UMD and animate dead

[Fouredged Sword]

What happens when a character with no CL UMD's a wand of animate dead?

What happens when a character with a CL and a class spell list that dosen't have animate dead UMD's a wand of animate dead?

Can they control the undead creature or not?

[kestrel404]

If you do not have a CL, you can control 0 HD worth of undead - since that means any undead you create are beyond the amount you can control, obviously they are created uncontrolled.

If you don't have animate dead on your spell list but you DO have a caster level, then I don't see why that would make you unable to control undead. It just means that to get more or change the ones you have, you'll need to UMD the spell again. It's the same theory as a Mystic Theurge who has Animate Dead on one spell list but not the other - he can still control up to his combined CL * 4 in undead HD.

[Curmudgeon]

What happens when a character with no CL UMD's a wand of animate dead?
The spell in a wand has a caster level built in; that determines the price of the item. You create up to 2x that number of undead. The spell you trigger behaves as described, for that built-in caster level:
The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level.

[Fouredged Sword]

Cool, so handing around a wand of create undead could allow a part to gain some quick undead minions.

Under that reading how would it interact with pre-existing CL's. Do you use the wand's CL or your own?

If a character who could cast animate dead had space in his normal control pool would the undead fill that or use his own pool?

I feel that they didn't think control pools through when applying UMD and non-casters who may have the ability to use it.

[phlidwsn]

Wands always use their internal CL. Staves use the better of the two, that's one of their advantages over wands.

[Fouredged Sword]

The amount of undead created isn't the question, but the amount controled. Do wands of create undead MAKE a new control pool. If they do a necromancer could in theory control more undead than his natural Cl would indicate useing a wand to make an extra pool.

Also what happens if you use two wands of difrent CL's? What becomes your control cap.

[Curmudgeon]

The amount of undead created isn't the question, but the amount controled. Do wands of create undead MAKE a new control pool.
No, there's no new control pool. As with other overlapping magical effects, you get the best of your available CLs, whether that's from your class abilities or the magic items you're using. When one of the effects ends, you refigure based on the best you've got left.

[Jack_Simth]

What happens when a character with no CL UMD's a wand of animate dead?

What happens when a character with a CL and a class spell list that dosen't have animate dead UMD's a wand of animate dead?

Can they control the undead creature or not?
In both cases, when you're using a wand, you use the wand's caster level. The control limit is written in the spell, and the spell is Instant. Ergo, it's checked at the time of casting. So at the time of casting, any undead you control in excess of 4*CL become free-willed. While casting off of a wand, your effective caster level is that of the wand.

Cool, so handing around a wand of create undead could allow a part to gain some quick undead minions.

Correct.


Under that reading how would it interact with pre-existing CL's. Do you use the wand's CL or your own?

If a character who could cast animate dead had space in his normal control pool would the undead fill that or use his own pool?

When you're using a wand, you use the wand's caster level. The control limit is written in the spell, and the spell is Instant. Ergo, it's checked at the time of casting. So at the time of casting, any undead you control in excess of 4*CL become free-willed. While casting off of a wand, your effective caster level is that of the wand.

So if you've got a caster level of 15, you can control 60 HD of undead from the spell Animate Dead. If you pick up a wand of Animate Dead at caster level 5, and use it to animate a human skeleton, then at that point, you can control up to 20 HD of undead. You get your skeleton, and then any undead under your control in excess of 20 HD become free-willed (so this is probably a bad idea).


I feel that they didn't think control pools through when applying UMD and non-casters who may have the ability to use it.
That's a fairly common theme in D&D 3.X, yes.


Edit:
I can actually rules-quote most of this, if you like. It may be stupid, but it's RAW.