[3.P] Can a Synthesist Monk make "unarmed strike" with extra arms? (not flurry)

[Dakaar]

As title, I am trying to make a melee synthesist for a party with like 3 rogue/ninjas, a cleric (really nice 2hander destruction/rage type build) and a new player playing a wizard (not super optimized).

I am wondering, if for example I make a Monk1/SynthesistX with Monastic Legacy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/monastic-legacy-combat), and roll a synthesist with tons of arms, can make unarmed strikes (as if I was a non monk?) with each hand and not flurry?



... I reallky need help making a synthesist! :)

Going to start at level 1 so wanted to avoid making a Kensai Magus as we will probably take forever to level up

[RndmNumGen]

Nope. Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Weapons(they only count as them for the purpose of some spells such as Magic Fang), so you would make attacks with your iterative BAB in the same way you would with any other manufactured weapon. If you want to pull off using a ton of Unarmed Strikes, going the Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) route is probably your best bet... but that's no more advantageous than just using Flurry of Blows, since you're still taking the -2 penalty.

[Drothmal]

I asked a similar question not that long ago

Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214203&page=2) (post 44)

In short, I don't know either. I'm going to play the cheap trick of "ask your DM", since the synthesist is so full of holes and pitfalls and there is very little clarification

[Dakaar]

Nope. Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Weapons(they only count as them for the purpose of some spells such as Magic Fang), so you would make attacks with your iterative BAB in the same way you would with any other manufactured weapon. If you want to pull off using a ton of Unarmed Strikes, going the Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) route is probably your best bet... but that's no more advantageous than just using Flurry of Blows, since you're still taking the -2 penalty.

-2 penalty would be fine. I wanted to dip 1 monk and take monastic legacy to get unarmed strike damage increase with CL -- then try to jack up my damage with evolutions and etc.

I guess its better to do rake/rend/etc though?

[Larpus]

Not sure if you can make Unarmed Strikes like that or not per RAW, but I'd say that the RAI and my rulling as a DM would be no since that's just a cheap way to get a bunch of attacks.

Eidolons are already powerful enough melee-wise by having to spend at least 3 points for every 2 natural attacks, which is nice and rather balanced in my book.

I mean, between Pounce/Reach, 5 full 3/4 BAB attacks (which is better than any Fighter can hope to get), huge bonuses to Str and other things are already enough so an Eidolon can rather easily one or two-shot most enemies of the appropriate CR.

[Dakaar]

Can a quadraped ride a horse? :P

Was thinking of......

Cavalier / Synthesist w/ Horse Master.

Extra Limbs, Extra lances, and the mounted combat feat chain for triple damage on a charge.

You could mounted charge on your horse and since you have pounce, you can make lots of lance attacks with your multiple lances or iterative attacks with your single pair of arms?

[Dakaar]

Not sure if you can make Unarmed Strikes like that or not per RAW, but I'd say that the RAI and my rulling as a DM would be no since that's just a cheap way to get a bunch of attacks.

Eidolons are already powerful enough melee-wise by having to spend at least 3 points for every 2 natural attacks, which is nice and rather balanced in my book.

I mean, between Pounce/Reach, 5 full 3/4 BAB attacks (which is better than any Fighter can hope to get), huge bonuses to Str and other things are already enough so an Eidolon can rather easily one or two-shot most enemies of the appropriate CR.

So, if I have multiattack, one scimitar, the dervish dance feat, and something like 10 claws, can I make a dex synthesist build without suffering a terrible penalty to my claw attacks? With multiattack my routine will be +0/-2/-2/-2.... right?

[MeeposFire]

Nope. Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Weapons(they only count as them for the purpose of some spells such as Magic Fang), so you would make attacks with your iterative BAB in the same way you would with any other manufactured weapon. If you want to pull off using a ton of Unarmed Strikes, going the Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) route is probably your best bet... but that's no more advantageous than just using Flurry of Blows, since you're still taking the -2 penalty.

Actually unarmed strikes are natural weapons with a bunch of exemptions. One of which is that they follow manufactured weapon rules for number of attacks.

[Psyren]

Actually unarmed strikes are natural weapons with a bunch of exemptions. One of which is that they follow manufactured weapon rules for number of attacks.

You're thinking 3.5 - this is Pathfinder.

"Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons." (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/strike-unarmed)

[Larpus]

So, if I have multiattack, one scimitar, the dervish dance feat, and something like 10 claws, can I make a dex synthesist build without suffering a terrible penalty to my claw attacks? With multiattack my routine will be +0/-2/-2/-2.... right?
Yep, pretty much.

But Eidolons get awesome Str bonuses, so there's little reason to go Weapon Finesse.

[Dakaar]

Alright, I think I am conceding the point on that one ^^.


I am looking at doing one of the following:

Synthesist straight out, melee based.
Synthesists 1-2/Monk X -- Start with super high wis, take biped, boost wis, or take "large" to boost damage/range even more. For bonus, you can cast enolarge person on yourself for even more range right?

Synthesist/Kensai with really high int -- they dont wear armor so synth helps tons here, and you can use additional attacks and still have extra hands to cast..


Help me out here :)

[MeeposFire]

You're thinking 3.5 - this is Pathfinder.

"Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons." (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/strike-unarmed)

Yay for inconsistency as both the magic fang and magic weapon spells say otherwise. Once again PF can't get anything right.

"Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon's +1 bonus on attack rolls.

You can't cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk's unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell."

"Magic fang gives one natural weapon or unarmed strike of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. The spell does not change an unarmed strike's damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage."

I would assume that the unarmed strike description takes precedence but PF needs better editors.

[Paul H]

Hi

And don't forget the max attacks for Synthesists.

Prob better just going straight Synthesist. Yes, there is a maximum to the amount of attacks, but they can be aligned (Good/Evil etc), do elemental damage, even increased damage dice!

Thanks
Paul H