3.5 Gish feat selection help

[macdaddy]

I would like to create a gish build in 3.5E. Since we will be starting from 1st level, I know that my character will pretty much suck until I get access to 4th level spells. When I gain access to 2nd level spells, I may do "ok" in a few combats due to wraithstrike.

I have yet to decide between a sorcadin or a ftr / focused transmuter. Too many builds, too many choices.

I like the concept of the sorcadin, so I am leaning in that direction, even though I know it will particularly suck until 8th-10th level.

So I was considering what feats to take. There are four that are probably must haves: Power Attack, Combat Casting (pre-req for Prc), Practiced Spellcaster, and Divine Might. I don't list Arcane Strike because a similar ability is available from the Abjurant Champ (My GM won't let the dmg dice of arcane strike stack, so I don't see much point in taking it).

That leaves 4 additional feats for me to pick up. So I was looking through and stumbled across Arcane Disciple. This gives me access to the chosen domain spells. As a sorcerer, it appears that it basically gives me an additional spell known at each level!

That's pretty good. So I looked through the different domains, and I wasn't sure if it was all that great after all.

War:
1. Magic Weapon (duplicates a 1st level sorcerer spell and not very good)
2. Spiritual Weapon - Basically getting a free attack each round from a self attacking weapon. Not bad, but at the same spot as Wraithstrike, mirror image and alter self
3. Magic Vestment - uhm, I guess its ok if I do't have magic armor, otherwise kind of worthless
4. Divine Power - pretty good spell (effectively +2 BAB, +6Str), but at the same spot as Polymorph.
5 flamestrike
6 BladeBarrier
7-9 power word: blind, stun, kill

Good Domain:
1. Protection vs Evil - not bad
2. Aid - +1 to hit, temp hit points
3. Magic Circle vs Evil
4. Holy Smite
5 Dispel Evil (requirement for Sacred Exorcist)
6 Blade Barrier
7 holy word
8 holy aura
9 monster summon 9

Are these viable? Does anyone else recommend them? Or is it really not all that useful?

Are there other feats anyone would recommend?

[Donox]

The only issue with Arcane disciple is that it requires a Wisdom score equal to the spell level+10 to function, which can really increase your MAD. If you wanted to go that route you should take a look at the luck domain (for miracle and other goodies) and the strength domain for righteous might.

As for spell selection, you should get Fist of Stone and Wraithstrike from the Spell Compendium, and depending on your combat style you could grab combust. You should also grab a spell storing weapon, and the Smiting Spell feat, which would allow you dish out a lot of damage during the first round of combat with combust/shocking grasp/touch spell.

Once you take a level in spellsword, you should get a +1 mitrhil, githcraft, twilight, full plate for no arcane spell chance failure, or a breastplate if you more want mobility (although you could have expeditious retreat up for higher speed, or you could be flying.) You could alternately try to convince your DM to let you add your abjurant champion class level to mage armor and greater mage armor even though they're conjuration spells. The stat block of the sample NPC does this, so its is probably RAI.

[Vladislav]

So I was looking through and stumbled across Arcane Disciple. This gives me access to the chosen domain spells. As a sorcerer, it appears that it basically gives me an additional spell known at each level!


A common mistake people make reading Arcane Disciple is to assume it makes them know the spells. It doesn't.


Benefit: Add the chosen domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells.

It only adds the spells to your class list, not your known list. As a Sorcerer, you still have to spend one of you very few and very precious spells-known to learn that Magic Circle vs. Evil spell.

[Godskook]

My two current favorite gish builds are:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

Wizard 4/Warblade 1/Master of Masks 2/Knight Phantom 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 4/Knight Phantom +2

With the Sorcadin build, starting Paladin makes you tankier, and if you got the stats to support melee, levels 3-4 won't really be much worse than level 2. Level 5-6 will be a bit of a pain if you're front-line too much, but you want to avoid that. Once you hit spellsword, you're also getting to the point where you can afford mithral too. Start saving for a breastplate or full plate, depending on your tastes in movement versus AC.

With the Wizard build, you almost absolutely *NEED* Conjurer for Abrupt Jaunt. It'll make you deceptively tanky, as you can blow a charge to negate an entire enemy's attack routine. I'd also recommend Focused Specialist. The lost schools won't hurt a Conjurer(or a Transmuter) gish too much, and I recommend Evocation/Enchantment/Necromancy for your banned schools.

Regardless, Arcane Disciple(War) is a mediocre feat for gishes, despite how good it looks. The main point is to be able to persist Divine Power for full BAB, but you're already getting 16 BAB or better, so you're actually only getting a +4 to-hit and a typed +Str that'll likely conflict with your equipment.

[Flickerdart]

Arcane Strike is quite good even if you don't stack the dice - all you need is a ludicrous amount of attacks, which isn't hard to get as a spellcaster.

[macdaddy]

Ok, so for my Sorcadin (pal 2/ Sorc 4/ Spellsword 1/abj champ 5/ exorcist 8) I was thinking of selecting the following feats:

1. Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
3. Practiced Spell Caster (optional, but what to replace it with?)
6. Combat Casting (pre-req)
9. Arcane Strike (stacks nicely with power attack)
12. Minor Shapeshift (free healing)
15. Robilar's Gambit (attacks of opportunity)
18. Divine Might (extra use of turnings and cha bonus)

With this setup, I lose out on extend spell and persist spell, thus will never get persistent wraith strike (super-cheese), but I'd have to give up 2 feats to get that and wouldn't be able to persist wraith strike until 16th level anyway.

Practiced spell caster is the only thing on this list that I could easily replace. I am just unsure of what to replace it with....

How does this load out look?

[herrhauptmann]

What books are available? (Don't see it listed, so I'm assuming all...)

After you've started Sacred Exorcist (and gotten turning):
Divine Vigor (CW)
Divine Warrior (FoE)
Glorious WEapons (CD)
Haunting Weapons (DR334)


Beyond all those turning feats, there's devotion feats from CChamp, many are powered by Turning attempts.
Knowledge Devotion (thinking mans weapon focus/spec)
Travel Devotion
Law/good/evil/chaos devotion

Umm, you could go for Lightning Maces, then use the aptitude weapon trick with a high crit weapon like kukris. Or any other similar weapon style feat, highsword/low ax, crescent sword, etc.

Or martial study/stance from ToB for some Defensive Rebuke and Thicket of Blades. That might help you a little better than Robilars...