New Evocation Spells (3.5, PEACH)

[NeoSeraphi]

Several things are encouraging me to do this.

1) Conjuration rules spells with the [acid] descriptor. Evocation needs one or two of those to really be the blasting school.

2) At some point, evocation needs to stop getting ganked by splatbook conjuration. Seriously.

3) Evocation spells don't do enough damage at all. They deal poorly scaled, badly-capped AOE damage with the design intent that dealing low damage to multiple targets makes up for not really dealing enough damage to warrant expending a 3rd-5th level spell slot to any one of those targets.

Meanwhile, spells like orb of acid outpace evocation in single-target, spells like disintegrate make evocation's damage seem irrelevant, and while meteor swarm is dealing a small pittance to the CR 20s, wail of the banshee is actually tearing a massive hole through the army that's surrounded you.

So yeah. Evocation needs to be redesigned with some epic* spells.

* Epic as in Haseo, the Terror of Death epic, not epic as in consuming a 10th level spell slot epic.

Note: These spells are not intended to give the evocation school more 'versatility' or in some way add to its appeal. It's supposed to fix its existing role of dealing damage and make it more viable.

With that in mind, I'm going to write a few here. (Note that I have almost no experience homebrewing spells and actually rather dislike doing it, so please bear with me if it takes me a while to actually make enough of them to make a difference)

Acidic Blast
Evocation [Acid]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Warmage 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A ferocious blast from the caster corrodes the air and all life within the area begins to decay. Creatures in the area of effect take 1d8/level acid damage (max 15d8), but are allowed a Reflex saving throw for half damage. Any creature who fails its Reflex save is also nauseated for one round (no save, but creatures that are immune to poison are immune to this secondary effect)


Electric Hellsphere
Evocation [electricity]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 4, Warmage 4, Storm 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the caster finishes his chant, an enormous amount of electricity erupts from the center of the spell, shocking and stopping the enemy in their tracks. All creatures within the area of effect take 1d8/level electricity damage (max 20d8, Reflex half) and any creatures who fail their Reflex save are paralyzed for 1 round (no save, but any creature who is immune to electricity is immune to this secondary effect, even if this spell deals some other kind of damage such as through the Energy Substitution feat).


Inferno
Evocation [Fire]
Sorc/Wiz 9, Warmage 9, Destruction 9
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft +25/level)
Area: 100 ft burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is the ultimate force of fire power. All creatures within the area of effect take 5 points of fire damage and 5 points of untyped energy damage per caster level. A successful Reflex save halves this damage. This spell completely ignores the evasion and improved evasion abilities (though a creature with one of these abilities who succeeds his Reflex save would still only take half damage)

Additionally, any creature that falls to 0 hit points is instantly reduced to ashes, as if it was slain by a disintegrate spell.



Frozen Aether
Evocation [Cold]
Sorc/Wiz 3, Warmage 3
Components: V, S
Area: 60-ft Emanation, centered on the caster
Duration: 1 rd/lv
Save: Reflex half
SR: Yes, See text

With a power unlike any other, the caster blasts forth a chilling breeze that freezes the air and ground. All creatures in the emanation take 1d8/level cold damage (max 15d8) with a Reflex saving throw for half damage. Additionally, for the duration of the spell, the emanated area becomes slick with ice. All creatures who took damage must immediately make a second Reflex save or fall prone, and any creature who attempts to move across the ice must move half speed and attempt a DC 10 Balance check (as per the grease spell with the same consequences for failure). A creature with spell resistance does not ignore the penalties for walking across the ice. The caster is not immune to slipping and falling on the ice, though the squares he or she occupied when the spell was cast are not affected.


Repelling Shout
Evocation [Sonic]
Sorc/Wiz 4, Warmage 4
Components: V
Area: 60 ft Emanation, centered on the caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fortitude Partial
SR: Yes

With a deep breath, the caster bellows forth a draconic roar, followed by a thundering "BACK OFF!"

This spell immediately deals 1d6/level sonic damage (max 20d6) and initiates a Bull Rush with each affected target. The caster uses his caster level as his Base Attack Bonus, his primary casting modifier as his Strength modifier, and is treated as one Size category larger than he is per four caster levels (Maximum of Colossal) A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and prevents the Bull Rush attempt.

If a creature is grappling the caster and the caster uses this spell, the creature must make a second Fortitude save regardless of whether it failed the first one or not (DC equal to this spell's DC). If it fails that save, the creature is knocked back 40 feet and stunned for one round. (This movement replaces whatever movement it would have been forced back from the Bull Rush attempt)

Repelling shout cannot penetrate a silence spell.



Superior Force Missiles
Evocation [Force]
Sorc/Wiz 6, Warmage 6
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
SR: Yes

This spell functions exactly the same as magic missile, except you may produce up to ten missiles (at CL 19), and each missile does 3d6+3 force damage.

More to come!

[Fiery Diamond]

I like what I see, sorta. I completely agree with your premise. Evocation spells are completely outmatched by splatbook Conjuration, and evocation spells are rather weak anyway. I think that the core evocation spells should be modified as part of this, too, rather than just adding new spells, since all the new spells will be much stronger than the original ones.

The "sorta" comes in with the first spell. Because... well, acid is the most potent energy type, since things are generally not immune to it. Furthermore, cones are usually 15/30/60 feet. Compare/Contrast:

Acidic Blast: Level 2, 1d8/lvl acid (max 20d8), 100+10ft/lvl cone (min 130ft cone at lvl 3, 300ft at lvl 20), additional secondary effect

Cone of Cold: Level 5, 1d6/lvl cold (max 15d6), 60ft cone (min 60ft, max 60ft), no additional effects

Yeah, I know that cone of cold is one of the weakest evocation spells in the book, but I'm trying to make a point on just how vast a difference there is. To be honest, I think that Acidic Blast as a 2nd level spell is more powerful than Electric Hellsphere as a 4th level spell by a fairly wide margin.

[NeoSeraphi]

I like what I see, sorta. I completely agree with your premise. Evocation spells are completely outmatched by splatbook Conjuration, and evocation spells are rather weak anyway. I think that the core evocation spells should be modified as part of this, too, rather than just adding new spells, since all the new spells will be much stronger than the original ones.

The "sorta" comes in with the first spell. Because... well, acid is the most potent energy type, since things are generally not immune to it. Furthermore, cones are usually 15/30/60 feet. Compare/Contrast:

Acidic Blast: Level 2, 1d8/lvl acid (max 20d8), 100+10ft/lvl cone (min 130ft cone at lvl 3, 300ft at lvl 20), additional secondary effect

Cone of Cold: Level 5, 1d6/lvl cold (max 15d6), 60ft cone (min 60ft, max 60ft), no additional effects

Yeah, I know that cone of cold is one of the weakest evocation spells in the book, but I'm trying to make a point on just how vast a difference there is. To be honest, I think that Acidic Blast as a 2nd level spell is more powerful than Electric Hellsphere as a 4th level spell by a fairly wide margin.

Oh, sorry, my fault. It's a 15 foot cone, but can be centered from anywhere Medium range away...though I guess you're right. Cones generally only emanate from the caster.

I'll change the range to just 15 ft.

[Fiery Diamond]

Oh, sorry, my fault. It's a 15 foot cone, but can be centered from anywhere Medium range away...though I guess you're right. Cones generally only emanate from the caster.

I'll change the range to just 15 ft.

Much more sensible.:smallbiggrin:

[NeoSeraphi]

Thank you! Do you have any of your own suggestions/spells you'd like to make? I hope to have about 20 new spells for evocation by the time this thread is done.

[Gnorman]

I definitely support the addition of status effects, as evocation should really do more than just cause fistfuls of damage. The damage evocation can cause has never really struck me as the main problem - properly utilized, they can do quite a bit of damage. It's just that damage doesn't really do anything for you until you get that last itty-bitty little hit point.

So, more status effects please! I want to see fire spells that can wither limbs into useless claws covered in melted flesh, cold spells that freeze people solid, electrical spells that reduce them to a quivering wreck, acid spells that cause horrific lung scarring and suffocation, sonic spells that cause disorientation and hilarious balance problems. Looks like you've got three of those already.

