Artificer.....Necromancer? Can it be done?

[Maho-Tsukai]

As the title says. Can an artificer be made into a successful "mad scientist" type necromancer who used gadgets and tech rather then magic to animate and command a legion of the dead that is on-par(So in no way smaller) size-wise with the cleric? Is there an item he can craft that gives him rebuking?

So...dose anybody think that they could turn an artificer into a "mad science" necromancer? Also...would Horned Harbinger do this concept justice or is it STILL not worth it?

[Deth Muncher]

As the title says. Can an artificer be made into a successful "mad scientist" type necromancer who used gadgets and tech rather then magic to animate and command a legion of the dead that is on-par(So in no way smaller) size-wise with the cleric? Is there an item he can craft that gives him rebuking?

So...dose anybody think that they could turn an artificer into a "mad science" necromancer? Also...would Horned Harbinger do this concept justice or is it STILL not worth it?

Well of course he can. Since the Arty can make all the magic items associated with being awesome with Necromancy, like the Rod of Undead Mastery, the Darkskull, the Scepter of the Netherworld, a Banner of the Unliving, and the Deadwalker's Ring, as well as making wands of Animate/Create Undead, yeah, I think you'll be okay.

EDIT: Also, Horned Harbinger shows up in the Dread Necro handbook, so I see no reason why you couldn't take some levels of it, though be sure to keep an eye on your Feat load - you want as many price mitigation feats for your items as you can take, in addition to all the fun Corpsecrafter feats you can get your grubby little mitts on.

ANOTHER EDIT: You want specifically the Mad Doktor Fronkenshteen kind of Artificer, though? You'll want to refluff some of your things that you make, like perhaps your Wand of Animate Dead is actually a tiny metal rod that holds an electric charge that zaps your new friend back to life. Also, take Leadership so you can have a proper Igor.

[shadow_archmagi]

The answer to any question that began "Can an artificer" is yes.

You have access to all the items, and all the spells, and a good helping on bonus feats, so there's no reason you wouldn't be able to match a Wizard or Dread Necro zombie for zombie.

[Urpriest]

Rebuking is trickier to access, though Command Undead (plus skill boosts for the Charisma checks) can be a suitable substitute provided you aren't going for exceptionally expendable minions. Anyway, aside from spawners and Slaymates Rebuke isn't all that handy.

[Coidzor]

As the title says. Can an artificer be made into a successful "mad scientist" type necromancer who used gadgets and tech rather then magic to animate and command a legion of the dead that is on-par(So in no way smaller) size-wise with the cleric? Is there an item he can craft that gives him rebuking?

So...dose anybody think that they could turn an artificer into a "mad science" necromancer? Also...would Horned Harbinger do this concept justice or is it STILL not worth it?

Not by default, because they lack the ability to emulate the deathbound domain and the Cleric is not "par" thanks to the deathbound domain, as you well know. The Cleric is above par. The artificer necromancer, on the other hand, can make it so that the entire party gets undead minions. The azun-gund is child's play for them, after all.

I suppose if you wanted to practically set a feat on fire, planar touchstone catalogues of enlightenment could give him the deathbound domain's granted power, so he'd just have to craft an item of desecrate and an item of animate dead and then the entire party could have undead minions, several characters with 4*HD undead and a character with 6*HD would exceed a single character with 6*HD undead.

Of course, the problem with that is keeping the CL of the animating item relevant, which would either necessitate multiple crafitngs/scrappings over the course of a career or successfully wrangling the DM into allowing the CL to be upgraded over time.

[Legendairy]

Of course, the problem with that is keeping the CL of the animating item relevant, which would either necessitate multiple crafitngs/scrappings over the course of a career or successfully wrangling the DM into allowing the CL to be upgraded over time.

Or by making a staff?

[Coidzor]

Or by making a staff?

Well, I suppose there's only so many HD needed for decent minions to beef up the rest of the party so a weaker item... basically a stronger azun-gund, would probably suffice to give them their very own mount/bodyguard hydra or what have you.

But if you're going to be an artificer necromancer, it seems more appropriate to leverage that whole item creation shtick so that you're doing something the cleric/dread necro/deathmaster/wizard would have trouble doing, though I suppose that with guidance of the avatar and passing around check-boosting items, scrolls could do in a pinch.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah...the artificer necro already dose something that the wizard and death master have trouble with...being a MINOION-FOCUSED Necromancer. Wizards are utter and total crap at the shambling army thing and the death master is only SLIGHTLY better then the wizard but still utterly sup-par at minionmancy when compared to the DN and cleric. The DN allows you more minions then anybody but is not a tier one class...Cleric is tier 1 and good about it but also wisdom-based, which is icky RP-wise for me. That's why I usually play dynamic priest undead taint clerics who use taint as their casting stat to mitigate the crap DCs dynamic priest leaves them with via tainted sorc...hence my username(Maho was the oriental, 3.0 proto tainted sorc.)....but not everybody allows tainted sorc due to it's inherent broken-ness. So to get my "low-wis, tier 1 MINION-BASED necromancer" kick in such groups(which is about 90% of groups at the least IMO) I thought artificer would provide me with what I want.

