Raise my Spells DC's

[hobbitkniver]

I need higher Spell DC's. My character is a heavy DMM level 6 cleric and any of my spells with saves fail about 75% of the time. They don't seem to be that low, at least to me. My wisdom is 19 plus 2 for my paripat. So my spell DC's go like this:

Level 1: 16
Level 2: 17
Level 3: 18

Even against the weakest monster, my level 3 spells never succeed. This game is relatively new and we've played 2 hours a week for like 4 weeks. I've only used spells with DC's a few times and I'm not sure any of them actually worked. I got heighten spell which maybe could help, but I'd have to use a lot of turn undead attempts to get anywhere. Can someone please tell me what's wrong with my character?

[Pigkappa]

We need more info about the monsters you are facing. Is their CR about 6?

[hobbitkniver]

Mostly we fight his homebrewed (I think because they are un-named)birdpeople. They are about the intelligence of a human I suppose, and probably they don't seem like their will would be that high. Another thing I failed to was a grimlock. Just looked it up +2 will... we use a meet or beat for saves and attacks that would make it so he'd need to have rolled 17-20 which should be 20% if I'm doing this correctly (which may or may not be true)

[Pigkappa]

I'm not an expert but I don't think this is easy. If you focus on a certain type of spells, some items in the MIC can help you, but they are mainly thought for arcane casters. The Spell Focus feat sounds like a bad choice. Your Wisdom is ok for your level.

A DC 17 save is not easy for a CR 3 monster. I've looked up a few of them (randomly determined) and their saves are usually < 7 which means they fail more than 50% of the time.


If you can change your feats, DMM: Twin Spell (I think this is the name) will require two saves instead of one, so their chance will usually be lower than 25%. However, DMM opens up a lot of broken options, some of which are even worse than this, and I don't recommend taking it at all.

[Vladislav]

Just use spells that don't allow saves. Buff yourself and your party with Magic Vestment, Bull's Strength, Magic Circle vs. Evil, stuff like that, and whack your enemies with Spiritual Weapons, or just regular weapons.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just like PCs, monsters have good saves and poor saves. Even if an opponent has class levels, it's typically easy to know which saves are good and which are poor.

1. Put 1 rank in each Knowledge skill that's used to identify creatures (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Planes, and Religion), so you'll be able to make skill checks to attempt to identify monsters. Success is irrelevant.

2. Get a note card, write down every creature type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#types) along with which skill is used to identify it and which of their saves are good and/or poor for their racial hit dice. It should look something like the following:
Aberration: Dungeoneering; good Will, poor Fort and Reflex
Animal: Nature; good Fort and Reflex, poor Will (all good for dire animals)
Construct: Arcana; no good saves, immune to most Fort and Will save effects
Dragon: Arcana; all good saves
Elemental: Planes; good Fort for earth and water, good Reflex for air and fire
Fey: Nature; good Reflex and Will, poor Fort
Giant: Nature; good Fort, poor Reflex and Will
Humanoid: Local; by class level
Magical Beast: Nature; good Fort and Reflex, poor Will
Monstrous Humanoid: Nature; good Reflex and Will, poor Fort
Ooze: Dungeoneering; no good saves, immune to mind-affecting and stunning
Outsider: Planes; all good saves
Plant: Nature; good Fort, poor Reflex and Will
Undead: Religion; good Will, poor Fort and Reflex
Vermin: Nature; good Fort, poor Reflex and Will, immune to mind-affecting

3. Get a good idea of what monsters are which creature type. At the start of every encounter, "I'm going to roll Knowledge checks to identify these monsters. What are their creature types?" It doesn't take any action at all to roll a Knowledge check, you automatically get one when you see something it may be relevant for, similar to Spot and Listen. Pay attention to each opponent's creature type, and decide which save you're going to attack. It doesn't matter if you fail all of the knowledge checks, all you need to know is their creature types and thus their most likely poor saves. Note that monstrous humanoids who are strong melee types typically have a high enough Con bonus to make up for their poor fort save.

4. Opponents with class levels have quite a few tells to determine their poor saves, any saves not listed as poor should be presumed to be good:
Holy symbol and/or holly and mistletoe, armor irrelevant: poor reflex
Spell component pouch, no armor: poor fort and will
Spell component pouch, light armor: poor fort
Spell component pouch, medium or heavy armor and/or shield: poor reflex
No spellcasting tells, no armor: no poor saves, or poor fort
No spellcasting tells, light armor: poor will and possibly poor fort
No spellcasting tells, medium or heavy armor: poor reflex and will
An opponent using a two-handed weapon likely has a good fort save.
An opponent who is dual-wielding likely has a good reflex save.

5. Know which saves each of your spells attack. Hold Person attacks Will, heavily armored nonspellcasters are your targets. Sound Burst and Blindness/Deafness attacks Fort, so unarmored with a spell component pouch, or aberrations/fey. Just be sure to have a decent mix of spells to attack each type of save, and always attack what's most likely to be an opponent's poor save.

Alternatively, you could just use DMM: Persistent Ice Axe and wear heavy armor and a heavy shield, with (Lesser Rod of) Extended Magic Vestment on each, and go melee opponents down instead of casting spells offensively.