[lightningcat]

The change that I've made to Cone of Cold is just changing the damage to 1d8+1/level. None of my players have complained or thought it overpowered.
Although I do like the idea of Evocation spells doing status effects.

I also put several of the splatbook Conjuration spells into Evocation where they belong. I think you know which ones I speak of.

[NeoSeraphi]

The change that I've made to Cone of Cold is just changing the damage to 1d8+1/level. None of my players have complained or thought it overpowered.
Although I do like the idea of Evocation spells doing status effects.

I also put several of the splatbook Conjuration spells into Evocation where they belong. I think you know which ones I speak of.

That's a good idea. So 15d8+15 is a very good amount for cone of cold.

[Set]

Rather than attempt to fight with conjuration over acid, it might be useful to take advantage of evocation's access to sonic and force spells.

Some random evocation spell ideas I had lying around;

Spells inspired by the magic used by Zeddicus in the Legend of the Seeker TV show;

Unseen Ram
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

An invisible wave of force projects from your hand, striking a single target with crushing force. Instead of rolling an attack roll, you make a modified CMB check against the CMD of the target, calculated as if your BAB was equal to your caster level, and replacing the Strength modifier with that of your primary spellcasting attribute (Intelligence for wizards, Charisma for sorcerers). If this check is successful, the target takes 1d6 nonlethal bludgeoning damage, +1 hit point per caster level (maximum 1d6+10), and is subject to both a bull rush and a trip maneuver. Any other modifiers for this special CMB check, such as size, use your normal attributes, and these maneuvers do not provoke an attack of opportunity (although casting the spell provokes normally, if anyone threatens you during spellcasting). You make only a single CMB check, calculating the results of both the bull rush and the trip on this single check, and for the purposes of the bull rush, the unseen ram is assumed to follow the target as far as the maximum distance of the spells range.


Unseen Stampede
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Range 20 ft.
Area cone-shaped burst

This spell functions like unseen ram, except that it affects anyone in the area, and gains the size modifier as if it were a gargantuan creature.


Firebolt
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a drop of alchemist’s fire, one flask is good for 60 castings)
Range 30 ft.
Area 30-ft. line.
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes

You generate a line of fire five feet wide that deals 1d6 fire damage plus an additional 1d6 fire damage for every 2 caster levels over first (maximum 5d6 at 9th) to each creature within the area. The line of fire begins at your fingertips.

If the initial saving throw is failed, and the target takes damage from this effect, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of fire damage on the following round. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire. This additional damage only occurs in the following round and does not recur.


Fireblast
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a tindertwig)
Range close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)
Area 10-ft. radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes

You generate an explosion of fire in the target area that deals 2d6 fire damage plus an additional 1d6 fire damage for every two caster levels over third (maximum 5d6 at 9th level). Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

In all respects other than range, area of effect and damage, a fireblast acts like a fireball, and can detonate prematurely if the spell effect strikes a target before reaching its specified detonation point.

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Evocation version of chill touch;

ICY GRASP
School evocation [cold]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets creature or creatures touched (up to one / level)
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; see text; Spell Resistance yes

A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, inflicts 1d6 cold damage. The touched creature also takes 1 points of Dexterity damage unless it makes a successful saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

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Based on offensive/defensive applications of floating disk;

JOURNEYMAN’S DISK
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a drop of mercury and a cold iron worth 1 gp)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 5-ft.-diameter disk of force
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

This spell functions like floating disk, but you can sit or stand atop your own disk, and move it through silent command as a move action up to 30 ft., or as a double-move action, up to 60 ft. If you would normally be able to take a 5 ft. step, you can reposition yourself while ‘mounted’ on a journeyman’s disk similarly, and you can take a Run action normally, although riding a journeyman’s diisk is not significantly less tiring than running normally, and the detrimental effects of a hustle, charge or run action will be felt normally. While you stand atop your disk, a magnetic force holds you in place so that you receive a +4 circumstance bonus to your CMD to avoid attempts to bull rush or reposition you off of the disk (or against similar effects that would dismount you). The disk otherwise resembles a slightly larger floating disk, and carries the usual 100 pounds of weight per caster level. The disk remains 3 ft. above any solid or liquid surface, and leaves a faint trail, as a loaded disk generates faint pressure on the surface beneath it (equal to one tenth the weight carried), and may trigger some traps, and leave notable depressions in tall grass, deep snow or muddy ground, although the quality of the surface or terrain beneath it in no way hinders its movement. Survival checks to track someone riding such a disk have a +4 DC penalty. If the surface drops away beneath a journeyman’s disk, the disk floats down gently, as if under the effects of feather fall, and the disk similarly drifts gently to the ground at the end of the spells duration. Only you can control the journeyman’s disk in this fashion (although any person or item atop it benefits from the quasi-magnetic attraction), and if you are not atop it, it moves as a normal floating disk.


BATTLEMAGE’S DISK
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a drop of mercury), F (a cold iron buckler)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 5-ft.-diameter disk of force
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

This spell creates a disk of force, similar to floating disk, but this disk is angled vertically, and provides the benefits of improved cover to a medium or small sized caster (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus to reflex saves, improved evasion). The disk is transparent, and provides no benefit to stealth checks, and its defense is limited by its inability to be in two places at once. A readied action can be used to strike the caster while the disk is defending against an attack by a flanking opponent, and the caster will not receive the benefits of improved cover. The disks cover is also forfeited when the spellcaster himself takes an offensive action, although he still gains the benefit of standard cover (+4 AC, +2 reflex saves) against attacks that are delayed to strike concurrently with his own attack.

Finally, the disk can itself be used as a weapon, lashing out instantly to strike a single target within close range, inflicting damage, and also initiating a combat maneuver to bull rush the target. Make a single roll, with both your BAB and CMB treated as equal to your caster level plus your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or your Charisma modifier (if a Sorcerer). If this roll meets or exceeds the targets Armor Class, it takes 1d8 bludgeoning force damage + 1 hit point / level (max +20). If the roll meets or exceeds the targets CMD, it also suffers the effects of a bull rush, and the disk will continue the movement out to its maximum range, if possible. This disk immediately returns to defensive stance after making this attack, but an attacker who has delayed or readied their action can seize the opportunity to attack you while the disk is ‘away,’ and you gain no cover benefits in this case.

.

Joke spells (although they could be renamed to be more serious);

Burning Lands (or Hotfoot)
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a small chunk of magma)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft. / 2 levels)
Effect flames in a 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 round / level
Saving Throw none; see text; Spell Resistance yes

One of a pair of sisters, Shindri Cassoni chose to craft a spell that would not just produce a damaging (and spectacular) visible energy effect, but also manipulate the movement of foes within the target area, by punishing them for moving from their place while the spell remained in effect.

The target area is swept in faint ruddy flames that crawl along the ground and produce a sensation of warmth, but do not inflict any damage to targets that remain stationary. Any target that moves out of a square that is awash in these flames finds that they wrap around his body in ever-increasing layers of many-colored fire, growing slightly brighter and warmer, the more he moves, until he is lashed by 1d4 points of fire damage for each square vacated. These instances of damage occur when movement ends, as a single attack, and if the target succeeds in their initial spell resistance, no damage is suffered, and the creature can move freely through the affected area with no further rolls required and no risk of damage.


Shocking Grass (Lightning Field)
School evocation [electricity]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a handful of iron flakes and quartz shards)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft. / 2 levels)
Effect electrical discharge in a 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 round
Saving Throw none; see text; Spell Resistance yes

Karoli Cassoni attempted to duplicate her sister’s entry, using electrical forces instead of fire, but chose to influence the movement of those in the target area of her spell by encouraging them to flee the area, rather than remain standing in place.

The ground in the target area builds up a crackling charge of electrical energy, and wavering tendrils of electricity spark upwards, somewhat resembling a dancing field of blue-white grass. On the caster’s action in the round after the spell is cast, the charge explosively releases, and anyone remaining in the affected area suffers electrical damage based on their position. Anyone standing within an affected square suffers 1d6 points of electrical damage as the charge erupts towards the sky, and for each additional adjacent square that is also affected, suffers an additional point of electrical damage. For a larger creature, who may occupy more than one square, the creature suffers 1d6 points of damage for each affected square occupied, and 1 pt. of additional damage for each affected square adjacent to those squares, but does not suffer the additional ‘adjacent’ damage for any squares from which they have already suffered the larger damage effect. A successful spell resistance roll negates all damage.

