Slaymate in a Bag of Holding

[ExtravagantEvil]

Okay guys, like the title says it seems as if I'm entering an interesting discussion for a campaign I'll end up running soon. This is obviously an optimization question, and a rules question.

The question stands whether a Slaymate's Necromancy Metamagic reductions could still work when inside a bag of holding, and extend out of the bag of holding as a result.

The party issue at hand is that it is mild conflict with 2 characters.
One is a Paladin (Homebrewed to decency), and the other's a Dread Necromancer of the CN variety.
The player of the DN will try to make a Slaymate and wants to hide it so the Paladin does not get annoyed and irked by warping the soul of a child and converting it's corpse into a necromantic toy.
To cover up this abomination against nature and the cycle of life he thinks that it could be placed in the bag of holding and the effect would still apply.

So would the Slaymates Pale Aura (10ft radius) that causes the Metamagic Reducer work inside the bag of holding? My initial thought is no since it is in an extradimensional space. Inside of a bag.

I just want to get the PLaygrounds worthy thought on the issue

Thank You
--- ExtravagantEvil

[faceroll]

It doesn't work. Aura require LoE. It's in a bag in another dimension. There's no LoE.

[Vemynal]

Have him use a hat of disguise and make a disguise check to dress the Slaymate as a living child. Tell the paladin that the child is a war orphan and has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that has manifested as an inability to speak and rigid and odd behavior patterns

[Seth62]

there is an item in ghost walk. An uber cheap mask u can use it is only bypassed by trueseeing

[Calanon]

Have him use a hat of disguise and make a disguise check to dress the Slaymate as a living child. Tell the paladin that the child is a war orphan and has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that has manifested as an inability to speak and rigid and odd behavior patterns

This, the paladin will suspect NOTHING :smallbiggrin:
have the Slaymate eat food every now and again to keep up the disguise as a LIVING child

If its for Coning Paladins, I'm all for it :smallwink:

[Inferno]

You could just use a mundane bag...one of your zombies could even carry it for you (although would have to follow very closely).

[Safety Sword]

This (http://www.babybjorn.com/us/products/baby-carriers/baby-carrier-active/active/) may be helpful
:smallbiggrin:

[Togath]

Don't forget that slaymates are intelligent undead, so they could in theory use magic items themselves to disguise themselves, also, if your dm allows it, you could in theory make your slaymate out of a corpse from the loosely defined "child" age category, and make it out of the corpse of a 14 year old equivalent being, and then take the feat “master”(I think that was what is it called, it’s basically the opposite of the apprentice feat) from dmg2 to have it help you in combat as well as provide a buff.

[aazru]

Haunt Shift it into something.

[koscum]

Have him use a hat of disguise and make a disguise check to dress the Slaymate as a living child. Tell the paladin that the child is a war orphan and has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that has manifested as an inability to speak and rigid and odd behavior patterns

This and perfume. Lots and lots of perfume. Preferably something with an aroma of "I'm a living child, not a corpse. Yeah, definitively not a reanimated corpse", although it'll stop working after a while. Better get a permanent Dead End (MIC, 59) or something else that blocks SCENT!

[Vemynal]

This is why you choose Gentle Repose as one of your spells lol

That or just tell the nosy paladin, "When was the last time *you* bathed huh?"

[Rannath]

Quick question:
Does it have to be a child of a civilized race? (Could it be for instance a goblin child? Would the paladin object to that?)

[Pechvarry]

Better get some alignment concealing, too. Remember that Paladin who can detect Lawful Evil zombie-children at will?

Getting to be a costly venture.

[CTrees]

Grig child turned into a slaymate, hidden under your (lead-lined*) hat?

*even if it doesn't work by RAW, I like the logic of lead blocking Detect Evil, and there's a fair chance a random DM would, too, given the "feel" of the solution.

[aazru]

Just tell it is a gnome zombie. :smallamused: It is okay if it is a gnome. :smallbiggrin:

[ZombiePunch]

If you have an undead posse hanging around add a fat guy.
Cut him open and stuff the slaymate inside drug mule sytle.
Sew him up and now smell, evil aura, and such are all easily explained without a hitch.
Unless the Pally isn't cool with undead in general but I guess that's another problem altogether. I mean a fat adult undead is only slightly less of an abomination of nature and the cycle of life.

