PrCs for Turn Undead?

[noparlpf]

I'm trying to find a PrC that grants Turn Undead (i.e., you don't need to have Turn Undead already to get into the PrC) and can be entered at 6th level. Preferably one that advances spellcasting at 1st level; I don't want to dip Cleric 1. Sacred Exorcist would work if the game I'm in were a higher level, but it requires 10 ranks in a skill and can't be taken until 8th level. Any ideas?

[ThiefInTheNight]

If it doesn't advance spellcasting anyway, don't even bother with a PrC, just dip Cleric 1. Cleric 1 gives a ton of benefits (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0), and you don't have to worry about any pre-reqs, plus you can do it whenever works out best.

Anyway, to my knowledge, Sacred Exorcist is the only PrC that can be entered without Turn Undead, grants Turn Undead, and fully advances spellcasting. Thus, it's probably the only dip for Turn Undead that will save your spellcasting; otherwise you're probably going to lose a level (and should go with Cleric).

[sreservoir]

those two feats in cityscape can get you in right after 6th, entering at 7th, but.

[noparlpf]

Good point. Yeah, I'd like to advance spellcasting.

Oh, and since I posted I opened the BoED and skimmed it. Looks like the Apostle of Peace also grants Turn Undead. Unfortunately, it also requires 10 ranks in a skill, as well as Vow of Peace, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Poverty, and Sacred Vow, and it doesn't advance spellcasting from the existing class.

What two feats in Cityscape? There's a way of gaining ranks in a skill beyond your level+3?

[ThiefInTheNight]

There are a few, but they're either not-really-worth it (there's a feat in Cityscape that gives you 1 rank in a skill, that can explicitly be above your maximum for that skill, but it has another feat as a pre-req), or very difficult to set up and unlikely to be allowed (a friendly Bard with Inspire Greatness and a friendly Psion with Psychic Reformation ought to be able to do it)

[noparlpf]

Yeah, it's a pretty chill game and I doubt anything too cheesy would be allowed.

I found another in Libris Mortis, Servant of Radiance, which can be entered at 6th level. Except that it turns out that while it doesn't require you to have Turn Undead to get in, it only advances existing Turn Undead and doesn't even grant spells at 1st level. Pah.

Edit: Same for Sacred Purifier from Libris Mortis.
Same for Purifier of the Hallowed Doctrine from Heroes of Horror.

[noparlpf]

I might try it with Sacred Exorcist in another game at a higher level.
In order to do that, do you know some feats that grant extra class skills? I need Knowledge (the planes).

[Psyren]

I might try it with Sacred Exorcist in another game at a higher level.
In order to do that, do you know some feats that grant extra class skills? I need Knowledge (the planes).

What class are you? It may have a Planar variant.
Also, the Education feat from ECS gets you all the Knowledges, or you can get the Knowledge Domain's granted ability with Planar Touchstone. (I think that works, not sure.)

[sreservoir]

What class are you? It may have a Planar variant.
Also, the Education feat from ECS gets you all the Knowledges, or you can get the Knowledge Domain's granted ability with Planar Touchstone. (I think that works, not sure.)

you kind of need know (planes) to get know (planes) with planar touchstone. 8 ranks.

[noparlpf]

What class are you? It may have a Planar variant.
Also, the Education feat from ECS gets you all the Knowledges, or you can get the Knowledge Domain's granted ability with Planar Touchstone. (I think that works, not sure.)

ECS is Eberron Campaign Setting, right? I'll check it out.

Now you might laugh, but I'm using Healer as the base class, with a one-level dip into Sacred Exorcist for Turn Undead, then Radiant Servant with some shenanigans to get the Empower, Maximize and the like on more than just one spell per day.

Edit: At ECL 12, I did this with Healer 5/Cleric 1/Radiant Servant 6 and had Cure Light healing 24 hp, and Cure Moderate healing 41, all the time. Next time I use it it'll work better, too.

[Andorax]

Not direction applicable...but follow me here.

Radiant Servant:

2nd: Empower all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.
6th: Maximizes all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.
10th: Empowers AND Maximizes all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.

Ok....now to dig out an issue of Dragon. 311 to be exact.

Variant Clerics (Evangelist)

Spontanious caster. Spells known list consists of a small list of freely-chosen spells, plus those from 2 (initially, more with higher levels) domains.