The electrical discharge travels from the ground upwards, and a target within 30 ft. of the ground may also suffer the discharge, although such a target will only suffer the damage for any square(s) that the target is directly over, and not any additional damage from adjacent squares.

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Evocations made ages ago for submission to Relics & Rituals 2;

Dancing Forces.
Damaging energies mimic harmless spells.

Evocation [Fire, Electricity, Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target, Effect or Area: One ranged shocking grasp or up to four magic missile attacks
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: None (either use)
Spell Resistance: Yes (either use)

Description
The elven sorceress Tenagra was always enthralled by spells that had multiple options, such as flame arrow, freezing sphere or the various summon monster spells. She prized spells that exhibited versatility over specific spells that simply did one thing well. So she would never have been content to simply learn dancing lights, magic missile and shocking grasp individually, she had to compile them into a single spell that better suited her love of unnecessary complexity.

Spell Effect
Depending on the components selected during casting, this spell produces either up to four dancing fires that resemble lanterns or torches (and cast that amount of light), or up to four glowing spheres of light (which look like will-o’-wisps), or one faintly glowing humanoid shape. The dancing forces must remain within a 10-ft.-radius area in relation to each other, but otherwise move at the casters will; forward or back, up or down, straight or turning corners, etc. The forces can move up to 100 ft. / round, but it winks out if it leaves close range of the caster.

The caster forms one dancing flame or glowing sphere / two caster levels, and can make the humanoid form only after reaching 5th level.

Unlike the harmless dancing lights from which the dancing forces spell was created, the caster has a small arsenal of options available, depending on casting particulars.

Any of the three options can be of glowing force, flickering flame or crackling electricity, depending on the material used in casting. The exact option, flame or force, humanoid or dancing globes, need not be chosen until the moment of casting, but all manifestations must take the same form and be of the same energy type.

The flickering torch-flames or crackling balls of light act as the commensurate dancing lights constructs, until ordered to strike, at which point the caster may designate one or all of them, in any round of the spells duration, to arc towards a foe within close range as a magic missile striking unerringly for 1d4+1 points of Fire, Force or Electrical damage, depending on their composition. They suffer all of the restrictions of a magic missile spell at that time, all targets having to be visible to the caster and within a 15-ft. radius of each other, etc. Anywhere from one to all four of the spheres or torch-lights can sent to strike in a round, or they can be spread out and used one by one throughout the spells duration. Any light that moves to the attack can only attack once, winking out as it strikes.

The glowing humanoid form similarly can be composed also of either dim fires, sparkling electrical currents or a weak unseen servant-like force, having no substance or effect until similarly ordered to strike, at which point it moves to make a ranged touch attack on a single target within close range and discharges a blast of Fire, Force or Electricity (as per its composition) doing 1d8 damage plus 1 hit point / caster level (maximum of 1d8+20). If the construct misses this touch, it remains intact and can try to strike again in the following round until it either makes contact or the spell expires and it is lost. As with a missile, once it discharges its single attack, it dissipates and is gone.

Both the humanoid figure and the glowing lights are harmless and ephemeral until they strike and discharge their energies, making them immune to pre-emptive attacks other than dispel magic.

Foci: Depending on the casting; four coals soaked in oil (for Fire missiles), four clear glass marbles (for Force missiles) or four small copper spheres (for Electrical missiles), one small piece of copper-wire bent into the stick figure approximation of a man (for an Electrical humanoid), a stick figure of blown glass (for the Force humanoid) or a tiny manikin fashioned of twined wicks soaked in sulfur (for a Fire humanoid).


Fiery Fan.
Creates a two-dimensional cone of magical flame.

Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target, Effect or Area: Cone (see text)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

Description
In exile from the closed elven lands of Uria, cast forth for forbidden magical researches, the witch Sammae is said to have tutored a dozen mages in similarly ‘unwise’ arts. One of her students, a Rus sorcerer known as Hosni, crafted this spell, and for a time referred to it as ‘Sammae’s Fiery Fan’ in honor of his teacher. She put an end to that notion, stating that having one spell bearing her name was more than enough damage for this lifetime.

Spell Effect
A sheet of searing flame shoots from the casters spread fingertips. Her hands must be held so as to send forth a fan-like sheet of flames, about as thick as her thumb. Any creature in the area of effect takes 1d4 points of fire damage for every odd caster level (maximum 5d4 at 9th level). Flammable materials such as cloth, paper, parchment and thin wood burn if the flames touch them. A character can extinguish burning items as a full-round action. With the exception of a single hand to ‘thin out’ the flattened cone of fire, causing both lowered damage and an extended range, this spell is identical to the lower level burning hands spell.

Material Components: A sprinkling of Alchemist’s Fire (one flask is good for about 10 castings).


Riptide.
Generates a tide-like wave of force.

Evocation [Force]
Level: Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Target, Effect or Area: Cone (up to one target / caster level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Description
The forsaken elves are not known for their creative impulses, but this spell was fashioned by one of their seafaring mages, a privateer and sea witch by the name of El-Edrell. He would use its magic to repel hostile boarders (or passengers who had overstayed their welcome, it is rumored) by washing them off of their feet and sweeping them overboard.

Spell Effect
When this spell is invoked, it creates a wave of blue-green force that sweeps all in the affected area from their feet. The effect is treated as a Trip attempt on each affected target, with no roll required of the caster. Each target rolls to retain their footing, making resistance checks against Strength or Dexterity, whichever is better, against the DC of the spell (not the casters Strength score). The tide is treated as a Medium-sized creature for purposes of modifiers to this roll, and a target with 4 or more legs, or otherwise superior stability over the human form (such as an ooze) gains a +4 stability modifier to this check.

Subjects affected by this spell do not gain an attack of opportunity to trip the caster if they succeed in retaining their footing, although the spellcasting itself may provoke a standard attack of opportunity normally.

Arcane Material Components: A pint of seawater that is poured out in the direction of the spells area of effect.


Thunder Touch.
Electrifies the casters hand for a short time.

Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target, Effect or Area: Creature of creatures touched (up to one / level)
Duration: Discharge (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Description
Some claim that a lifeless volcanic mountain or deep crevasse now stands where there was once a grand kingdom, hinting that Sumara or Non may have been the mythic homeland of the mysterious Rus. Others claim that no such place ever existed, that these halfling-like tinkers have always traveled from land to land in their painted wagons, shiftless nomads subsisting through a combination of carnival-like entertainments and petty larceny and confidence games. The truth is possibly lost, as they maintain no history, nor do they seem particularly interested in the truth of this, or some say, any other, matter. While almost every member of their wandering folk seems to be able to call upon the magic of their blood, a few go on to become powerful sorcerers and wizards, trained in their mysterious ‘invisible college,’ which some claim is as rootless and nomadic as the rest of their kind. This spell combines their love of artifice with powerful evocation. Others maintain that this spell was brought to Ghelspad with the iron-gauntleted Charduni, and that the Rus merely claim to have invented it, as they claim so many things.

Spell Effect
Once this spell is cast, the touch of the casters metal-clad hand imparts a devastating electrical jolt, equaling the lower level shocking grasp enchantment in effect (1d8 damage +1 point / caster level, maximum effect 1d8+20). Unlike the traditional shocking grasp, this effect can be discharged multiple times, up to one time / level, using a touch attack action each time. When delivering the touch attack, the caster receives a +3 attack bonus if the target is wearing metal armor (or is made of metal or is carrying a significant amount of metal, etc.). The iron gauntlet spell focus must be worn until every electrical touch is delivered. If any remain unused when the gauntlet is removed, any remaining charges are lost. Also unlike the traditional shocking grasp enchantment, which is not always obvious, the gauntlet focus crackles and sparks ominously while it retains even a single charge. Until this spell is discharged in full, and / or the gauntlet removed, the caster cannot cast any spell with a Somatic component, nor can he wield weapons in the affected hand.

