Wanting to get into 4E (advice needed)

[Brontes]

So I'm relatively new to gaming and I wanted to get 4E to round out my set and explore my options. It was suggested I create this topic from the Q&A section.

From what I can tell Essentials is kind of a revision of the 4E set, but I'm not aware to what extent. Wikipedia tells me that revisions and errata to 4E can be found in the Rules Compendium, but I can't find that in the product description on the site proper. I guess my questions would be the following:

1) Does the Rules Compendium contain errata on character powers/feats/class features, etc. from the Player's Handbook and the like? (This might have been the question I should have asked in the Q&A thread). If it's not in the Compendium, is there somewhere else I could find it?

2) If errata for those options exist, how different are the build options in Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms/Fallen Lands from the combination mentioned in question 1. The product description says it mostly provides new builds, but doesn't say if it replaces anything. So, I'm not sure if the old builds from older products would be Essentials compliant if errata and such exists for those options.

3) The advice I got from the Q&A thread says there's no agreed upon answer to number 2 (I apologize if I've misconstrued your answer here). I take it that there's no official ruling then?

I don't have a DM to take this up with. I game online and not with anyone consistently.

I plan on making these purchases anyway (I don't like limiting my options). The answers to these questions are mostly determining the order and pacing that I make my purchases.

Thank you

[Nu]

1) In some edge cases, yes. Some wizard powers were changed in the mage entry. However, the Essentials line does not contain anything close to a full list of errata of all of the preceding material.

2) The classes presented in the essentials line are different and distinct from their counterparts in the PHB--in other words, the Knight and Slayer do not replace the original fighter (weaponmaster). The essentials classes are a departure from the original At-Will/Encounter/Daily power format for classes, which varies now from class to class. It is possible to mix-and-match these elements to some extent as well, for example, knights can take fighter (weaponmaster) utilities, or a wizard (arcanist) could take a mage encounter attack power.

3) No builds are invalidated. You can still play the original PHB classes, though many of the option have been errata'd in one form or another (for good or ill). Some of the original classes are a lot better off with the supplemental material that followed (clerics and paladins, for example).

[NecroRebel]

The Compendium includes all current errata.

The Essentials classes are almost completely different from the earlier books. They get powers at different rates, have limited numbers of powers available (and not just due to a lack of sources; many are actually locked into a particular power at many levels), and generally don't have feat support. A couple of the older classes have been "updated" to be Essentials-compliant, but that's really just a matter of them having a lot of extra fluff and advice text in their description - they haven't been changed at all, mechanically, aside from alterations due to rules or errata. For instance, this update to the Wizard (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/401_Playtest_Wizard.pdf) includes everything that was in the PHB1 Wizard part, except it's now harder to read and more cluttered and corrected for errata as of its publication.

In theory, Essentials characters are completely compatible with non-Essentials characters and vice versa. In practice, many people greatly dislike Essentials for various reasons and so feel it isn't. At the very least, the optimization ceiling and floor for Essentials characters are much closer together than for other characters, since there's so few options for Essentials characters, and a moderately-optimized non-Essentials character will be significantly more powerful than any Essentials character can be. The fact that some Essentials feats are strictly better than similar non-Essentials feats also brings to bear accusations of power creep, which many people hate.

So, generally, some DMs will allow Essentials and non-Essentials sources freely, others will cut out some on one side or the other, and some will not allow any from one side.

[DeltaEmil]

Essentials introduces the idea of subclasses. Slightly different takes on original classes with possibly another focus.

As Nu said, two new subclasses of the fighter class are for example introduced in the book "Heroes of the Fallen Lands". The subclasses can take the same numbered power-type of the original class (and the original class can take the new ones introduced with the subclasses).

Another subclass introduced is the wizard subclass called the mage, who gets school specialization compared to the original wizard, now called the arcanist, who got implement mastery and had training in rituals.


Both are wizards. However, one is called the mage, and the other is the arcanist. Both are valid at the same table. Both have access to the same power pool. Both have the same hit points, armor proficiencies and other things.

There are more subclasses, which do not invalidate the original classes mentioned in the Player's Handbook 1 and 2, and the usage of the classes introduced in these both books do not forbid using the subclasses introduced in both "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" and "Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms".

Full errata and new changes to powers can be found for free on the wizards-homepage, specifically the rules archive-site:
http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/updatesarchive

Keep in mind that there can be new erratas.

[Brontes]

Thanks for the responses so far. I'm thinking pre Essentials stuff first then working my way from there.

Also, thanks for the errata link, Delta.

[Mando Knight]

I would recommend DDI if you want to get access to basically everything. It's a lot cheaper than buying all of the books.

[Brontes]

Are you talking about Dungeons and Dragons Insider? I mostly planned on getting enough to be rules compliant (plus or minus some doodads, half-orcs are in PH2 but not 1? Bogus), pre or post Essentials. I don't really need everything.

That and I don't really like subscriptions. I prefer to buy things online at a time. Just a feeling I have.

Also, can you download their rules stuff? I didn't know if they were doing downloadable versions of their main content.

[Kurald Galain]

(1) No. The RulCom does contain all errata'ed rules, but not changes to powers and feats; that errata is found in the (free online) errata document - although annoyingly, not all changes are actually listed in this document.

(2) For all classes except wizard, the version presented in HOFL/HOFK is completely different from the version in PHB1-3, even with errata to the latter.

(3) There's no agreed upon answer to the question of how compatible HOFL/HOFK is with PHB1-3. In general, a 4.0 build will not want anything from the 4.4 books, except for two or three powerful feats; and conversely, a 4.4 build is not generally able to use most powers and feats from the 4.0 books. That said, it is certainly possible to play both builds at the same table. Many people claim that it works fine, and also many people claim that this will lead to balance issues.

and (4) no, you cannot download 4E rules, at least not legally. If you don't want DDI, I find that the PHB1 is still the best deal, if your DM allows its content. It contains eight full classes and all the rules you need; you would need HOFL and HOFK and RulCom together to match the amount of content.

[Mindartis]

Honestly, While Essentials is... good, i suppose... for first time players, very quickly it gets frustrating, especially if you want to expand on your session and whatnot. The group that I am playing in right now was in this predicament. We had the Essentials, but very soon we wanted to do more, but couldn't. It's very limiting. I recommend buying the PHB's and the DMG's, even though they are a tad bit more expensive. Its really your call, though.

[Snowbody]

Although you can't download the full 4E rules legally, a lot of material has been released so that it's possible to play. Wizards.com has a page for downloading Keep on the Shadowfell and a "quick start" summary of the rules:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/TryDnD.aspx

There are also a few pages that compile all the promotional information WotC gave out about D&D4 before it was officially released:

http://dnd4.com/phb

although some of that has been errata'd.