t.

What if hte lich was standing in a fish tank? :smalltongue:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What if hte lich was standing in a fish tank? :smalltongue:

Unless he was Tiny sized or smaller, it wouldn't be complete immersion.