[3.P] Titan Mauler, Huge Weapons and small rooms.

[Fenryr]

Hello!

One of my players wants now to make a Titan Mauler (Barbarian Archetype). And he wants to use a Huge Battleaxe. The numbers are not a problem, but the roleplay and weapon size. If he's inside a dungeon, where spaces are reduced, what happens?

Let's say he's in a room of 10 x 10 feet. I know the Huge Battleaxe shouldn't be 10 feet long, but ... 6, 8? Should I say he's squished or something? That's assuming he's alone with an enemy in the same room. What about the rest of the party? They should grant cover or give penalties? The weapon is Huge and swinging it is not easy. Or should I ignore all of this to make it simple?

I mean, if the Barbarian wants to sleep in a hut or inn, the weapon is fraking huge and will stick out.

[Big Fau]

If the item itself is too big to fit through the hallway, then it can't be used inside the dungeon.

Oddly, there are no penalties to using a Large two-handed weapon in a 5ft-wide hallway other than the oversized weapon penalties. As long as the weapon can fit inside the hallway in some physical way, the character can wield it at no further penalty. Don't ask me how that works.


Edit: As I am not a fan of nerfing a noncaster, you really should just let him get away with it (or better yet: only bring the topic up when it could help him).

[Acanous]

Look up the penalties for [Tight] and [Low] spaces. I think it's -2 to hit and to AC, stacking if both.

[Amphetryon]

I tend to agree with Big Fau on this one. If you want to play it for more verisimilitude for the mundanes, consider the Squeezing rules in this case.


Squeezing

In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to AC.

When a Large creature (which normally takes up four squares) squeezes into a space that’s one square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies two squares, centered on the line between the two squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.

A creature can squeeze past an opponent while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.

To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

[subject42]

Since the squeezing rules only directly mention creatures, I wouldn't penalize him for it.

However, I would make him explain what kind of elaborate fighting style allows him to accomplish this daring feat. If he can make it plausible, then you're good to go.

[Larpus]

That's actually an interesting discussion, first there's the need to find the weapon's size, not sure about the greataxe, but a longsword usually has a blade as long as the whole arm of an appropriate sized wielder.

On the flipside, if his weapon is so big that he can't fight well in a 10x10ft room, does that mean that swinging it horizontally he could damage multiple enemies in a cone?

[Cieyrin]

That's actually an interesting discussion, first there's the need to find the weapon's size, not sure about the greataxe, but a longsword usually has a blade as long as the whole arm of an appropriate sized wielder.

On the flipside, if his weapon is so big that he can't fight well in a 10x10ft room, does that mean that swinging it horizontally he could damage multiple enemies in a cone?

At the point, I think it's time to switch to your backup Huge Shortsword you keep on hand to deal specifically with these situations, since you thrust with it, which takes up much less space and, while you only deal 2d6 with it, should suffice when you can't bring the 3d6 Huge Battleaxe to bear. If you're using PF Power Attack, you have the secret advantage that you can still use it with light weapons, as there's no clause denying light weapons. :smallwink:

[Fenryr]

I've discussed this with the player and he says he has a backup weapon, but he would like to know what penalties would apply for his Huge battleaxe.

Unless someone comes with a better idea, I will give him the squeezing penalties. And if he uses a different weapon (a sword as mentioned) and/or a good technique or wield, no penalties.

Thanks.

[CTrees]

My feeling? He needs a brilliant energy version of his huge weaponry.

[herrhauptmann]

Per the rules, I don't there's any restrictions on weapon size vs squeezing, at least in areas big enough for the player to fit. Remember the titan blooded pixie? Gargantuan warhammer, and no reach?

Once the player is actually in a spot too tiny for him (ogre in a 5ft corridor), then you bring out the squeezing rules, and the restrictions they have towards weapon size.
How big exactly, is this titan mauler?

[Fenryr]

He's a medium character using Huge Weapons (race not clear yet). As far as I know, only the penalties of using an oversized weapon exists. There's no extra penalties for movement and the like.

[Hiro Protagonest]

He's a medium character using Huge Weapons (race not clear yet). As far as I know, only the penalties of using an oversized weapon exists. There's no extra penalties for movement and the like.

Yes. And if you want to use realism in your game, you first have to explain why spears and longspears are two-handed, despite hoplites using 10-foot long spears one-handed. Then you have to cover how slashing and bludgeoning weapons don't work in corridors as well as piercing weapons (except for picks of course), make the combat maneuver rules a total mess, especially the grappe ones, create specific rules for non-reach polearm versus non-reach other, etc. etc.

[Fenryr]

Yes. And if you want to use realism in your game, you first have to explain why spears and longspears are two-handed, despite hoplites using 10-foot long spears one-handed. Then you have to cover how slashing and bludgeoning weapons don't work in corridors as well as piercing weapons (except for picks of course), make the combat maneuver rules a total mess, especially the grappe ones, create specific rules for non-reach polearm versus non-reach other, etc. etc.

Your point is to ignore all that and let him use a Huge weapon in a 10 x 10 room?

[Dragonsoul]

Oh dear, Has someone brought up real world logic in D&D?

...that poor poor catgirl

[Greenish]

Your point is to ignore all that and let him use a Huge weapon in a 10 x 10 room?Yes. It should fall under willing suspension of disbelief.