Yes...they cast their domain spells spontaniously using a cleric's selection of slots.


If I'm reading this right...evangelist/radiant servant of Pelor could manage some mighty impressive healing, yes?

[noparlpf]

That is indeed true, by my reading of it. I'm trying to get something like that to happen. I want to work in the Healer so I can use Healing Hands, though.

[Addi]

This is an old one, but I would suggest carnivore FTW! :)
You can find a lot of Stuff about turning undead there. I hope it suits you well.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872990/Comprehensive_Guide_to_Turning


Edit: Knowledge Devotion gives one Knowledge skill besides other nice stuff.

[noparlpf]

Problem with the Evangelist: you lose Turn Undead and can't enter Radiant Servant without a dip into something to gain Turn Undead. I suggest Sacred Exorcist at 8th level so you don't lose any levels for casting.

[Keld Denar]

How are you getting the Sun domain prereq for RSoP? Other than with a Cleric dip?

[noparlpf]

How are you getting the Sun domain prereq for RSoP? Other than with a Cleric dip?

With the Healer? I'm working on that. I'm not totally sure yet.

[Douglas]

Not direction applicable...but follow me here.

Radiant Servant:

2nd: Empower all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.
6th: Maximizes all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.
10th: Empowers AND Maximizes all domain spells cast from the Healing domain.

Ok....now to dig out an issue of Dragon. 311 to be exact.

Variant Clerics (Evangelist)

Spontanious caster. Spells known list consists of a small list of freely-chosen spells, plus those from 2 (initially, more with higher levels) domains.

Yes...they cast their domain spells spontaniously using a cleric's selection of slots.


If I'm reading this right...evangelist/radiant servant of Pelor could manage some mighty impressive healing, yes?
No need for such a relatively obscure source, just take a certain ACF from PHB2. Lose spontaneous casting of Cure spells, gain spontaneous casting of Healing Domain spells.

[Keld Denar]

There is also some debate as to what exactly constitutes a "domain spell". Is it a spell cast from your domain list? If so, then it is easy to exploit, but then you wouldn't even NEED to exploit is since all of the spells in the Healing domain are on the cleric list. If its not a spell on the domain list, then is it a spell cast from a domain slot? If so, I can't think of ANYTHING that actually gives domain slots other than being a cleric. Archivists, while able to cast spells on various domain lists, don't have domain slots. Neither do paladins or any other divine casting class.

So, in order for it to be abused, the rules have to be so open that the abuse isn't actually needed. And if its the most restrictive reading, the only way to get it is through cleric levels and then only 9/day (1 per spell level).

[Addi]

With the Healer? I'm working on that. I'm not totally sure yet.

You got this yesterday, didn't you? ;)
Knight of the Raven gives this nice Benefit, but I can't remember the prereqs.

Master of Radiance gives (Libris Mortis) gives Turn undead, but you lose a caster level and need to be able to cast daylight.

[noparlpf]

Knight of the Raven has the following prereqs: any good, BaB +4, ability to cast 1st-level divine spells, some RP stuff about being initiated by another Knight of the Raven.
It's nifty but you lose one level of casting for it.

[sreservoir]

its BAB is nice, but honestly, you'd be better off just dipping cleric unless you can't divine power.

although I guess if you don't have TU, ability to divine power isn't a given.

[Addi]

Do you want to have turn undead to get into RSoP?
He needs no turn undead. He needs Extra turning and this needs the ability to turn creatures. Maybe you get something out of this. Maybe one of the domains that grant turning?


Edit: How about taking this Planar Touchstone stuff with the plant, fire, water, etc. domain?
Then take Extra Turning and you're nearly ready for RSoP.

Edit_2: In the most ways you'll end up with one lost caster level. Sacred Exorcist will do it without though. The easiest solution imho is a cleric dip and the fluffiest one is three levels of KotR.

[flabort]

No need for such a relatively obscure source, just take a certain ACF from PHB2. Lose spontaneous casting of Cure spells, gain spontaneous casting of Healing Domain spells.

Or here.... Spontaneous Divine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant, EXACTLY what he described with the Evangelist. From UA, and on the SRD to boot.

