Tibbit builds

[Meom]

Hello all,

I have a few questions considering the Tibbit. I came across the race and I had great fun imagining what might be all possible with such a race. I did a lot of research so far and came with a fluff (pardon the pun :smallbiggrin:) image of how I see the character. An apparently innocent cat with a human familiar, which actually sneaks around, being a nifty rogue on rooftops and unleashes hell with spells.
In the research I did, I came across some feats that sounded usefull.
-Surrogate Spellcasting to cast spells in cat-form.
-Eschew Materials to don't need Material Components.
Concerning a human familiar I found out that there are rules for those in The Noble Wild.
I made in the past already quite some builds but because I am playing DnD 3.5 not that long yet I still am struggling with making a character that squeezes every last drop out off what's mathematically in it. So all the help is much appreciated.

Thanks in advanced,

[Hirax]

Tibbits make excellent assassins. When you're turned into a cat, you get excellent modifiers to hide, free weapon finesse for your natural weapons, a dex boost. Combine that with rings and all non-cloak wondrous items automatically melding on to your cat form and still functioning, and you've got a potent assassin.

[Cog]

...free weapon finesse for your natural weapons...
Nope, unless I'm missing something. Given your +2/+4 to Dex and -2/-10 to Str, it's certainly still a good choice for anybody intending to land a hit, of course.

[Daftendirekt]

Real, normal cats get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.

However, tibbits are not real cats. So, no, you don't get that. It would say in the racial traits block if you did.

[BlueInc]

Still, if you're a Tibbit assassin and not taking Weapon Finesse, you're probably doing something wrong.

[Tyndmyr]

Just did one recently for a new player. Spellwarp sniper. Yup, a cat with laser beam eyes.

[Hirax]

Oops. Get non-magical feycraft metal claw tips for free weapon finesse then. And metal mandibles if you want it for your bites too. We've found Jaws' cat!

[Jopustopin]

Here is a Tibbit Spellwarp Sniper build.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10323.0


IT definitively unleashes hell with spells.

[Daftendirekt]

Still, if you're a Tibbit assassin and not taking Weapon Finesse, you're probably doing something wrong.

Oh, I agree. Just saying, it's not for free.

[Hirax]

1500GP, to be precise >_>

[Zaq]

If you go Psion, you don't have to burn a feat on Surrogate Spellcasting, and you don't have to wear a big conspicuous spell component pouch on your collar (or take Eschew Materials). You just get that weirdly-intense-yet-faraway look in your eye that all cats get from time to time, and stuff happens.

Wizards are great, of course, but it's easier to make a good Psion as a tibbit. Just throwing that out there, assuming that your build concept is "magical kitty" and not specifically "WEEEEEEZARD kitty."

[FearlessGnome]

Speaking of Tibbits. I'm in a campaign right now where one of my team mates (Tibbit Dragonfire Adept) got told she couldn't use her breath attacks in cat form, because it opened up too much abuse at later levels. The player (and me) are not quite sure what abuse that would be. Does anything spring to mind?

[Zaq]

No, nothing springs to mind. There's nothing that makes a cat with a breath weapon any worse than a humanoid with a breath weapon. (Or a monstrous humanoid, in the case of a tibbit.)

[Tyndmyr]

Here is a Tibbit Spellwarp Sniper build.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10323.0


IT definitively unleashes hell with spells.

Oh wow...that's surprisingly similar with what I ended up with...Surrogate spellcasting was my solution as well for casting.

[Jopustopin]

Oh wow...that's surprisingly similar with what I ended up with...Surrogate spellcasting was my solution as well for casting.

Mew Mew... Pew Pew!

[NNescio]

Tibbit Focused Necromancer Nekoromancer 3/ Dread Nekoromancer 1*/Focused Nekoromancer 1/Ultimate Magus 5/True Nekoromancer 10†

* Practiced Spellcaster.
† Uses Arcane Disciple (Death) to qualify and Southern Spellcaster to advance both sides.

Surrogate Spellcasting is, of course, required at some point.

[TwylyghT]

I just want to see a tibbit zipping around using tornado throw. :smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

I just want to see a tibbit zipping around using tornado throw. :smallbiggrin:

I've tried to build a tibbit Swordsage who focuses on Setting Sun. That size penalty is really hard to get past, even if your DEX is pretty awesome (and the Setting Sun throws do use DEX if it's better than STR). I haven't found a way to make it work reliably in an E6 setting, at least, though you might be able to pull it off at higher levels. Unfortunately for the whole STR/DEX issue, while I know of several easily-accessible and poachable things that generically increase STR checks, I don't know of very many that work on generic DEX checks, at least not without a heavy investment. That's not to say that they're not out there, but I'm not personally aware of them.

That said, any tibbit Swordsage who wants to do that sort of thing needs to at least start with Twining Trip (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c), forcing the defender to use DEX instead of STR to resist your trips.