[Godskook]

Does your minion-mancy have to be undead related? Cause construct-based minion-mancy is both more thematically appropriate(and thus, better supported(Hey look! Infusions!)) and approximately equal on the power level.

[Flickerdart]

Constructs get really expensive. Corpses are cheap.

[Hirax]

Constructs get really expensive. Corpses are cheap.

Flesh golems!

[Coidzor]

Constructs get really expensive. Corpses are cheap.

Yeah, most cost reducers don't seem to work so well on them what with the fixed body costs. :smallannoyed:

[Godskook]

Constructs get really expensive. Corpses are cheap.

Animated Corpses also don't ever get immunity to magic as a racial feature.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah...constructs don't work here because of numbers. I am a quantity over quality kind of guy. I'd rather have a legion of disposable mooks then a squad of elite warriors. Not that I don't want elite warriors, but with necromancy you get the disposable mooks and some elites to boot. Constructs you get the small elite squad and while those elites may be stronger then the elites necromancy can get you necromancy can get you the legion, which constructs just can't.

[Coidzor]

Your games are fine with being bogged down by legions of mooks
with 1 HD or something even smaller, but OCD in the extreme about roleplaying wisdom scores in only such and such a way... And if they aren't actually influencing the game in any mechanical way, such as by being background decoration and porters, they still have to be obtained through mechanical means... What's up with that?

Besides, you're not getting legions without abusing spawn or command undead anyway. Or maybe being a Pale Master or sommat, but that's more just being your own zombie spawner. 6*20 = 120 1 HD mooks. or 240 cat skeletons. Or a Great Wyrm Red/Silver Dragon Zombie and Skeleton pair

4*20 = 80. 4 party members * 80 = 320 1 HD mooks. or 640 cat skeletons. or 4 Great Wyrm Red/Silver Dragon Zombies.

Then again, with a party of 4, the necromancer cleric could have 6*HD personally, the wizard have 4*HD, and then between letting the rogue and fighter borrow a +6 stat boosting item and Guidance of the Avatar from the cleric, UMDing 2 scrolls would be do-able, though it'd take several tries.

Say, Fighter with 8 Cha, 2 cross-class ranks, +6 stat item gives him 14 CHA for +2 to the check and enough that he doesn't have to UMD to emulate the ability score to cast the spell. So that's 2CHA+2ranks+20guidance of the avatar(competence) for +22. That's a DC 40 check, so there's a 15% chance of making it every attempt and a 5% chance of having to wait until tomorrow to try again.

I'm sure there's some other bonuses that could be granted here as well, possibly by shapechanging the fighter into something with a decent Charisma then adding the Cha-boosting item, in order to up the chance, but by that point it's a 17th-to-20th level party, it's basically a gimme anyway and most minions are really, really not that much of a factor at all.

Rogue with 12 Cha, enough ranks to consistently use wands, say about 14 ranks(assuming a +5 competence item normally), and that same +6 stat item for an 18 Cha and a +4 bonus there. So 4CHA+14ranks+20guidance of the avatar for +38 to the check against DC 40. Rogue has a 95% chance of success, 5% chance of having to wait until tomorrow.

That'd get you 4*HD*3+6*HD = 240+120 = 360 HD at 20th level, give or take a few more when taking CL boosters into account. Though by burning a feat, the deathbound domain can be grabbed by the artificer as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

The best way to animate dead is likely going to be scrolls. Craft one with just enough CL to raise whatever you want to raise and then have a minion cast the spell.

There are lots of level 1 adepts you can get through leadership. Adepts have animate dead on their spell list. No UMD issues for them reading a scroll.

Just make them max ranks in ride and get mounted combat. Use scrolls of PAO to turn any bodies into the largest dragon you can while keeping the duration permanent. raiseing a great wyrm gold dragon zombie would not cost more than 5 or 6 thousand gold, PAO and all. Much less with craft reducers.

That level one adept is a force to be dealt with when he is mounted on a great wyrm gold dragon zombie. Now multiply that by 30 or so.

[Dante & Vergil]

Thanks to the Deathmaster, who gets animate dead as a 2nd level spell which is 2 levels sooner than a cleric, Artificers can start creating undead at level 1 for when you want to start doing it now!!!