[noparlpf]

Or here.... Spontaneous Divine (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant, EXACTLY what he described with the Evangelist. From UA, and on the SRD to boot.

Not exactly, because the Evangelist doesn't get Turn Undead.


Do you want to have turn undead to get into RSoP?
He needs no turn undead. He needs Extra turning and this needs the ability to turn creatures. Maybe you get something out of this. Maybe one of the domains that grant turning?

Edit: How about taking this Planar Touchstone stuff with the plant, fire, water, etc. domain?
Then take Extra Turning and you're nearly ready for RSoP.

Edit_2: In the most ways you'll end up with one lost caster level. Sacred Exorcist will do it without though. The easiest solution imho is a cleric dip and the fluffiest one is three levels of KotR.

If you do that, why not take the Sun domain (which you need) and gain Turn Undead from another source (one level of Sacred Exorcist, which doesn't lose you a caster level).
Anyway, I don't get these touchstone things. How does that work?

[Keld Denar]

Touchstones are magical maguffins that are attuned to special locations. Each of the locations have 3 different levels of investment. The most basic, which doesn't even require you go there, is also often a permanent constant boon. As long as you have the maguffin in your possession, you gain the benefit of the touchstone. The touchstone itself is 250g. The ability to tap it takes a feat (Planar Touchstone). Once you have one, and its attuned to a location, you can change it by going there. You can also aquire the higher order powers by going to the location and doing something. That something can be a gift, sacrifice, or service.

Its pretty neat actually. Its a BIT more expensive than spending a normal feat (you pay 250g for the maguffin, plus you need 8 ranks in Know: Planes), but for it you get quite a bit of customizability and the abilities are generally a bit stronger. Some are as basic as +1 to hit with all weapons (take that Weapon Focus), but others give a flurry-like extra attack with UASs, and the one that gets referenced most is the Catalogues of Enlightenement, who's basic boon gives you the granted power of any domain of your choice.

[Darrin]

Some are as basic as +1 to hit with all weapons (take that Weapon Focus), but others give a flurry-like extra attack with UASs


Do you mean Oxyrhynchus? Actually, that one works with any weapon, not just unarmed attacks. It triggers whenever your opponent is flat-footed or denied his Dex bonus (blind, attacker invisible, balancing on slippery terrain, etc.). Due to the really wonky wording, it can be used whenever you can make multiple attacks in a round, so if you pair it up with Snap Kick, you can get three unarmed strikes as a standard action.



and the one that gets referenced most is the Catalogues of Enlightenement, who's basic boon gives you the granted power of any domain of your choice.

Here's a list of interesting domain powers (http://http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9236967&postcount=3) available via Planar Touchstone.

As far as using it to get Turn Undead goes, though... well, if you can get access to one of the elemental/plant domains (such as via domain wizard), you can take Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightenment -> Sun domain power to convert one of your turn elemental/plant attempts into a Greater Turning, which counts as Turn Undead.

There may be an easier way, though... if you can get your hands on the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, take the Sun Domain power from that book: gain the Turn Undead class feature as a cleric, one feat and *done*.

If you're a spontaneous arcane caster, there's also Necromantic Bloodline + Kin Mastery (Dragon Compendium) for TU 1/day. Boy, ain't it just darn lucky that Sorcerers get all those bonus feats like wizards, huh?

[noparlpf]

So it seems as though the Planar Touchstone doesn't quite grant "access" to the Sun domain, just to its granted power...yeah, I guess I have to give up and lose a level of casting via Cleric 1 or KotR 3. Oh well.

[Keld Denar]

There's still the matter of WHAT exactly constitutes as a domain spell. If a domain spell is a spell that is cast from a domain slot, then RSoP's ability to Empower and/or Maximize a healing spell is negated since you don't have domain slots as a Healer, making the whole exercise rather moot.

Unfortunately, there isn't really a clear black and white definition of what RSoP means when they refer to a domain spell.

[noparlpf]

I subscribe to the reading that a spell cast by a spontaneous caster who only knows that spell from a domain is a "domain spell".

[Keld Denar]

But Cure Wound are on the Healer list, so you aren't getting them from the Healing domain...

And how exactly would that be different from a cleric prepping a cure light wound spell in his normal slot vs from his domain slot. The only thing that differentiates the two is the SLOT, not the spell.