Is there any race that can start off as a soulknife?

[Daitini Peck]

Pretty much that. Is there any race which could meet the prerequisite for that class?

[MeeposFire]

Pretty much that. Is there any race which could meet the prerequisite for that class?

Unless you are talking about 3.0 the 3.5 soulknife can be made with any race as it is a base class.

[Obrysii]

Any and all?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This Soulknife (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) has no prerequisites, any character of any race can take levels in it.

[Flickerdart]

This Soulknife (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm) has no prerequisites, any character of any race can take levels in it.
Yes, but you shouldn't.

The 3.0 Soulknife requires a few things - 3 ranks in two skills, +3 BAB (meaning at least 3 HD) and 9 base power points. I am not aware of any race save Kalashtar that gets more than a piddling 1 or 2 PP, and Kalashtar have no racial hit dice. No full-BAB base psionic classes exist, but since a base PP pool is based on ML now (and PP pools have grown) you can get away with just a dip in the psionic class of your choice (I recommend Psion, so that you can use his bonus feat on Practiced Manifester), Practiced Manifester and then three levels of a full BAB class.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Didn't 3.0 Soulknife had a manifesting progression? :smallconfused:

[MeeposFire]

Yes, but you shouldn't.

The 3.0 Soulknife requires a few things - 3 ranks in two skills, +3 BAB (meaning at least 3 HD) and 9 base power points. I am not aware of any race save Kalashtar that gets more than a piddling 1 or 2 PP, and Kalashtar have no racial hit dice. No full-BAB base psionic classes exist, but since a base PP pool is based on ML now (and PP pools have grown) you can get away with just a dip in the psionic class of your choice (I recommend Psion, so that you can use his bonus feat on Practiced Manifester), Practiced Manifester and then three levels of a full BAB class.

Soulbow is alright but that is about it.

[DeAnno]

3.0 Psionics! It burns!

[Eldan]

Was it a PrC in 3.0? :smallconfused:

That could actually make sense, then. A PrC for psychic warriors.

[MeeposFire]

Was it a PrC in 3.0? :smallconfused:

That could actually make sense, then. A PrC for psychic warriors.

Yea it had its own progression of psionic powers (or did it improve your classes powers?), the knife to the soul type abilities, the knife, and sneak attack.

[Eldan]

Huh. Why did they ever change that? It's a much better idea than a base class.

[Amphetryon]

Huh. Why did they ever change that? It's a much better idea than a base class.

Mumblemutter melee mumble nice things.

[BlueInc]

The Pathfinder 3rd party "Psionics Unleashed" has an excellent revision of the Soulknife up for free on the srd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife).

[ThiefInTheNight]

Which itself was a port of Dreamscarred Press's Soulknife (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/soulknife).

[Flickerdart]

Like all Psionics Handbook PrCs, Soulknife had its own manifesting progression, with up to 3rd level powers chosen from the Psychic Warrior list. But that wasn't the god thing about it. The good thing about it was broken down across three abilities:
1) Soulknives could channel powers into their blade, as a move action. Such a power did not entitle the target to a save. This ability was gained at 3rd level, so a Psion 17/Soulknife 3 would still get 9th level powers.
2) Soulknives could channel psionic combat modes into their weapons, and enemies weren't allowed to raise defences against them. It also worked better on non-psionic creatures. This meant that a Soulknife could stab you, stun you for a few rounds and then sneak-attack you into soup.
3) Soulknives could override their psionic combat mode damage with Constitution damage. For five measly PP, they could hit their target with 2d4 Con damage, and at Soulknife 10, half of this would be permanent drain.
As an added bonus, there was no dumb 1/round restriction on the mind blade, so a Soulknife 6 could throw as many per round as he had attacks.

[MeeposFire]

Huh. Why did they ever change that? It's a much better idea than a base class.

Well they probably thought it sounded like a fun idea to play for 20 levels. Considering the idea could work if they used better mechanics I would say they have something there it is just too bad that they screwed up the mechanics.

[Eldan]

True enough, I guess. On the other hand, no-save powers sounds absurdly powerful ,actually.

