What class would benefit my group the most? Any help? :)

[ranger557]

Hey guys, right now I'm playing Pathfinder game with most pathfinder material available and some 3.5 books available. We rolled stats for our characters, so I might change my character to help fit the party. Right now I am a human barbarian, but the players decided to change up their classes. However they are still fitting the same niche just optimizing and so right now we have a elven archer, a dwarf TWF fighter, and a human fighter. Here is what I was thinking of changing to, to compliment the party as a whole. I was thinking of going Warblade/Crusader to be a melee plus a little support or I was thinking going full Artificer to use and create magic items for all of us. What do you guys think? Thanks :smallsmile:

[Fouredged Sword]

Cleric - healing may be needed. Posibly a cleric / warblade (or crusader) / windicator focuseing on white raven.

Bard could also be great. Marshal would find a boreing, but not bad character if you want a lower op character.

[pilvento]

Since your friends are all martial, i think bard+crusader or warblade using white raven is the best option, u can even go gish later into JPM if u want

[Godskook]

My vote is on Artificer, assuming you've got access to bread&butter artificer tricks and PF didn't change them much.

Action point a Bane(target) onto your weapon, and even at early levels you'll be scary to mess with. Later on, you get the ability to cast it on your allies, and iirc, you sould be able to make oils of the stuff too, eventually.

Customized gear is not only half the price of merchant stuff(effectively doubling party WBL), but is also superior, since you utilize MiC rules to improve slot efficiency by a LOT.

[Gnaeus]

I was thinking of going Warblade/Crusader to be a melee plus a little support or I was thinking going full Artificer to use and create magic items for all of us. What do you guys think? Thanks :smallsmile:

If those are the 2 options, artificer. Your party will have a lot of needs to be met and artificers can ultimately do anything.

My recommendation would also be bard. Bards can do some healing (which your party needs), buffing, which will help your party a lot, skillmonkey/party face, which will help your party a lot, and anything a bard can't do can be covered by UMD. If you have 3.5 options, bards can even fight with some effectiveness (Look up dragonfire inspiration and snowflake wardance) if you are bent on being in melee, but as your party's only caster I think you will have plenty to do without swinging a pointy stick.

[Fouredged Sword]

I wonder the power level of a cleric 1/ divine bard / warblade / vindicator build.

You get windicator and bardblade powers. This could posibly be a quite versitile melee brute.

[Elitarismo]

For that party? Wizard. They're going to need it.

[Larpus]

Yeah, with that setup they'll need some form of full caster, so something like a Wizard, Witch, Druid, Cleric or the such. Don't think that a half could pull it off.

[Eldariel]

A caster that can cover both, arcane and divine spells to some degree would be the best; control spells and long duration buffs would really help you along. Off the top of my head, good options include:
- Archivist
- Cleric (with Spell-domain and perhaps Magic or some such)
- Druid (not arcane per ce but their list has some of the goodies of both sides)
- Wizard (with Arcane Disciple or two and a decent Wis)
- Bard/Sublime Chord/Virtuoso (this would be an awesome force multiplier in a team with that much martial too, but the casting would lag behind a full caster until level 12 or so)

But yeah, a full spellcaster of either type (divine or arcane) would be a huge asset.

[ranger557]

Since your friends are all martial, i think bard+crusader or warblade using white raven is the best option, u can even go gish later into JPM if u want

Ok, Yeah i was thinking of going Martial Adept and go Warblade/Crusader for the power of the melee manuevers and the nice devoted spirit ones too. Because in the past i played a crusader flat and it was good at healing himself and his allies. But the bard thing would be interesting


My vote is on Artificer, assuming you've got access to bread&butter artificer tricks and PF didn't change them much.

Action point a Bane(target) onto your weapon, and even at early levels you'll be scary to mess with. Later on, you get the ability to cast it on your allies, and iirc, you sould be able to make oils of the stuff too, eventually.