[mootoall]

Just seconding Psion, DFA and suggesting Druid. Turn into a cat while turning into a cat!

[Daftendirekt]

That said, any tibbit Swordsage who wants to do that sort of thing needs to at least start with Twining Trip (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c), forcing the defender to use DEX instead of STR to resist your trips.

That article is fantastic and hilarious. And it's even WotC official!

[TwylyghT]

I've tried to build a tibbit Swordsage who focuses on Setting Sun. That size penalty is really hard to get past, even if your DEX is pretty awesome (and the Setting Sun throws do use DEX if it's better than STR). I haven't found a way to make it work reliably in an E6 setting, at least, though you might be able to pull it off at higher levels. Unfortunately for the whole STR/DEX issue, while I know of several easily-accessible and poachable things that generically increase STR checks, I don't know of very many that work on generic DEX checks, at least not without a heavy investment. That's not to say that they're not out there, but I'm not personally aware of them.

That said, any tibbit Swordsage who wants to do that sort of thing needs to at least start with Twining Trip (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c), forcing the defender to use DEX instead of STR to resist your trips.

Unarmed arcane swordsage with polymorph any object to initiate combat by turning the opponent into a ball of yarn? :smallwink:

[Meom]

Okay thanks all for the suggestions. I thought of some builds:
Rogue: for SA, trapfinding, evasion, trapsence, uncanny dodge
Wizard: Familiar
Unseen Seer: for combi with Rogue and Wizard (+ on SA)
Arcane Trickster: for more rogue class lvl's, ranged legerdemain and Impromptu SA

I also looked for Psionic Rogue classes and that gave me the Psychic Rogue.

Also a thought was a combination of Rogue and Monk to help the cat with it's unarmed attacks.

Any thoughts on this?

[mootoall]

Okay thanks all for the suggestions. I thought of some builds:
Rogue: for SA, trapfinding, evasion, trapsence, uncanny dodge
Wizard: Familiar
Unseen Seer: for combi with Rogue and Wizard (+ on SA)
Arcane Trickster: for more rogue class lvl's, ranged legerdemain and Impromptu SA

I also looked for Psionic Rogue classes and that gave me the Psychic Rogue.

Also a thought was a combination of Rogue and Monk to help the cat with it's unarmed attacks.

Any thoughts on this?

Psychic Rogue is, indeed, a very good idea, and one I wish I had thought of :smalltongue:

[Geigan]

I once did a Tibbit totemist/swordsage/warshaper that had a necklace of natural attacks for weapon aptitude to make use of shadow blade and the collar of umbral metamorphosis(continuous version) to get hide in plain sight from the shadow template. It was incredibly silly and certainly nothing compared to most forms of melee, but it was hilarious to describe my enemies bursting into shreds for seemingly no reason whenever they walked into the shadows. Being tiny sucks so if you go down the incredibly silly route of beating all your enemies to death with your bare paws, make sure you get reach or lots of ranks in tumble. :P

[Meom]

I once did a Tibbit totemist/swordsage/warshaper that had a necklace of natural attacks for weapon aptitude to make use of shadow blade and the collar of umbral metamorphosis(continuous version) to get hide in plain sight from the shadow template. It was incredibly silly and certainly nothing compared to most forms of melee, but it was hilarious to describe my enemies bursting into shreds for seemingly no reason whenever they walked into the shadows. Being tiny sucks so if you go down the incredibly silly route of beating all your enemies to death with your bare paws, make sure you get reach or lots of ranks in tumble. :P

Its a different approach of it, but it sounds like much fun too. Can you tell me a little more about your build? How is it working with shadow blade? Is this also enchanting natural weapons like claws and fangs?

[Geigan]

Its a different approach of it, but it sounds like much fun too. Can you tell me a little more about your build? How is it working with shadow blade? Is this also enchanting natural weapons like claws and fangs?

In ToB you'll find the weapon aptitude enchantment(which allows feats applying to specific weapons to apply to he enchanted weapon) and from savage species(it's 3.0 so it may not fly with every DM) you'll get the necklace of natural attacks which allows you to essentially add enhancements to your natural attacks. The catch is that it's expensive to get all of them because the cost of the necklace goes up per natural weapon. It's a unique thing but it relies on a magic item to make it work so I definitely don't recommend it for most people. It was fun at the time though certainly. Totemists get a ton of natural weapons, so possibly a totemist 2/rogue X would be good, giving up a die of sneak attack to get some more natural weapons to apply it to.

[Lucid]

+1 to Psion

I'll be using a Tibbit Thrallherd as a bad guy in an upcoming campaign. She'll pose as her thrall's familiar, who will be set up as the supposed main villain. In the meantime she will try to befriend the party disguised as a gnome. And of course her believers make excellent spies as well.