Focus: A specially crafted ‘gauntlet’ of iron rings and plate segments connected by fine copper wire. A skilled metalworker will charge 100 gp. for such fine handiwork.

[NeoSeraphi]

Argh..the Pathfinder language in my 3.5 thread...it burns...

CMD...CMB...what? Well, whatever, it looks like some kind of bull rush and trip check....so that's okay, I guess, though it should really be Overrun, if it's a stampede and it's attempting to knock someone prone. (My personal opinion)

Icy grasp looks decent. I don't know how I feel about non-necromancy spells dealing ability damage, but it's not that much, so I guess it's fine. (Still, ability damage at level 1 is pretty unprecedented)

You've got some interesting and varied low-level spells, and the battlemage's disk spell, despite the confusing Pathfinder language, is a really good defensive ability.

Thanks for your help, Set!

[Blisstake]

I don't think the problem lies within the damage caps. For example, it seems inappropriate for a level 2 spell (one that you get at level 3 if you're a wizard) has its damage capped at level 20 (which typically speaking is as high as you're going to get). The solution, I believe, is actually to increase the amount of damage the spell deals per level rather than increasing the total cap so spellcasters can do obscene things with incredibly low level spells.

[NeoSeraphi]

I don't think the problem lies within the damage caps. For example, it seems inappropriate for a level 2 spell (one that you get at level 3 if you're a wizard) has its damage capped at level 20 (which typically speaking is as high as you're going to get). The solution, I believe, is actually to increase the amount of damage the spell deals per level rather than increasing the total cap so spellcasters can do obscene things with incredibly low level spells.

Well, I did that too. Evocation spells generally deal 1d6/level. I made it 1d8. And you can't do obscenely powerful things with low-level spells because the save DC is capped at 12+mod, which is awful for later levels. Still, expending a 2nd level spell slot to deal 10d8 typed energy damage at level 20 seems perfectly fair to me, considering what the other schools will be doing.

Damage caps are awful, because other spells generally don't have their caps set very high. (Spells with durations have rounds per level or minutes per level or hours per level with no limit, usually) And save-or-dies don't care what level you are. So if damage is to compete with save-or-dies, why limit it?

[jiriku]

Thank you! Do you have any of your own suggestions/spells you'd like to make? I hope to have about 20 new spells for evocation by the time this thread is done.

Move all Conjuration spells that deal energy damage into Evocation. Conjuration can/should be plenty happy with teleporting, summoning, calling, and creating things.


I don't think the problem lies within the damage caps. For example, it seems inappropriate for a level 2 spell (one that you get at level 3 if you're a wizard) has its damage capped at level 20 (which typically speaking is as high as you're going to get). The solution, I believe, is actually to increase the amount of damage the spell deals per level rather than increasing the total cap so spellcasters can do obscene things with incredibly low level spells.

QFT. Damage caps were absent in earlier editions, but in earlier editions, wizards got 40-80% fewer spells, so those lower level slots couldn't be ignored the way they are by high-level 3.5 casters. Also, metamagic stacking on a low-level spell with a high-level damage cap can create near-logarithmic numbers.

[NeoSeraphi]

Move all Conjuration spells that deal energy damage into Evocation. Conjuration can/should be plenty happy with teleporting, summoning, calling, and creating things.


That's an idea, sure, but it's not the point of the thread. Point of the thread is to write new spells.



QFT. Damage caps were absent in earlier editions, but in earlier editions, wizards got 40-80% fewer spells, so those lower level slots couldn't be ignored the way they are by high-level 3.5 casters. Also, metamagic stacking on a low-level spell with a high-level damage cap can create near-logarithmic numbers.

Yes, but hit points, energy resistances, and other defenses scaled so high from earlier editions to 3.5 that damage is no longer considered a very effective way of dealing with enemies, unless you stack metamagic.

Why should throwing a bunch of feats on it be the solution? Requiring feats to be as effective as other solutions is why Two-Weapon Fighting, Sword and Board, and One-handed weapons are considered so bad.

Damage and evocation are to spellcasters what two-weapon fighting and archery are, powerful enough if optimized, but with such a feat tax and specialized style of fighting, you aren't left to do much else. Meanwhile, battlefield control and save-or-dies are the two-handed weapons.

Instead of saying "existing feats would make this worse", why don't we consider the current spell lists, and realize that it doesn't matter? If you make the spells by themselves more powerful, then damage becomes an option for magic again, and an option for illusionists, BCs, and transmuters, not just for pure blaster builds. By making it so damage spells are good enough without metamagic, damage spells will be much better off.

[Fizban]

I guess I'll go against the grain and say: I don't like these. Dealing d8's for no particular reason just annoys me, and giving a 20 die cap on a 2nd level spell is too far. A few spells can get away with being uncapped (or capped at CL20, which is almost the same), but they're usually very narrow spells with other weaknesses. Hailstones for example goes up to 20d6, but it does so in chunks as you add extra "stones," while allowing SR and dealing oft-resisted cold damage. You have to work a bit to use it, which mitigates the fact that it's theoretically just as powerful as a higher level spell (and it's already 3rd level).

Acidic Blast on the other hand... is grossly overpowered. It hits an area for a full 1d8/level when other spells of that level can barely manage 1d8/2 levels, and it caps at CL 20 instead of a standard CL10 for a 2nd level spell. Oh, and it steals an action on a failed save, and it uses the second best energy type. I'm surprised it doesn't ignore SR too at this point. You could literally cast no other damaging spell than this for the entire rest of your career if you wanted to. For comparison, there's actually spell that's almost exactly the same as this one in the Spell Compendium: Frost Breath. Except Frost breath deals 1d4/2 levels, caps at 5 dice (CL10), deals easily resisted cold damage, and dazes (one point in it's favor). I know the point of the spells in this thread are to make evocation more powerful, but making a few blatantly overpowered spells isn't going to change a whole school: it's just going to get those spells banned. (Inferno's actually really good though. It matches up pretty much perfectly with my outline below.)

I do have a couple non-standard suggestions. Aside from the usual "just make the Orbs SR: Yes, or make them evocation," you could instead buff the whole evocation school. Notice how 1st and 2nd level spells tend to deal 1 die/2 levels, but at 3rd they jump to 1 die/level? That progression should continue, but doesn't. So continue it, at least for evocation spells: 5th level spells deal 3 dice/2 levels, 7th level spells deal 2d6/level, and 9th level spells just go for broke and deal 3d6/level, or a flat 10/level if you prefer (though that makes them very un-meta-friendly).

That's for pure damage spells, to keep up with inflated monster hit dice and constitution scores. Additionally, at 5th level you start having damage spells with status effects on failed saves, usually dealing 1d6/level and the effect lasting for 1 round. An example is Radiant Assault at 7th level, which deals 1d6/level and dazes for 1 round on a failed save (untyped damage, and targeting will!). Another is Lucent Lance at 5th which follows the usual single target touch-> no save formula, and blinds for one round. So you've got the template: 5th level spells that deal 1d6/level instead of the new boost of 3d6/2 levels will do something like blind for one round on a failed save. 7th level spells will either deal 2d6/level or 1d6/level and daze or nauseate for a round (while getting better damage types or untyped, and targeting new saves). 9th level spells will either kill outright, or deal 1d6/level even on a successful save-if they only deal damage it'll be 3d6 or 10 per level, or more if it's a common resistance or immunity. (Your Inferno deals half untyped and explicitly ignores evasion while carrying an extra kill effect on a failed save, perfect for 9th level. If it didn't allow the second save to avoid the bonus disintegrate it would need to deal less primary damage, but the second save means the spell is mostly about the big ball of initial damage.)

The other idea is to take a page out of conjuration's book and then pretend we're transputers: make some SR: No spells for evocation. How you ask? You evoke energy, which does something to the environment, which does something to the target, same excuse conjuration uses. Take the Iceberg spell and make it SR: no because once you freeze the air into a block of ice with cold energy, it's just a nonmagical block of ice. Make up a spell that blasts the floor apart into shrapnel, or just heats it till it melts into non-magical lava. Make another one that uses force to blast rocks out of the ground and into people. How about sending a lightning charge into the atmosphere to provoke non-magical lightning? The only reason Evocation doesn't have these bogus non-magical magic spells is because the one line the designers seem to fear crossing is making the school that makes magic energy immune to SR. But you can pull the same hair splitting with evocation as conjuration if you want to.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Acidic Blast

This needs to be bumped down a die to d6. I would have already recommended doing so, due to acid being one of the more powerful elements, but the non-trivial condition on a failed Ref save seals it.