[Gettles]

Question, are you going to give him reach when he uses the weapon? Because either he should be able to hit things 10 or 15 feet away with it but its too big to use in a small room or he can only hit things 5 feet away in which case using it in a small room is no problem.

[Fenryr]

Question, are you going to give him reach when he uses the weapon? Because either he should be able to hit things 10 or 15 feet away with it but its too big to use in a small room or he can only hit things 5 feet away in which case using it in a small room is no problem.

Nice point. Reach doesn't increase if the weapon is bigger, right? Then no penalty. Forgot that option. Thanks.

[Greenish]

Reach doesn't increase if the weapon is bigger, right?In 3.0, it does, in 3.5, it doesn't, in PF, I don't think it does.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh dear, Has someone brought up real world logic in D&D?

...that poor poor catgirl

No in this case the poor catgirls are safe... God only klls them when you bring Real World physics

[Nagukuk]

Make the weapon slightly larger but MUCH heavier?

[Doorhandle]

Yes. And if you want to use realism in your game, you first have to explain why spears and longspears are two-handed, despite hoplites using 10-foot long spears one-handed. Then you have to cover how slashing and bludgeoning weapons don't work in corridors as well as piercing weapons (except for picks of course), make the combat maneuver rules a total mess, especially the grappe ones, create specific rules for non-reach polearm versus non-reach other, etc. etc.

Hoplites are phanalx fighters, and they are an archetype that can
use spears with one hand. Also, bludgeoning weapons could probably thrust and still do bludgeon damage.

[herrhauptmann]

Make the weapon slightly larger but MUCH heavier?

Increasing a weapon a size category doubles the weight. Reducing a size category halves the weight.
It doesn't sound too bad until you look at the weapons that are already absurdly heavy like the Goliath/minotaur greathammers.

[Cieyrin]

Increasing a weapon a size category doubles the weight. Reducing a size category halves the weight.
It doesn't sound too bad until you look at the weapons that are already absurdly heavy like the Goliath/minotaur greathammers.

The pattern breaks down from there, though, with Huge at x5, Gargantuan at x8 and Colossal at x12, Tiny or smaller at 1/10. Still, weights get absurd, sizes following suit.

[tadrinth]

Titan Mauler does not remove the restriction that a medium creature using a large one-handed weapon treats it as two handed and a medium creature cannot use a large two-handed weapon. He would have to use a Huge Shortsword or huge version of another light weapon. It's kind of lame.

[Doorhandle]

Nope. Jotengrip means they use two handed weapons in one hand.

[DoughGuy]

Allow him to have the weapon made out of adamantine (found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#adamantine)) and simply carve himself room to wield the weapon.

[herrhauptmann]

Nope. Jotengrip means they use two handed weapons in one hand.

"Jotengrip?"
I've heard of Jotunbrud, but never this Jotengrip. What/where is it?

[Cieyrin]

"Jotengrip?"
I've heard of Jotunbrud, but never this Jotengrip. What/where is it?

It's a Titan Mauler ability, allowing you to wield a Two-hander as a one-handed while still getting the two-handed benefits for Strength, Power Attack, etc. Think 3.0 Monkey Grip but cooler.

[NineThePuma]

Titan Mauler does not remove the restriction that a medium creature using a large one-handed weapon treats it as two handed and a medium creature cannot use a large two-handed weapon. He would have to use a Huge Shortsword or huge version of another light weapon. It's kind of lame.

Citation ?

[Cieyrin]

Citation ?

It's the Inappropritely Sized Weapons rules, each size category larger than you the weapon is designed for, it goes up a step in handedness. For a medium Titan Mauler, via Jotungrip, they can use a Large One-Hander or a Huge Light one-handed, as opposed to two-handed as normal. Unfortunately, due to the wording of Jotungrip, it only changes two-handers to one-handers with a penalty, it's not a drop equivalent size by one category thing.

Now, if they use Titanic Rage or Enlarged otherwise, Large Two-Handers, Huge One-Handers and Gargatuan Lights become viable. The same would apply to Half-Giant Titan Maulers, who would upgrade to Huge Two-Handers, Gargatuan One-Handers and Collossal Lights via Titanic Rage. Before that, if you're not a Half-Giant or a ported 3.5 powerfully built race (Goliath, Eneko) or not 14th level, you're stuck with Large One-Handers and Huge Lights. Also remember to make sure Massive Weapons is high enough to ignore the awkwardness penalty, Large are at no penalty at 6, Huge at 12th. Gargatuan and above aren't considered as either Powerful Build or Titanic Rage will bump you up to actually be able to use them at all.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It's a Titan Mauler ability, allowing you to wield a Two-hander as a one-handed while still getting the two-handed benefits for Strength, Power Attack, etc. Think 3.0 Monkey Grip but cooler.

Jotungrip isn't worth it, it can't be used to use a huge one-hander, and it's Jotungrip. Read it again.

Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a Titan Mauler may choose to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge.

[Cieyrin]

Jotungrip isn't worth it, it can't be used to use a huge one-hander, and it's Jotungrip. Read it again.

Man, I misread that bad. I suppose it's supposed to be support for sword and board but eyuck, that's horrible for everybody else. :smallmad:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Man, I misread that bad. I suppose it's supposed to be support for sword and board but eyuck, that's horrible for everybody else. :smallmad:

At least you can ignore the size restriction if you're male. :smallwink: