WotC found out they had messed things up and used these? Should we adopt them?

[Raendyn]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/welcome campaign standards 4.0

This is WotC RPGA latest & last campaign in 3.5
The cards from mark of heroes are all legal cards for the Xendrik Expeditions

It is supposed to make the game balanced, easier to play, shorten the gap between the tiers, make the DM's job easier. So says WotC's "army of DM's":smallsigh:

So, i would like to ask:

Why Eberron? Just because It's their latest product?

Shouldn't latest books be considered balanced after all these erratas & mistakes they made with the former books? So why are tome's banned?

Do you consider this campaign balanced? Are all classes playable? Are the abuses fixed in your opinion?

What powerlvl do you think this is?

Would you play under these rules?

Give your general opinion about the rules.


NOTE: If you don't bother read the campaign standards 4.0 pdf. Don't bother answer this post, I am asking for serious, double-checked replies.

Thanks in advance for your replies.:smallwink:

[Starbuck_II]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/welcome campaign standards 4.0

This is WotC RPGA latest & last campaign in 3.5
The cards from mark of heroes are all legal cards for the Xendrik Expeditions

It is supposed to make the game balanced, easier to play, shorten the gap between the tiers, make the DM's job easier. So says WotC's "army of DM's":smallsigh:

I think it is more that everyone is playing same sanctioned rules between events (no houserules between games so one character can be ported to a different DM and little adjustment needed).


So, i would like to ask:

Why Eberron? Just because It's their latest product?

Shouldn't latest books be considered balanced after all these erratas & mistakes they made with the former books? So why are tome's banned?

Do you consider this campaign balanced? Are all classes playable? Are the abuses fixed in your opinion?

What powerlvl do you think this is?

Would you play under these rules?

Give your general opinion about the rules.


NOTE: If you don't bother read the campaign standards 4.0 pdf. Don't bother answer this post, I am asking for serious, double-checked replies.

Thanks in advance for your replies.:smallwink:

Wait, you are complaining about a 5 year old post on the WotC website about 3.5 campaign to promote Ebberon.
A little pedantic.

Yes, Eberron is the new product so they chose it. Why shouldn't that make sense?

I've never played the RPGA games so I can't tell if balanced. They banned Major Alignment books because BoED and BoVD are both arguments in waiting (due to alignment being messed up).

Limiting books is not due to balance but to keep right themes/ownership. You can use any Limited book but must have ownership of it (and bring it with you or photocopy of it)

The factions setup is a way to tie your character to world.


The alternate Class feature setup of declaring which you going to use at 1st is reasonable.

I didn't realize Campaigns don't use Exp for crafting. The adjustment to Artificer would make porting it to Pathfinder easily (the system also has no Exp for crafting).

If you die and can afford raise dead, you have negative level only for that event. So death's punishment isn't long lasting. Pathfinder had same idea (negative level instead of losing a level).


What Tomes are you referring to (what page of document?)?
Edit: Found it, pg 21.

I guess, they didn't want to deal with Truenamer, Shadowcasters, Binders, Swordsages, Warlords, or crusaders.
I can't believe they banned Blessed Book (that makes scribing harder on Wizards)
Magical locations are banned (I liked those)
Nightsticks (balance reasons?)
And the Pierce Magical Concealment feats.

Spells banned: Likely balance reasons if you read list
Polymorph, Shapechange, Wish, Miracle,Wraithstrike make sense.
But wierdly Permanency doesn't exist (so no permanent spells)?

And they banned Hirelings.

Huh, they included lot of errata in the PDF.
Lot of rules to read: I'd have no issue playing such a game, but as WotC is now doing 4th edition, it isn't an option.

[NoldorForce]

Note: What you're citing is three years old. Yes, it's Eberron because that was their latest campaign setting. (Hence Realms material is automatically out.)

That list of houserules, allowances, and restrictions is fairly standard for the RPGA - it's designed to make things accommodating for people who only own the core books and ECS. But anyone who owns more books is kinda told to take a hike, what with all the character options (anything psionic, for one) that had to be unlocked with special game cards. And the faction restrictions. And the ban list that was mostly non-core, except for the Polymorph line. (Recall how WotC put out extensive errata in 2006 excising those spells from almost everything.)

Few abuses were actually fixed. The only valid things hit (IMO) were Persistent Spell, Leadership, Planar Shepherd, Tainted Scholar, and the Polymorph line. I suspect most of the ban list was either knee-jerk reactions (grafts, Complete Champion's Barbarian totems) or things they didn't want to deal with (dragonmarks, devil brands, and cold-based options from Frostburn).

As for the Tomes? Hell if I know. They weren't the last of the 3.5 line by about a year, and the alternate systems they introduced are (excepting Truenaming, which is more hare-brained than the Indiana Pi Bill) no more complicated than others that were explicitly allowed. Hell, incarnum bears no restrictions at all beyond choosing an appropriate faction. Again, it's most likely a knee-jerk reaction.

Would I play under these rules? No. Partly because they aren't well thought out (see above), and...partly because it's the RPGA. It had (and still might have, I haven't checked the 4E stuff) a lot of legal baggage on what you could have, what you couldn't have, what you had to do to get the things in between (mostly getting those special cards during official adventures), and what you had to do to use "patched" systems (leveling, purchasing equipment, making magic items). Consider it to be less D&D 3.5 than Magic: The Gathering: The RPG.

[Dyroth]

I didn't realize Campaigns don't use Exp for crafting. The adjustment to Artificer would make porting it to Pathfinder easily (the system also has no Exp for crafting).

What were the changes for this, and which link was it hidden in? I have been thinking of rolling up an Artificer for my Pathfinder game, and having a copy to take to my DM would be excellent.

[NoldorForce]

What were the changes for this, and which link was it hidden in? I have been thinking of rolling up an Artificer for my Pathfinder game, and having a copy to take to my DM would be excellent.It's in the main rules PDF, pages 6 and 7. In a nutshell:
-Item creation feats allow you to get magic items at two-thirds the cost.
-The artificer craft reserve is worth five times its XP value in GP for purchasing things.
-Retain Essence is worth a paltry 300 GP. :smallsigh:

[Jude_H]

What am I supposed to be looking at?

It's a set of houserules by people who don't min-max for people who don't min-max, basically just asking them not to min-max or bring in obnoxious/out-of-setting materials.

It doesn't change anything that's worth mentioning.
I wouldn't enforce them because it's an obnoxious document to read.
I wouldn't quit a game over them, but I probably wouldn't want to play a game with someone who'd care to enforce them; they seem very anti-beer and possibly anti-pretzel, as well.

[MeeposFire]

Would I play under these rules? No. Partly because they aren't well thought out (see above), and...partly because it's the RPGA. It had (and still might have, I haven't checked the 4E stuff) a lot of legal baggage on what you could have, what you couldn't have, what you had to do to get the things in between (mostly getting those special cards during official adventures), and what you had to do to use "patched" systems (leveling, purchasing equipment, making magic items). Consider it to be less D&D 3.5 than Magic: The Gathering: The RPG.

4e RPGA still has restrictions but not as many. Most of the material is legal whether it is from Eberron or the realms etc (it is set in FR by the way this time). Some of the restrictions include no dragon mark feats, no Dark Sun themes (other themes are fine), and a few other random restrictions. I think a large part of that is 4e's decision to make everything "core" and be more inclusive in what you are allowed to use.