[Fouredged Sword]

Stick the slaymate right next to you on your PAO'd reaminated great wyrm gold dragon zombie. (POA a great wyrm sized pile of dead bodies into a great wyrm gold dragon (scroll costs 3000gp, and the onix costs 1000 something gp and the desicrate scroll to let you riase that amount of HD is cheap)

Tell the paladin to go sit in the corner with the other tier 4s.

[aazru]

Plan "The One Ring":
1. Get Ring of Desecrate(greater).
2. Haunt Shift Slaymate into it.
3. Call it "My Precioussss!"

Plan "Lawful Stupid":
1. Prepare stage, script and special effects.
2. Make a show for the Paladin where Slaymate tells you its heartbreaking back story(a lot of details (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Little_Pamela)!), mistakes you for her father and starts following you around. Bonus points it starts calling Paladin: "Big bvoder" (insert cutest and most innocent look you can get out of that unliving abomination)
3. Laugh maniacally(but discreetly) when your Pally takes on a quest to avenge and protect that child. At the very least he will leave you alone.

Plan "Squick":
1. Gleefully travel with that Slaymate on display. Like nothing changed or is wrong in that.
2. Any questions about that undead child answer: "Lichloved."
3. Surprise! You are the only one who came for the next session.

[~Nye~]

Have him use a hat of disguise and make a disguise check to dress the Slaymate as a living child. Tell the paladin that the child is a war orphan and has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that has manifested as an inability to speak and rigid and odd behavior patterns

Win. :smalltongue:

[Calanon]

Plan "Lawful Stupid":
1. Prepare stage, script and special effects.
2. Make a show for the Paladin where Slaymate tells you its heartbreaking back story(a lot of details (http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Little_Pamela)!), mistakes you for her father and starts following you around. Bonus points it starts calling Paladin: "Big bvoder" (insert cutest and most innocent look you can get out of that unliving abomination)
3. Laugh maniacally(but discreetly) when your Pally takes on a quest to avenge and protect that child. At the very least he will leave you alone.

...Omg... than you have a good aligned Paladin protecting your Evil undead slave... THAT IS JUSTICE! (Not lawful good Justice where good triumphs over evil... I mean Lawful Evil Justice were good is easily bribed to look the other way!)

[Loki_42]

Okay, just chiming in that I'm the player of the paladin, using T.G. Oskar's retool. At first, I'm going to be wary of undead in general, but all-in-all I'm going to be cool with his zombie hoards, because the majority of them are going to be our enemies. I'm trying not to be Lawful Stupid or anything, but it's hard to be chill with a zombie child. It's not the perversion of the natural order of life and death, my guy can handle that, it's more the corruption of innocence that comes with undeadifying children. If I could find a way to justify being cool with it, I'd love too, but I'm having trouble with that. Also, we're fourth level, OP left that out. Honestly, I'm not sure the DN necessarily thinks he needs a slaymate, but a large part of his schtick is fell x stacking, and he needs all the metamagic reducers he can get. Strangely enough, I'm the biggest optimizer in the group and recommended the slaymate to the guy before thinking about my guys feelings about it.

[Alleine]

Is it a big deal if you just find the slaymate as opposed to trying to make it yourself? I'd ask the DM if you could go on a little side quest to pick it up.

It's one thing to murder and reanimate a child. It's entirely another to find said undead child and take it under your wing.

[Vemynal]

Loki - What if the undead child was the PC's own child who he brought back as an undead because he couldn't bare to be without his son/daughter?

Or if he had spoken to a cleric and had this random child (not his child) spoken to using "Speak with the dead". Had asked this child if he wanted to be brought back for the purpose of getting vengeance on those who killed him?

Remember, the child's soul is safe with w/e he got sent. Its his body that would be getting the revenge. The child's soul is being left alone in all of this.



I find if you think hard enough, you can RP most problems away.

[Loki_42]

Is it a big deal if you just find the slaymate as opposed to trying to make it yourself? I'd ask the DM if you could go on a little side quest to pick it up.

It's one thing to murder and reanimate a child. It's entirely another to find said undead child and take it under your wing.


