Supernatural Transformation and Powers with XP costs

[faceroll]

Does supernatural transformation actually remove the XP cost? Supernatural Transformation seems more general than a specific power, so despite powers becoming supernatural abilities which typically don't have an XP cost, wouldn't they still have an XP cost, since specific > general?

[Psyren]

The feat's already broken so why not?
Beware the word "innate" though, which is typically a contention with this feat.

I'm confused by your use of the word "power". Do you mean in the psionic sense or just the "look what I can do" sense?

[faceroll]

The feat's already broken so why not?
Beware the word "innate" though, which is typically a contention with this feat.

Well I was curious about the actual rules. And some StP erudite abuse :smallbiggrin:


I'm confused by your use of the word "power". Do you mean in the psionic sense or just the "look what I can do" sense?

In the psionic sense.

[Psyren]

In the psionic sense.

While it is true that all powers are PLAs, and that PLAs follow all the same rules as SLAs under transparency, they don't actually become SLAs - so it would take some pretty liberal reading to make this feat apply. In fact, transparency doesn't extend to feats at all. (Barring two specific exceptions.)

And the trouble with "innate" is that many DMs take it to mean "not from class levels" - which means that even if you got past the first hurdle, nothing you got via the Erudite class would pass the second. This is in fact doubly true for Erudites, whose discipline powers (read: spells) explicitly come from outside themselves and therefore cannot be innate by definition.

[Big Fau]

In fact, transparency doesn't extend to feats at all. (Barring two specific exceptions.)

Exactly. It is impossible to apply Supernatural Transformation to Psionic Powers because of transparency.

[Little Brother]

Wouldn't the Magic Mantle turn the PLAs into SLAs? Or am I just taking it too far? It seems to me to be that, for you, it makes Magic=Psionics, so wouldn't that make SLAs=PLAs, thus qualifying you?

On a side note, wouldn't that let you take Cerebremancer on one class twice?

[Big Fau]

Wouldn't the Magic Mantle turn the PLAs into SLAs? Or am I just taking it too far? It seems to me to be that, for you, it makes Magic=Psionics, so wouldn't that make SLAs=PLAs, thus qualifying you?

On a side note, wouldn't that let you take Cerebremancer on one class twice?

The Magic Mantle is an unfortunate victim of WotC's horrible editing abilities. RAW: It does allow Supernatural Transformation to work on Psionic Powers (but then the FAQ for SS overrides that by saying ST can only affect racial SLAs). RAM: They probably meant that Psionic/Magic Transparency always applies to characters with the Magic Mantle, as per the XPH's rules (thus making it more useful in a Psionics are Different campaign).