If you want a more sneaky character, how about a Lurk(CPsi). It's a psionic class that gets up to 6th lvl powers, a limited form of sneak attack which can be boosted with PP, and some nice abilities which can be used to boost your attacks.

[Elboxo]

This is relevant to my interests
My last character died in a fight with a xorn ( wizards minus the spells and no source of healing vs monsters = deadzor )
So i asked my DM if i could play a factotum, at first i looked at playing an illumian or human, then he said "why not a Tibbit?"

So i'm playing a Factotum Tibbit, the SLA's mean you can cast while in cat form, unless i'm mistaken, but can't use opportunistic piety as a cat ( healing )
Havn't played it yet, but honestly i think it's gonna be amazingly fun; Factotum's do....everything..... and with Jack of All Trades you can do things without having any ranks in them, and probably get a decent modifier ( Intelligence to dex and str skills/checks )
Also being the mischievous and naturally inquisitive characters Factotums are combined with the Tibbit love of watching people as cats and learning from them, the skills of infiltration will be unparalleled..... also turning into a cat means your items become part of you...... break in, take what you need, someone hears you, turn into a cat........ boom.

Also on top of sneak attack you'll be able to do..... as a cat........... but you definitely want weapon finesse. You'll still have a fair amount of health ( d8 ), you get all skills, SLAs you can use in cat form ( Any wizard spell, level depends on your factotum level ) on top of sneak attack and healing.... The possibilities are nearly endless!
Plus being monstrous humanoids gives you immunity to things like charm person, hold person, dominate person, on top of giving you some extra Alter Self uses: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125510

I think i'm gonna enjoy Factotum Tibbit and i'd highly reccommend it as your Tibbit class if you want to be a rogue and more

EDIT: You'll be high Int based for skills and everything... but all mental stats high is nice, the only stat you don't really gain too much from is Strength, as long as you have weapon finesse. You get Intelligence to initiative too, which is nice, Wisdom decides how often you can heal (yourself, allies or undead ) per day (3 + wis mod ) And you heal a decent amount ( 2x Factotum level + Int mod ) But if flavour and variety is what you want, this is it

[mootoall]

If you want a more sneaky character, how about a Lurk(CPsi). It's a psionic class that gets up to 6th lvl powers, a limited form of sneak attack which can be boosted with PP, and some nice abilities which can be used to boost your attacks.

Lurk is a trap, go with Psychic Rogue instead.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Lurk is a trap, go with Psychic Rogue instead.

IIRC there was an Iron Cheff build for the Assassin contest that made great use of both Lurk and Psionic Assassin...

[Meom]

Thanks everybody for the good idea's and responses. I've got a lot of inspiration for builds by now.


This is relevant to my interests
My last character died in a fight with a xorn ( wizards minus the spells and no source of healing vs monsters = deadzor )
So i asked my DM if i could play a factotum, at first i looked at playing an illumian or human, then he said "why not a Tibbit?"

So i'm playing a Factotum Tibbit, the SLA's mean you can cast while in cat form, unless i'm mistaken, but can't use opportunistic piety as a cat ( healing )
Havn't played it yet, but honestly i think it's gonna be amazingly fun; Factotum's do....everything..... and with Jack of All Trades you can do things without having any ranks in them, and probably get a decent modifier ( Intelligence to dex and str skills/checks )
Also being the mischievous and naturally inquisitive characters Factotums are combined with the Tibbit love of watching people as cats and learning from them, the skills of infiltration will be unparalleled..... also turning into a cat means your items become part of you...... break in, take what you need, someone hears you, turn into a cat........ boom.

Also on top of sneak attack you'll be able to do..... as a cat........... but you definitely want weapon finesse. You'll still have a fair amount of health ( d8 ), you get all skills, SLAs you can use in cat form ( Any wizard spell, level depends on your factotum level ) on top of sneak attack and healing.... The possibilities are nearly endless!
Plus being monstrous humanoids gives you immunity to things like charm person, hold person, dominate person, on top of giving you some extra Alter Self uses: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125510

I think i'm gonna enjoy Factotum Tibbit and i'd highly reccommend it as your Tibbit class if you want to be a rogue and more

EDIT: You'll be high Int based for skills and everything... but all mental stats high is nice, the only stat you don't really gain too much from is Strength, as long as you have weapon finesse. You get Intelligence to initiative too, which is nice, Wisdom decides how often you can heal (yourself, allies or undead ) per day (3 + wis mod ) And you heal a decent amount ( 2x Factotum level + Int mod ) But if flavour and variety is what you want, this is it

One of my fellow players was playing a Factotum recently and I already wanted to make one for myself, so hearing you now gave me a good opportunity to make one. I found out a build by now:
Rogue 1: Skill monkey in the first place
Factotum 8: More Skills!
Marshal1: More Int because of aura's
Exemplar10: Higher Skills!

Now only feats and equipment and I've got myself a very nice Tibbby.

[Tyndmyr]

So...catnip. Fort save or will?