Loki - What if the undead child was the PC's own child who he brought back as an undead because he couldn't bare to be without his son/daughter?

Or if he had spoken to a cleric and had this random child (not his child) spoken to using "Speak with the dead". Had asked this child if he wanted to be brought back for the purpose of getting vengeance on those who killed him?

Remember, the child's soul is safe with w/e he got sent. Its his body that would be getting the revenge. The child's soul is being left alone in all of this.



I find if you think hard enough, you can RP most problems away.

All of these could be attractive. I especially think that the DN player might enjoy the first of Vemynal's suggestions, as he wanted to rp somebody with depression and a severely warped view on life and death, and nothing spells all that like a dead child that you keep around even though it came back horribly wrong.

[Vemynal]

Happy to help! The Dread Necromancer is my favorite class =)

I love my zombie minions ^_^

You also might like these;
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732
For figuring out how to dump as much as you can onto your charisma stat

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0
Fear Handbook

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook
Necromancers Handbook

http://community.wizards.com/bleak_academy/wiki/Dread_Necromancer%27s_Handbook
Dread Necromancers Handbook

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70936
Som forum advice on Dread Necros (some good, some bad. use your judgement)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29570
Complete Lich guide if you go that route



Remember!
1) The capstone does *not* make you a Lich! As much as it says it does, Wizards of the Coast has clarified that it in fact does not! (however, homebrewing this is not out of the picture since its one of the weakest full casters in the game)
2) If you take the Necropolitan template you only get d12 hit dice for the hit dice you already have.
Even though you are undead, you are taking levels in a class. Not in a undead class/race savage species type deal. You will get d4 hit dice without a constitution buff!
3) due in part to #2, ask you dm for a commonly homebrewed feat (its actually in pathfinder) that gives your charisma modifier to your HP total.
4) you only get the special # of HD of undead per your Dread Necro level, not per your ECL. So if you prestige out of the class your handicapping how much undead you can make. Just keep that in mind when weighing if you want to leave the class or not.

[Callista]

Quick question:
Does it have to be a child of a civilized race? (Could it be for instance a goblin child? Would the paladin object to that?)Yes. In most games, Good-aligned characters will protect children of all species, even the usually-evil ones.

Question here: Is creating the Slaymate going to involve trapping a soul, etc.? If so, you might want to ask yourself whether it is in character for your CN PC who, though he's a free spirit, probably doesn't believe in twisting the souls of children. A souped-up mindless undead might be a better choice. Check out Libris Mortis for possibilities. There are some pretty cool options for skeletons, IIRC.

You're going to have to watch out for the undead's Evil aura, whatever you do--they all have the Evil aura, even the mindless ones--and you're going to get caught in the Detect radius the next time the paladin's keeping the radar up looking for ambushers.

But... honestly, I don't think your PC should be hiding something as big as this, because eventually the pally will find out, and it could be at the worst possible time. He might assume your PC is a traitor--quite a reasonable assumption to make in some situations. And that'll end in PvP.

I think your best bet is to have your PC talk to the paladin, explain that you've made this undead and you are going to keep it under control, that you'll use it as a tool to [Complete Mission X], that you are not torturing any souls, and that you'll put the body to rest when you're done with it. Might even be able to reassure him by sticking something like a contingency'd healing spell on the creature set to go off if it goes too far from you.

You'll have better luck with a paladin of, say, St. Cuthbert or Wee Jas, than with one of Pelor or similar.

Give the PC a bottom line something like, "You might not like my methods, but we're on the same team, protecting innocent people from [Enemy]." Even if your CN character is in it for material gain, you should be able to find a way to cooperate. Think of it from your character's perspective: You think the undead are useful, but you're pretty sure your buddy's not going to like it; so you have to make him see that this can help him fulfill his goals too.

Re. paladins and the undead: I think the big issue here is going to be whether the soul is being touched by the evil. The body of a child is going to be outright creepy; but if the kid is off in the celestial planes, then that's much less of an issue. Creepy isn't the same as evil. There are things you'll agree with, things you won't like but will agree to tolerate, and things you'll hate and have to smite. Try to work it so the undead go in the second category.