[Fouredged Sword]

Take those abilities and spread them over 20 levels and you still got a good base class. Why did they turn it into such a trainwreck?

[Seerow]

The soulknife is better off being reduced to 1 or 2 feats. I remember Dreamscarred Press released something to that effect some time ago, but then backtracked and made the class that Paizo is using now :smallmad:

[Dusk Eclipse]

True enough, I guess. On the other hand, no-save powers sounds absurdly powerful ,actually.

Make it the capstone and only allows up to certain power level?

[Fouredged Sword]

On a class that only gets 3rd level powers over 20 levels as the 20th level capstone? Not that broken, and would make it's powers actualy useful in epic levels.

[Flickerdart]

On a class that only gets 3rd level powers over 20 levels as the 20th level capstone? Not that broken, and would make it's powers actualy useful in epic levels.
Heh...no-save Energy Stun, Psionic Blast, Ego Whip, Charm, Ecto Coccoon, Brain Lock, Suggestion, Aversion...

[Eldan]

Yeah, a lot of low-level powers suddenly seem a lot more impressive if they are saveless. And they'd probably get level 4 powers over 20 levels. The psionic Paladin to the PW's bard and the Psion's wizard.

[Seerow]

Heh...no-save Energy Stun, Psionic Blast, Ego Whip, Charm, Ecto Coccoon, Brain Lock, Suggestion, Aversion...

Presuming that the power still required a successful attack to activate, it actually isn't all that bad. There's about a bajilion ways to avoid weapon attacks, taking the saving throw out isn't all that bad. You're basically trading one defense for another. It makes you more versatile, but not noticeably more powerful.

[Fouredged Sword]

Spellwarp sniper does something like this I think, but only for reflex saves and aoe spells. It can be used to create a no save stun effect though. It is also a short PRC and I think the ability can be obtained with a dip.

Besides, at 20th level it is ok to break the game a little.

[Psyren]

Which itself was a port of Dreamscarred Press's Soulknife (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/soulknife).

It has significant improvements over their 3.5 attempt though, such as giving it full BAB and MAP, a much larger enhancement list, and of course the blade skills (many of which grant the WotC or DSP soulknife class features earlier than it would otherwise get them.)


The soulknife is better off being reduced to 1 or 2 feats. I remember Dreamscarred Press released something to that effect some time ago, but then backtracked and made the class that Paizo is using now :smallmad:

What's wrong with the PF Soulknife? It's at least on par with a Barbarian I'd say.

And there is a simple blade skill that removes the 1/round restriction in exchange for making your mind blades into daggers, allowing you full dual iteratives while throwing. Since the weapon die is hardly the main source of a Soulknife's damage anyway, this is an acceptable trade.

[Flickerdart]

And there is a simple blade skill that removes the 1/round restriction in exchange for making your mind blades into daggers, allowing you full dual iteratives while throwing. Since the weapon die is hardly the main source of a Soulknife's damage anyway, this is an acceptable trade.
That's pretty much the effects of a feat from Dragon. I didn't know Paizo was allowed to rip things off like that.

[ThiefInTheNight]

Can't copyright rules, only their text, IIRC. So writing a new feat/feature that effectively does the same thing isn't a problem, as long as you don't plagiarize the original by copying the text (or even directly paraphrasing, you'd have to rewrite it from scratch). I'm sure that WotC and Paizo had some sort of contract whereby WotC retained the rights to Dragon material, so they probably cannot use that even if they wrote it in the first place.

[Psyren]

That's pretty much the effects of a feat from Dragon. I didn't know Paizo was allowed to rip things off like that.

1) It's DSP actually, not Paizo.
2) I somehow doubt that the notion of forming multiple smaller blades with one's mind is Product Identity.
3) Most certainly, that's where they got the idea from. There's tons of useful stuff in Dragon that is now moldering because WotC basically wiped their rear end with it and moved on to 4e, rather than updating it in a Complete or other compilation where it belonged. (There were supposed to be multiple Dragon Compendia, after all.) So if another designer wants to dust it off and port it to Pathfinder, more power to them I say.