Electric Hellsphere

This also needs to be scaled back a bit, because it's a SoD with a crapload of damage appended to it.


Inferno

Completely screwing the Rogue over like that is not a good idea at all. It's both overpowering and just serves to make casters even more blatantly dominating. If I actually used this on a player playing a Rogue, he would chuck the PHB at me, and for good reason.

Otherwise, I think it's okay.

[DeAnno]

With regards to Inferno, seeing as its a 9th level blasting spell, a suggestion: remove the special "fort negates" qualifier on the disintegrate effect. Disintegrate is primarily useful in combat because it destroys 0hp creatures with Regeneration even if they make their fort save (due to dusting) and taking away this effect seems arbitrary and unnecessary, especially since they have to fail a reflex save for it to "hit".

[Eldan]

Well, I think it's time to post my explosive blast again. It was, basically, a fireball fix at first.

Explosive Blast
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: Partial

An explosive blast spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per two caster levels and 1d6 points of physical bludgeoning damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6 each, for a total of 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage.

A successful reflex save halves the damage and prevents the bull rush effect. Successful spell resistance only negates the fire damage, but not the bludgeoning damage or bull rush effect.

Furthermore, all creatures in the area must make a bull rush check against your caster level check or be moved ten feet away from the explosion. If there is a barrier or wall in the way that is not destroyed by the blast, they are stopped in front of that barrier and take another 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the blast at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The blast sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the blast may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

Material Component
A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur, and a small inflated animal bladder that is pierced as part of the spell.

[Yitzi]

-I see no reason for acid spells to be evocation; evocation deals with energy and forces, and acid is neither. It's as absurd as having a fire or cold spell in the Conjuration school. (Some sort of corrosive field might be appropriate at high levels though.)
-If splatbook conjuration is a problem, just move all the non-acid damage spells to evocation, and depower the acid ones. Better to modify existing spells to what actually makes sense than to make new ones.
-I'd say that evocation spells do plenty of damage. An evoker is perfectly balanced in a party that doesn't include any tier 1 or 2 classes (assuming wizard being tier 1 means non-evoker wizards) or splatbook cheese (Shock Trooper, I'm looking at you.) It's the other wizard spells that need fixing.

[NeoSeraphi]

*rolls eyes* Everyone that disagrees with me and keeps making the same argument is not helping the thread. The point of the thread is to make new evocation spells that deal enough damage to actually threaten a normal CR monster.

I'm not making any SR: No spells either. That's not a proper solution, because it doesn't fix the main problem: Damage doesn't keep up with Save-or-Dies.

That said, let me post some new spells now.

Frozen Aether
Evocation [Cold]
Sorc/Wiz 3, Warmage 3
Components: V, S
Area: 60-ft Emanation, centered on the caster
Duration: 1 rd/lv
Save: Reflex half
SR: Yes, See text

With a power unlike any other, the caster blasts forth a chilling breeze that freezes the air and ground. All creatures in the emanation take 1d8/level cold damage (max 15d8) with a Reflex saving throw for half damage. Additionally, for the duration of the spell, the emanated area becomes slick with ice. All creatures who took damage must immediately make a second Reflex save or fall prone, and any creature who attempts to move across the ice must move half speed and attempt a DC 10 Balance check (as per the grease spell with the same consequences for failure). A creature with spell resistance does not ignore the penalties for walking across the ice. The caster is not immune to slipping and falling on the ice, though the squares he or she occupied when the spell was cast are not affected.


Repelling Shout
Evocation [Sonic]
Sorc/Wiz 4, Warmage 4
Components: V
Area: 60 ft Emanation, centered on the caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fortitude Partial
SR: Yes

With a deep breath, the caster bellows forth a draconic roar, followed by a thundering "BACK OFF!"

This spell immediately deals 1d6/level sonic damage (max 20d6) and initiates a Bull Rush with each affected target. The caster uses his caster level as his Base Attack Bonus, his primary casting modifier as his Strength modifier, and is treated as one Size category larger than he is per four caster levels (Maximum of Colossal) A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and prevents the Bull Rush attempt.

If a creature is grappling the caster and the caster uses this spell, the creature must make a second Fortitude save regardless of whether it failed the first one or not (DC equal to this spell's DC). If it fails that save, the creature is knocked back 40 feet and stunned for one round. (This movement replaces whatever movement it would have been forced back from the Bull Rush attempt)

Repelling shout cannot penetrate a silence spell.



Superior Force Missiles
Evocation [Force]
Sorc/Wiz 6, Warmage 6
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
SR: Yes

This spell functions exactly the same as magic missile, except you may produce up to ten missiles (at CL 19), and each missile does 3d6+3 force damage.

[NeoSeraphi]

Hailstones for example
For comparison, there's actually spell that's almost exactly the same as this one in the Spell Compendium: Frost Breath.

You're missing the point. I have made this entire thread on the assumption that current evocation spells are completely underpowered, therefore current evocation spells make a terrible balance point to weigh my spells against.

[Blisstake]

Well, I did that too. Evocation spells generally deal 1d6/level. I made it 1d8. And you can't do obscenely powerful things with low-level spells because the save DC is capped at 12+mod, which is awful for later levels. Still, expending a 2nd level spell slot to deal 10d8 typed energy damage at level 20 seems perfectly fair to me, considering what the other schools will be doing.

10d8? Perhaps not if it's a small area. 20d8, like you have it, seems way too high. Many enemies often have proportionally low reflex saves, and can actually fail even low level spells. The other schools don't really have any superior options at 2nd level, to my knowledge.


Damage caps are awful, because other spells generally don't have their caps set very high. (Spells with durations have rounds per level or minutes per level or hours per level with no limit, usually) And save-or-dies don't care what level you are. So if damage is to compete with save-or-dies, why limit it?

Damage caps are in place so higher level spells don't have to add ridiculous extra effects so they can stay competetive with the lower level ones. As for Save-or-Dies, I actually use the Pathfinder ruleset where they mostly deal 10 damage/level on a failed save rather than outright killing someone. However, I believe in just 3.5, the reason spell level doesn't matter is because the spell generally does absolutely nothing if the target makes their save. Not only that, but there are plenty of ways to become immune to death effects, where energy immunity is slightly less prevalent (and is split between 4 different energy types).

[Mr.Bookworm]

*rolls eyes* Everyone that disagrees with me and keeps making the same argument is not helping the thread. The point of the thread is to make new evocation spells that deal enough damage to actually threaten a normal CR monster.

Uh, you do know what "PEACH" means, right? If you didn't want criticism, you shouldn't have posted these spells here.

The point is not whether it is better than a normal Evocation spell, the point is whether it is overpowered. All three of the spells you posted are to one degree or another and need to be toned down.

[NeoSeraphi]

Uh, you do know what "PEACH" means, right? If you didn't want criticism, you shouldn't have posted these spells here.

The point is not whether it is better than a normal Evocation spell, the point is whether it is overpowered. All three of the spells you posted are to one degree or another and need to be toned down.

Edit: There's a difference between simply dismissing someone's work and offering suggestions. So far, the only person to actually offer a way to fix things was the guy who said scale dice damage up with the spell level, but that was a fix for Evocation spells in general, not to any of these spells.

If people want to critique my spells, they should do it. I'm not complaining about that, I'm complaining about the people who post in this thread just to dis the entire premise.

[jiriku]

Why should throwing a bunch of feats on it be the solution?

It should not.


Instead of saying "existing feats would make this worse", why don't we consider the current spell lists, and realize that it doesn't matter?

Because it matters. If you create a 2nd spell that a 15th level caster can use to deal 70 damage to 5 different targets, some yahoo will stack metamagic on it and use it in an 8th level slot to deal 420 damage to those 5 targets instead, and because he's a focused specialist, he'll cast four of those every day, and the DM who uses your rules will have to build his encounters on the assumption that the 20 most difficult opponents of each day will get hit for 420 damage in round 1 or round 2.