Customized gear is not only half the price of merchant stuff(effectively doubling party WBL), but is also superior, since you utilize MiC rules to improve slot efficiency by a LOT.

Yeah i want to try Artificer again, I like casters too and i only tried Artifcer once in a lvl 1 one shot, but i know they are difficult to master lol. I'm not sure if we have MIC available. To clarify what we do have available, Lets see.

Pathfinder: CRB, APG, and i think thats it unless DM approval.
3.5: PHB, DMG, CArc, CAdv, CWar, CDiv, ToB, Dungeonscape, and ECS.


Yeah, with that setup they'll need some form of full caster, so something like a Wizard, Witch, Druid, Cleric or the such. Don't think that a half could pull it off.

So......Artficer is a half caster?? Well i didnt want to go Druid or Cleric, don't know how to RP them that well and not interested in the moment. Maybe Wizard but now I'm thinking i want to go as the gadget guy. Would Elf Artificer be a good choice?


A caster that can cover both, arcane and divine spells to some degree would be the best; control spells and long duration buffs would really help you along. Off the top of my head, good options include:
- Archivist
- Cleric (with Spell-domain and perhaps Magic or some such)
- Druid (not arcane per ce but their list has some of the goodies of both sides)
- Wizard (with Arcane Disciple or two and a decent Wis)
- Bard/Sublime Chord/Virtuoso (this would be an awesome force multiplier in a team with that much martial too, but the casting would lag behind a full caster until level 12 or so)

But yeah, a full spellcaster of either type (divine or arcane) would be a huge asset.

So full caster? No Artificer? In this campaign its Homebrewed so only Human, Elf, and Dwarf is available and we have a Bard but he had to go back up state, so for now he is an NPC in our base town helping us with goods and information. So caster would be better than martial adept for this group? and any caster would be better than an Artificer? is Artificer a half caster or caster at all? Also we are playing tomorrow...whoops forgot to mention that lol

[vampire2948]

Full-caster usually refers to classes that get 9th level spells. The Artificer only gets to cast up to 6th level Infusions.

But you've access to all the spells through item craftin'. So...

Artificer would work pretty well, assuming you can deal with the xp costs for crafting. You've a lot of options with Artificer, melee-ficer, wand-ificer, minion-ficer... the lists are endless! :P

[Eldariel]

So full caster? No Artificer? In this campaign its Homebrewed so only Human, Elf, and Dwarf is available and we have a Bard but he had to go back up state, so for now he is an NPC in our base town helping us with goods and information. So caster would be better than martial adept for this group? and any caster would be better than an Artificer? is Artificer a half caster or caster at all? Also we are playing tomorrow...whoops forgot to mention that lol

Human is always a good race so that's no problem. Best race for most classes. Elf would be alright if they have the Intelligence bonus from Gray Elf, otherwise I'd just go Human.

Artificer can be your full caster but the thing is, they need a rather high amount of material and system mastery to be that way. They certainly get a ton of good infusions and the crafting is always beneficial (though any spellcaster can also craft just fine, they just need to pick a feat or two).


Both in the interest of making it less effort on yourself and working better with the party I'd just go Wizard if that's at all your cup of tea. Pick up Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Magic Arms and Armor and you can craft like 90% of the stuff you really want to craft anyways (occasional Wand you'll need to buy but it's not like they're that expensive either, leaving you with just the one-two Metamagic Rods and later on the Rings to pick up).

You could Arcane Disciple to pick up few key spells like Magic Vestment, Heroes' Feast, Death Ward and such if you can get a decent Wisdom, but they aren't all that relevant yet anyways. In a party like that I'd consider something like Mage of the Arcane Order to just do whatever needs to be done.

[Larpus]

Full-caster usually refers to classes that get 9th level spells. The Artificer only gets to cast up to 6th level Infusions.

But you've access to all the spells through item craftin'. So...

Artificer would work pretty well, assuming you can deal with the xp costs for crafting. You've a lot of options with Artificer, melee-ficer, wand-ificer, minion-ficer... the lists are endless! :P
My bad, the Artificer is indeed an exception as long as they work the way they did in 3.5 (haven't read the PF description yet).

[ranger557]

Human is always a good race so that's no problem. Best race for most classes. Elf would be alright if they have the Intelligence bonus from Gray Elf, otherwise I'd just go Human.

Artificer can be your full caster but the thing is, they need a rather high amount of material and system mastery to be that way. They certainly get a ton of good infusions and the crafting is always beneficial (though any spellcaster can also craft just fine, they just need to pick a feat or two).


Both in the interest of making it less effort on yourself and working better with the party I'd just go Wizard if that's at all your cup of tea. Pick up Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Magic Arms and Armor and you can craft like 90% of the stuff you really want to craft anyways (occasional Wand you'll need to buy but it's not like they're that expensive either, leaving you with just the one-two Metamagic Rods and later on the Rings to pick up).

You could Arcane Disciple to pick up few key spells like Magic Vestment, Heroes' Feast, Death Ward and such if you can get a decent Wisdom, but they aren't all that relevant yet anyways. In a party like that I'd consider something like Mage of the Arcane Order to just do whatever needs to be done.


Full-caster usually refers to classes that get 9th level spells. The Artificer only gets to cast up to 6th level Infusions.

But you've access to all the spells through item craftin'. So...

Artificer would work pretty well, assuming you can deal with the xp costs for crafting. You've a lot of options with Artificer, melee-ficer, wand-ificer, minion-ficer... the lists are endless! :P

Ah i see, well i guess that makes sense for spells, but making every magic items is tempting lol. Also let me clarify........this IS A PATHFINDER GAME and just the 3.5 books are add ons. So i might just go martial adept and %$#$ it if we die lol because too much book keeping for the artificer and wizard.

[hex0]

Dragon Shaman is pretty good for melee heavy groups.

[Metahuman1]

Artificer, hands down. More Paper work, but you can not only do everything, if your proactive about how you set things up, you can constantly shift between what is most useful for you to do right now on the fly. And by contributing with healing, both in and out of combat (And you don't even have to worry too much about wasted actions on in combat healing if your clever.), and with buffing up the party, the group will love you.

[ranger557]

Artificer, hands down. More Paper work, but you can not only do everything, if your proactive about how you set things up, you can constantly shift between what is most useful for you to do right now on the fly. And by contributing with healing, both in and out of combat (And you don't even have to worry too much about wasted actions on in combat healing if your clever.), and with buffing up the party, the group will love you.

Yeah i have been debating with myself if i should just stay human barbarian and just go with the flow and have fun keeping the RP going. Or go artificer with lots of magic potential or go martial adept because they are warriors with shiny things :).

Here is what i am right now

lvl 4 Human Barbarian
STR: 21
DEX: 15
CON: 16
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 9

+1 Frost Greataxe and breastplate(but in campaign world its leather with magic enhancement(weird but cool))

Feats: power attack, cleave, and might go FB(PrC) get a feat for that or just get Furious Focus.

Ablilities: got beast totem and got the Invulnerable Rager (ACF)

But I'm still thinking about changing maybe....not sure too many OPTIONS! lol

[Godskook]

Iirc, an Artificer only really needs ECS and core, specifically action points(which might not be available in a game that otherwise includes ECS). MiC is incredibly useful, but ultimately unrequired. I'd ask your DM how open he is to allowing either the core or MiC custom magic item rules. Magic items from MiC may have been replicated in the PF system already, so its really only the customization rules you'd want to try to port.

[Elitarismo]

The main key to being successful in Pathfinder is to interact with the PF rules as little as possible. Full casters are good. 3.5 only casters, like Artificers might be better.

[BlueInc]

Might I recommend the Psion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion)?