Puzzling Minotaurs

[Zombimode]

While the Minotaur has no trouble navigating through mazes, I find the creature itself is a maze, or rather its abilities.

1) Its gore attack damage is listed as 1W8+4. But in the MM1 it is said, that a creature with only one natural attack uses 1.5x Str on damage. So why has the Minotaur only +4 (which is his Str mod)?


2) This is the big one. The Minotaurs Powerful Charge ability is a bit of a mystery to me. In the SRD it links to the Powerful Charge quality, which provides bonus on damage on a charge. As I read it, its functions as a ridder; so every time a creature with the Powerful Charge makes a charge, the ability triggers and it gets the bonus damage.
Now, the Minotaurs Powerful Charge ability is different. Instead of bonus damage, it provides an attack. But Im not sure what this ability actually does.
A) Does it replace the normal attack on the charge? (But if yes, why is the +2 bonus not counted for?)
Or B) does it provide an extra attack of the gore type that deals the specified damage?

Probably B) is correct. But then, how do the stats of the Minotaur affects the bonus attack and the damage? What happens if he gets higher Strength or gets some levels that advance its BAB? This is not clear by the abilities description.

Further, assuming B) is correct, what happens if the Minotaur is unarmed? Does he get a normal gore attack with +2 to hit due to the charge and then the special gore attack described in the ability?


3) Im trying to figure out what would happen when a Minotaur Warblade uses the Charge of the Minotaur maneuver.
Does all the stuff in the maneuver description happen and then the special gore attack through Powerful Charge?

For this one could argue along the following lines:
P1: Powerful Charge triggers on every charge.
P2: Charge of the Minotaur is a charge (it somewhat says so in the description)
-> Powerful Charge triggers and the Minotaur gets his special gore attack


Could someone guide me through the maze that is the Minotaur? :smallwink:

[Togath]

Minotaurs possess a powerful charge ability(later on turned into a feat in mm3 and later), which deals extra damage on an attack made as part of a charge.

[Zombimode]

Minotaurs possess a powerful charge ability(later on turned into a feat in mm3 and later), which deals extra damage on an attack made as part of a charge.

Not according to the SRD:


A minotaur typically begins a battle by charging at an opponent, lowering its head to bring its mighty horns into play. In addition to the normal benefits and hazards of a charge, this allows the beast to make a single gore attack with a +9 attack bonus that deals 4d6+6 points of damage.

[Runestar]

The best way I can think of answering your question is using the minotaur monster class.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030202

So basically, it seems like an exception to the rules.

1) While the minotaur only has a single gore attack, it gets +str mod to damage instead of +1.5 str mod. This seems intentional.

2) Powerful charge basically means that everytime the minotaur charges with its gore attack, it deals the listed damage instead of its normal gore attack, but is otherwise identical to a normal attack. The +2 attack bonus from charging needs to be applied separately.

3) By rights, I feel that if the minotaur were to gain bab/damage bonuses from class lvs/magic gear/feats etc, his powerful charge attack should also improve accordingly.

By left, because this is listed as a fixed damage formula, it would not receive any benefit from say, power attack, weapon specialisation or amulet of mighty fists. So even if the minotaur is somehow power-attacking for +100, it still deals 4d6+1.5str damage. You see a similar problem on special attacks like rend or rake. The designer admits as much here.


Rend damage probably should be increased if you’re Power Attacking, but by the rules, it isn’t increased. Go complain to a game designer. Don’t forget to apply that damage, though.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061013a

Bottom line, the confusion likely stems from the designer conceptualising those abilities in a vacuum, and not factoring in possible improvements from templates/class levels and the like. It is not hard to houserule otherwise though. :smallsmile:

[Hirax]

While the Minotaur has no trouble navigating through mazes, I find the creature itself is a maze, or rather its abilities.

Could someone guide me through the maze that is the Minotaur? :smallwink:

Actually, in mythology the reason the minotaur was in the maze is that it was too stupid to find it's way out. It follows of course therefore, that D&D's take on minotaurs would be strange and confusing. :smallbiggrin:

[Rhatahema]

Looking at the Minotaur, rhinoceros, and triceratops entries, the Powerful Charge ability is pretty inconsistent in its wording and damage. I think the oddness of the Minotaur's statistics is mere oversight rather than intention.

By RAW there is no formula for Powerful Charge damage, but as a DM I would house rule that, on a charge, the Powerful Charge ability doubles the creature's base gore damage and adds 1/2 the creature's strength modifier to the attack damage (as suggested by the triceratops entry). Furthermore, I would allow the Minotaur to add 1.5x it's strength modifier to its base gore damage, since nothing in the text suggests it should be an exception to the rules. It seems to me like this would be a simple and consistent fix.

There's not much in the wording that suggests Powerful Charge was intended to give the minotaur an extra attack on a charge, which would be especially odd.

[Togath]

Again, don't overlook the powerful charge feat, even though it's effect is slightly different, you could(at least in theory) give creatures that possess powerful charge as an ability the powerful charge feat as a bonus feat instead, either that or change the powerful charge ability to duplicate, but still stack with the powerful charge feat(giving a way to scale the damage up on advanced creatures).