Higher caps is a good solution. But I think a better solution is more/larger dice per caster level. For example, a simple method to upgrade existing spells would be to increase the die size of every damage dealing spell by 1 (notice that's effectively what was done with cone of cold in the example above. This will provide, on average, a 20-30% increase in damage output. It's also pretty easy to remember and apply during play.

AS far as creating new spells, I think a good paradigm should be to view the d8 as the new d6 -- except that high-level damage spells should roll d10s, or even roll 2d6/CL.

[jiriku]

Why should throwing a bunch of feats on it be the solution?

It should not. But if you 'brew without considering what would happen if someone did do that, and a novice DM finds your work here and uses it and is surprised when one of his PCs can deal a thousand damage per round at ECL 13 or lower, then perhaps there was room for improvement in your 'brew, neh? :smallsmile:


Instead of saying "existing feats would make this worse", why don't we consider the current spell lists, and realize that it doesn't matter?

Because it matters. Don't get me wrong, higher caps have a role to play. It's also worth investigating more/larger dice per caster level. I think a good paradigm should be to view the d8 as the new d6 -- except that high-level damage spells should roll d10s, or even roll 2d6/CL. A blend of the two approaches (more/bigger dice + higher dice caps) would probably work best.

Edit: Yes indeed, this whole post is edited.

[NeoSeraphi]

Because it matters. If you create a 2nd spell that a 15th level caster can use to deal 70 damage to 5 different targets, some yahoo will stack metamagic on it and use it in an 8th level slot to deal 420 damage to those 5 targets instead, and because he's a focused specialist, he'll cast four of those every day, and the DM who uses your rules will have to build his encounters on the assumption that the 20 most difficult opponents of each day will get hit for 420 damage in round 1 or round 2.

Higher caps is a good solution. But I think a better solution is more/larger dice per caster level. For example, a simple method to upgrade existing spells would be to increase the die size of every damage dealing spell by 1 (notice that's effectively what was done with cone of cold in the example above. This will provide, on average, a 20-30% increase in damage output. It's also pretty easy to remember and apply during play.

AS far as creating new spells, I think a good paradigm should be to view the d8 as the new d6 -- except that high-level damage spells should roll d10s, or even roll 2d6/CL.

So what, you think 10d8 is good enough for 2nd and 3rd level spells? I don't. That's an average increase of 10 damage. And as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, damage only matters if you get every hit point down.

If someone consumes an 8th level spell slot to effectively cast wail of the banshee, who cares? Metamagic consumes higher spell slots, and deals effective damage for the spell slot it consumes.

I'm saying that metamagic is overpowered, but evocation shouldn't be underpowered to compensate for it. The spells should stand on their own feet.

I already increased the damage dice to 1d8, and my 9th level spell is effectively an improved harm. I just don't see why I should have to balance my spells around the existence of a way to make them better than they are. (WotC didn't when Persist Spell came out)

The current standard is that a 2nd/3rd level spell can do an average of 30 damage. At level 10. And level 11. And level 12, 13, 14, etc. Meanwhile, haste, slow, fly, stinking cloud, invisibility, and et cetera, all scale infinitely, lasting longer and longer. People say "It doesn't matter, combat only lasts 8 rounds anyway!"

Great. So I consume a 3rd level transmutation spell slot, and I become more effective for the entire combat. I consume a 3rd level evocation spell slot, and I have essentially wasted my turn because I could have consumed a higher evocation spell slot to end combat faster.

See the problem yet?

Edit:...Alright, I just read your edited post, jiriku. Thinking about it, a blend would definitely work better. I'll put a 15d8 cap on my 3rd and lower level spells.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Edit: There's a difference between simply dismissing someone's work and offering suggestions. So far, the only person to actually offer a way to fix things was the guy who said scale dice damage up with the spell level, but that was a fix for Evocation spells in general, not to any of these spells.

If people want to critique my spells, they should do it. I'm not complaining about that, I'm complaining about the people who post in this thread just to dis the entire premise.

Looking at the thread, there is literally one guy who said "I don't like this", and he gave detailed information, from a mechanical standpoint, about why he didn't like it. That is constructive criticism. I told you they were overpowered and gave you suggestions on how to fix them. Nobody has showed up just to dismiss it.

[jiriku]

Oh, we agree on the problem. I think we're at loggerheads because I'm concerned about what your fix would do to a game, while you're concerned about whether evocation spells become competitive with other spells. Two different priorities. I think they're both important.

[Phosphate]

-I see no reason for acid spells to be evocation; evocation deals with energy and forces, and acid is neither. It's as absurd as having a fire or cold spell in the Conjuration school. (Some sort of corrosive field might be appropriate at high levels though.)

I completely agree with the above. As sad as the fact that even common sense dictates Evocations to be on the low side of magic, it's how it works, and depowering everything else to that level is a more sensible approach than helping wizards get even MORE broken.

Regardless, here's a spell cause I was bored:

Twitches
Evocation [Electric]
Sorc/Wiz x (figuring out what x is will be up to you)
Components: S, V
Range: short (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels)
Duration: Instantaneous, then 1 minute/caster level
Save: Reflex Half, then Fortitude Negates
SR: Initial hit yes, then no

You zap the nerves of an opponent with fine tuned pulsating current, dealing 2d4 damage per caster level. This ability cannot reduce a target to 0 hit points or lower, and, naturally, works only on foes that DO have a nervous system. Afterwards, for 1 minute/caster level, damage to nerves hinders the target when he attempts fine movements. Whenever he may attempt to reflex save, initiate a maneuver, melee attack, use a spell with somatic components or a skill that has Str or Dex as a modifier, he must roll a d4. The action fails on a 1. The target may attempt a Fortitude save to negate this effect. If he succeeds, he no longer twitces. If not, he may no longer save against this spell for 24 hours.


Actually, it just hit me. You know what you SHOULD do? Restrict all those as Warmage-only spells. More people would play them, I'm sure.

[NeoSeraphi]

With regards to Inferno, seeing as its a 9th level blasting spell, a suggestion: remove the special "fort negates" qualifier on the disintegrate effect. Disintegrate is primarily useful in combat because it destroys 0hp creatures with Regeneration even if they make their fort save (due to dusting) and taking away this effect seems arbitrary and unnecessary, especially since they have to fail a reflex save for it to "hit".

Well, the problem is, disintegrate instantly slays a target. I'll edit the spell to say if they are reduced to 0 hit points from the blast, they are reduced to dust with no save, but if I just removed it would become a no-save-just-die spell. Thanks for your input.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Well, the problem is, disintegrate instantly slays a target. I'll edit the spell to say if they are reduced to 0 hit points from the blast, they are reduced to dust with no save, but if I just removed it would become a no-save-just-die spell. Thanks for your input.

Disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm) deals 2d6 damage per level, 5d6 if they make their save. It's not a SoD.

[NeoSeraphi]

I completely agree with the above. As sad as the fact that even common sense dictates Evocations to be on the low side of magic, it's how it works, and depowering everything else to that level is a more sensible approach than helping wizards get even MORE broken.

Regardless, here's a spell cause I was bored:

Twitches
Evocation [Electric]
Sorc/Wiz x (figuring out what x is will be up to you)
Components: S, V
Range: short (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels)
Duration: Instantaneous, then 1 minute/caster level
Save: Reflex Half, then Fortitude Negates
SR: Initial hit yes, then no

You zap the nerves of an opponent with fine tuned pulsating current, dealing 2d4 damage per caster level. This ability cannot reduce a target to 0 hit points or lower, and, naturally, works only on foes that DO have a nervous system. Afterwards, for 1 minute/caster level, damage to nerves hinders the target when he attempts fine movements. Whenever he may attempt to reflex save, initiate a maneuver, melee attack, use a spell with somatic components or a skill that has Str or Dex as a modifier, he must roll a d4. The action fails on a 1. The target may attempt a Fortitude save to negate this effect. If he succeeds, he no longer twitces. If not, he may no longer save against this spell for 24 hours.


Actually, it just hit me. You know what you SHOULD do? Restrict all those as Warmage-only spells. More people would play them, I'm sure.

I agree that depowering everything else would also be another solution, but I have neither the time nor the patience nor the desire to attempt such a massive overhaul of the entire 3.5 system. Just one school is going to be hard enough. So long as everything is in equal standing, I will be satisfied, and if the current wizard is one of the most powerful characters in the game, his evocation spells should reflect that. (Personally, I feel that shadow evocation and shadow conjuration both need to go die in an evocation-created fire)

I like your spell, though I think the duration should probably be rounds/level instead of minutes. (That's a lot of actions he could fail on)

I'd make it a ranged touch spell since it's not an AOE, and remove the Reflex save from it. (It would instantly become the standard Rogue-slayer) If you did all that, it would probably be a decent 3rd level spell (with 30d4 being the cap on damage)

[NeoSeraphi]

Disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm) deals 2d6 damage per level, 5d6 if they make their save. It's not a SoD.

Ah, whoops. I must have been thinking of destruction. Well, I don't want to add another 20d6 to my inferno spell. I'll update it. Thanks for the correction.

[Eldan]

You may be thinking of 3.0 disintegrate, which auto-killed on a failed save.

[NeoSeraphi]

Edited inferno to make it instantly reduce any creature it kills to dust as a disintegrate spell, with no additional save and no extra damage.

[~Nye~]

they all seem fair to me, I was going to say have a small cone for the acid, but it's already 15ft I thought that was fair tbh, I like alot of the control aspects which give these spells little kickers so you can get out of there :D

[Phosphate]

(Personally, I feel that shadow evocation and shadow conjuration both need to go die in an evocation-created fire)

The only problem with shadow evocations and shadow conjurations is that they are clearly not Illusions, but Conjurations. But Wizards of the Coast do illogical things on a daily basis, so this shouldn't surprise me.

I still think you should never, EVER make Evocation [acid] spells, tho.

[NeoSeraphi]

The only problem with shadow evocations and shadow conjurations is that they are clearly not Illusions, but Conjurations. But Wizards of the Coast do illogical things on a daily basis, so this shouldn't surprise me.

I still think you should never, EVER make Evocation [acid] spells, tho.

Really? You think the ability to replicate any evocation of a lower level with a single prepared spell of a different school isn't a problem? You know, fundamentally, like "Ban this school, it's cool, you don't need to know any evocation spell to cast it"-wise? I mean, that's one of the many reasons that limited wish is such a powerful spell!

Now, shades I don't have a problem with. As a 9th level illusion spell, it's pretty much what I would expect, but...the lower level ones are just aggravating.

I am firmly against evocation [acid] spells that linger, like acid arrow and acid fog do. Those are definitely conjuration. Acid burst, on the other hand, is a cone of instant acid energy, it's more like a black dragon's breath weapon than anything. (I don't think breath weapons would be considered conjuration effects)

[Phosphate]

"Acid energy" doesn't mean anything, really. AND if what you have is a swift burst or wave that makes something corrode, then that is clearly a Transmutation. As for an acid Breath Weapon...shouldn't that count as an Extraordinary ability?

The ability to replicate any evocation as Shadow Evocation does can be solved in a much simpler way that I actually fin quite reasonable.

Homebrew rule - you may NOT ban Evocation.

See? Problem solved.

[Eldan]

You create... an electrolytic field... that... moves H+ ions... cough cough... galvanism... cough cough electrons.

See? Makes perfect sense for acid evocation.

[jiriku]

Thing is, in D&D, acid damage has nothing to do with ions or electrons. Acid is an energy, just like electricity or fire. Just like cold. A vial of acid doesn't deal damage because it has an extremely low pH, but because it's chock-full of acid energy. Similarly, an aura of cold spell deals damage, not because it's leeching away your heat or reducing the kinetic energy in your molecules, but because it's bombarding you with cold energy.

Evocation manipulates energy. Conjuration produces substances. A flash of acid damage is an energy effect, and hence, should be evocation.

[NeoSeraphi]

Homebrew rule: You may not ban evocation

I wouldn't go that far. I would say: You cannot use shadow evocation or shadow conjuration to replicate a spell that is not in your spellbook (if you are a wizard)

For sorcerers, it's actually a good way to deal with low amounts of spells known...still, I don't know how I would fix it for sorcerers.

[Phosphate]

You create... an electrolytic field... that... moves H+ ions... cough cough... galvanism... cough cough electrons.

See? Makes perfect sense for acid evocation.

Transmutation much? Also, what exactly from the air are you going to use to make an acid? Nitrogen? Cause it's a pretty damn good resistor. You will slaughter your entire party with a thunderstorm way before an ounce of acid is generated.

[jiriku]

You will slaughter your entire party with a thunderstorm way before an ounce of acid is generated.

Which suggests another spell! :smallbiggrin:

[NeoSeraphi]

Which suggests another spell! :smallbiggrin:

Did someone say...another spell?

Oops!
Evocation [Acid] or [Electricity]
Sorc/Wiz 3, Warmage 3
Components: V, S
Range: Either Medium or a 30 foot Emanation centered on the caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No, or Reflex Half
SR: Yes

You attempt to use the ridiculous and convoluted rules of D&D to homebrew your own spell, and launch a blast of acid at a single target.

You have a 50% chance of success. If you succeed, you must make a ranged touch attack at medium range. If you hit, you deal 1d8/level acid damage (max 10d8) with no saving throw.

If you fail, you instead unleash hell, and accidentally create a storm of magical vengeance. You and all creatures in a 30 ft emanation centered on you take 1d8/level electricity damage (max 10d8) with a Reflex saving throw for half damage.

[Zakaroth]

Thing is, in D&D, acid damage has nothing to do with ions or electrons. Acid is an energy, just like electricity or fire. Just like cold. A vial of acid doesn't deal damage because it has an extremely low pH, but because it's chock-full of acid energy. Similarly, an aura of cold spell deals damage, not because it's leeching away your heat or reducing the kinetic energy in your molecules, but because it's bombarding you with cold energy.

Evocation manipulates energy. Conjuration produces substances. A flash of acid damage is an energy effect, and hence, should be evocation.

I dunno, when thinking about an acid spell, liquids or gases come to my mind. Acid as energy is just to alien for me to comprehend. It always comes as a substance. Therefore, I prefer it to be in the conjuration school.

@Neo: I really like the spells, im a big fan of evocation spells, gimped school or not, and these rock! Keep them coming.

[Ziegander]

A vial of acid doesn't deal damage because it has an extremely low pH, but because it's chock-full of acid energy.

:smallconfused:

A vial of acid deals damage because it is filled with acid. It is a mundane, alchemical fluid in a sealed vial.

Or are you going to argue next that a flask of alchemist's fire doesn't deal damage because it is a specially prepared mix of chemicals, but because it is "filled with fire energy?"

[jiriku]

:smallconfused:

A vial of acid deals damage because it is filled with acid. It is a mundane, alchemical fluid in a sealed vial.

Or are you going to argue next that a flask of alchemist's fire doesn't deal damage because it is a specially prepared mix of chemicals, but because it is "filled with fire energy?"

Umm, yes. D&D is very explicit about this:

energy damage: Damage caused by one of five types of energy (not counting positive and negative energy): acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.

I know that doesn't make sense from the perspective of the science we were taught in school, but D&D is based on the principle that Babylonion and ancient Greek worldview of the classical elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element) is correct, and the world is made of four kinds of elements, not several hundred kinds of atoms (entertaining elementals from Order of the Stick notwithstanding). Chemistry and physics do not work, because there are no atoms and no subatomic particles. Acid is a type of energy, not a substance. Fire, not acid, is actually the only form of energy that is also a substance (because fire is both an energy type and an element). Now, energy is sometimes fluffed as coming from chemicals, but alchemical items are low-end magic, not science, and certainly not chemistry (that's why you have to be a spellcaster to create alchemical items).

[Yitzi]

Disintegrate is primarily useful in combat because it destroys 0hp creatures with Regeneration even if they make their fort save (due to dusting)

While arguably it does (strict RAW says it doesn't, since they were already at 0, so it didn't actually "reduce them to 0", but RAI probably would say it would work), why not just use whatever means you used to get them to 0 and do 10 more damage with it to kill them? It has to bypass their regeneration anyway, or it can only do nonlethal damage (i.e. can't reduce their hit points.)

[Fizban]

You're missing the point. I have made this entire thread on the assumption that current evocation spells are completely underpowered, therefore current evocation spells make a terrible balance point to weigh my spells against.
If you don't alter the existing spells, then these spells will by definition be overpowered in comparison. It may not matter to you, but to anyone who's played a caster before it will be obvious. Unless you want to remove all the existing spells and rebuild the entire school from 1st to 9th level, it's a lot easier to just apply a broad fix to the existing spells. If the existing spells don't deal enough damage then make them deal more damage, it's the easiest thing to buff anyway. Then once you've done that, you can add in the new golden spells and they won't seem quite as bad since you've already raised the bar.

Furthermore, I already agree with you that existing damage spells don't deal enough damage. That's why I'd already come up with the fix I shared before. And I still think Acidic Blast and Electric Hellsphere are way overpowered. If all you did was increase damage of higher level spells to make them useful then I wouldn't have any complaints, but instead you more than doubled the effectiveness of a standard 2nd level spell while uncapping it, and added save or lose effects to both of them at levels where those kind of riders don't show up anywhere else. Normally a save or lose isn't so bad when they have to spend the round you lose chipping away your hit points, but with these spells you get the lose effect and damage their hit points so it's easier to turn that lose into a death. Add damage or add status effects, not both.

As for increasing the die size, well 1d8 isn't really much more damage than 1d6. It's an average of 1 point per die. I still don't think it's appropriate for large area spells at 3rd level, but it does make me consider applying my method using die steps instead of just more d6's. In that case, I'd give 5th level spells 1d10/level (max 15), 7th level would have d12's, and 9th level would have 3d6 or 10 as before. This would also let you grade the even levels, with 4th level spells getting the d8/level, and 8th levels dealing 2d8/level. Not sure what to do with 6th level spells since there's no good approximation of "3/4 of 1d6."

[DeAnno]

Oof, that was probably an unintentional houserule my group's used in the past. Studying the SRD and the PHB, I come to the conclusion that we were misled by the entry in the PHB's glossary:


Damage points are deducted from whatever character attribute has been harmed—lethal and nonlethal damage from current hit points, and ability damage from the relevant ability score).

This contradicts the SRD and relevant entry elsewhere in the PHB:


Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points.

It is a pretty good houserule though (working it the glossary way and letting Disintegrate kill), especially for stupid stuff like Regeneration Bludgeoning & Good & Obsidian.

On topic, one should remember that the best evocation spells don't even deal damage. In that vein:

Wall of Force, Mass
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Effect: Many walls whose area is up to one 10-ft square/level each
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell allows you to create many invisible walls of force, as in the Wall of Force spell except as noted here. You may create up to one wall per two caster levels within range, and each wall may have an area up to one 10-ft square per caster level. Unlike a normal Wall of Force, your walls may be vertical, horizontal, or at any other angle, and they can intersect each other (but nothing else) when you form them as you cast the spell.

Creatures may walk on horizontal Walls of Force, but must make DC 20 balance checks or fall prone. A gently sloped (45* or less) wall requires a DC 30 balance check, and any wall steeper than that cannot be walked on or climbed upon.

Disintegration effects or similar must destroy each Wall of Force separately, even if multiple walls intersect.


Contingency, Greater
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: Until Discharged (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates

This spell works like Contingency, except as noted here. The spell brought into effect by Greater Contingency must be one that effects the person of the target, and can be of any spell level up to 9th. The caster of the spell must carry the spell focus for the spell to continue to work, but once casted it will work regardless of his distance to the target, even if they are on different planes. This spell is immediately dispelled if the caster ever ceases to carry or drops the focus.

Each creature may only have one Contingency spell active on them at once. If a creature already has a normal Contingency when this spell is cast the first Contingency is automatically dispelled, but Greater Contingency can not be dispelled in this fashion (the second spell simply fails to work.)

This spell can't be dispelled normally, and is immune to all dispelling effects except for Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

[Set]

Thoughts on secondary effects for evocation spells;

Fire - sets target on fire, creates choking smoke that obscures vision, heatstroke / heat exhaustion effect (nonlethal damage + fatigue, similar to the effects of extreme heat), lights up an area (disadvantaging creatures wiith light sensitivity), possibly even creates sun-intensity fire that does extra damage to creatures that take extra damage from sunlight (vampires) or lose power in its presence (spectre)

Cold - slows, staggers or otherwise hinders target, creates slick terrain, frostbite / exposure effect (nonlethal damage + fatigue, similar to the effects of extreme cold), ability damage or temporary penalty to dexterity, weakens items for later bludgeoning attacks

Sonic - deafens, stuns or disorients (sicken/nausea effect), reduces hardness of items in area or armor bonus of armor for a round or a number of rounds after striking (vibrational weakening sets up the next rounds attackers to be more able to penetrate armor or sunder items)

Electricity - magnetizes metal-clad foes (or any foe, this is fantasy electricity, after all) causing all metal weapons to receive circumstance bonus to hit and damage the targets (kind of like faerie fire, 'debuffing' the target by making them easier to hit and harm by allies), stunning / staggering effect, knocks foes back, dazzles/blinds foes struck

Force - affects incorporeal, knocks foes back and / or trips them, stuns foes, generates invisible bolts of force that strike foes as if flat-footed, possibly creating advantage for spellcasters with sneak attack options, residual force entangles a foe for 1 round or so after impact

Negative energy - Con damage, leaves foe susceptible to contagion and / or infected with a disease, sickens/nauseates, fatigues/exhausts, corrosive lingering effect like that of an acid attack, causing living matter or even inorganic matter to decay, rot and break down

Positive energy - causes temporary benefits as it supercharges the target, but then causes fatigue/exhaustion

[NeoSeraphi]

Mass Wall of Force? That's an amazing idea!:smallbiggrin:

Greater contingency looks good too!


@Neo: I really like the spells, im a big fan of evocation spells, gimped school or not, and these rock! Keep them coming.

Thank you! I shall do my best to make evocation decent!

@Fizban: There exists a pretty good evocation rework that I support here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11013.msg377667#msg377667) (Scroll up a few posts, my link-fu is off today) It doesn't fix the current damage problem, but it lowers the levels of all existing evocation spells, so they become sub-standard, and my new spells would become the new standard for higher level evocation spells.

I know d8s don't do much for damage, but I was actually already planning to have d10s as my 5th and higher level spells (notice I haven't actually written any yet lol)

I used harm as my balance point for 9th level spells because clerics out-blasting sorcerers irks me. It also seems pretty fair, at 20th level dealing 200 damage automatically. (It also saves you a hell of a lot of time rolling dice) And since it's not bludgeoning damage like meteor swarm, there's no DR to worry about.

@Set: Thank you, I'll definitely be using some of these, though I doubt I'll personally be writing any negative or positive energy spells.

[Fizban]

Ah, Frank and K. It's a good list and if that's the baseline then these should fit in just fine. I don't personally agree with having area damage available that early, but if Fireball shows up at level 1 then you can use whatever areas you want after that.

Balancing against harm is actually a great idea, I'd never thought of that. It's got touch range and negative energy restriction, but the energy type's a bit of a wash and if you're increasing range and area across the board then you can ignore that too. One thing to remember with Meteor Swarm and all spells that deal slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage: DR still never applies. Spells deal damage as spells, while DR only applies against physical attacks. There are a couple of spells where the writers didn't do the research and wrote reminder text that's wrong, but the only time it might have a chance of applying by default is with the 'ol SR:no conjurations. So none of Meteor Swarm is blocked by DR, not that it's enough to save the spell anyway.

[NeoSeraphi]

Balancing against harm is actually a great idea, I'd never thought of that.

Thank you. It has a bonus of removing empower shenanigans, as there is no variable dice damage, and comes with its own maximize. Something that a 9th level blasting spell should do. No dice, no variables, just raw power that emanates from the caster. When other wizards are turning into dragons or stopping time, you shouldn't be wasting your phenomenal cosmic power rolling 1s for damage.