Good gestalt for cloistered cleric archer?

[Daftendirekt]

You read it right! I decided that that's what I want to do when I submit for the Neverending Dungeon. However, I've zero experience with gestalt and am not sure of the best way to put this together. I know that having active/passive sides is a good idea.

My thinking is a full BAB class on the other side, maybe just good ol' fighter, and prepare buffs out my ass on the cleric side. Zen Archery is a given. I was considering going for Order of the Bow Initiate as well.

Anyway, thoughts?

[Hirax]

What level? Any banned sources?

[Dictum Mortuum]

Get crusader!

[Daftendirekt]

What level? Any banned sources?

Dur. Level 1, no BoVD, BoED, dragon mags, dragon compendium.

[Talbot]

Hmmm... Assuming you're going Cloistered Cleric all the way through on the one side, I'd suggest Swordsage 2/alignment appropriate Paladin variant 2/Dragon Warrior (Dragon Mag 298) 10/Shiba Protector 1/Swordsage +5 on the other; this lets you get extra mileage out of your Wisdom, with some decent base attack thrown in for funsies.

With the Serenity feat to run your Paladin abilities off Wisdom, you get your Wis not only for casting, but also to ACx2, HPx10, Attack, Damage, Saves, and the save DCs for your Swordsage abilities (which should mostly go to defense and mobility if you're going to be ranged). Should be pretty nasty.

Alternatively, I think Soulbows run off Wisdom, and with Cleric to back them up, the required crummy Soulknife levels won't hurt so bad.

EDIT: Ninjad to disallow Dragon Mags. Replace Dragon Warrior with whatever you want (Fighter for feats and base attack is a good choice, more Swordsage doesn't hurt)

[Daftendirekt]

What the hell is Shiba Protector, what book is the Serenity feat in, and what would be some good maneuvers/stances?

[Hirax]

With one side all cleric, consider:
Crusader3/favored soul2/prestige paladin2/ruby knight vindicator7/contemplative6

Prestige paladin 2 is great for divine grace and a mount (hippogriff with DM approval, per the list of mount alternatives in the DMG).

You'll wind up with 14th level favored soul casting, which should get you plenty of useful utility spells.

You lose 1 point of BAB early on with favored soul, and 3 points at the end with contemplative, but you still hit the sweetspot of 16 BAB for 4 attacks.

Contemplative gets you 2 more domains of your choice, plus immunity to poison and disease, and slippery mind.

I recommend aura of perfect order as your stance of choice once you get to RKV level 6, it allows you to treat any d20 result as 11 once per turn, without consuming an action. You will of course get more swift actions than you know what to do with once you get to RKV level 7.

[Godskook]

1.Shiba Protecter is from Oriental Adventures

2.Serenity feat is from Dragon

[Daftendirekt]

1.Shiba Protecter is from Oriental Adventures

2.Serenity feat is from Dragon

1. .... no it's not. Looking right now.
2. .... Dragon isn't allowed!

[Elric VIII]

1. .... no it's not. Looking right now.

Try checking in the table of contents. It's on page 222.

Also, Druid on the other side with PrC Ranger gets you a bunch of the good Ranger spells and free archery feats without requiring Dex (thus making you Wis SAD in combat). I also recommend on the Druid side, the ACF that trades away Druid weapon proficiencies and wildshape for Wis to AC, Track, Favored enemy, and fast movement. This is mostly because wildshape doesn't help archery too much and free Track and more Wis synnergy is nice.

[Iferus]

For archery, you need the following:

a) Base attack bonus
b) Battlefield mobility (to avoid AoO's and get in the right position for point c)
c) Extra damage
d) Extra feats are okay, I guess...

Since your cleric part doesn't provide much of that AND limits your main attribute tot WIS, we can start looking for dips and fill up with a support class levels like fighter levels.

Source material:
The Ultimate Archer Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866186/The_Ultimate_Archer_Handbook)
X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)


Swordsage 2 - Wis to AC, a couple of mobility boosts and counters.
Ranger [a lot of levels] - get archery spells, some feats, BAB and a guard animal. See the Ranger Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4621). Can be followed up by three levels of Deepwood Sniper (a 3.0 PrC).
Justice of Weald and Woe (Champions of Ruin)- 3/4 bab, but a lot of nice Archery stuff.
Scout - great if you want to get into Swift Hunter.
Rogue/Swashbuckler + Daring Outlaw - a solid way to get BAB and sneak attack.


And as for feats: I'd definitely take Knowledge Devotion.

[candycorn]

For reference: 3.0 Material is not allowed in Neverending Dungeon. This keeps out Oriental Adventures.

For those wanting to assist, you can safely assume that, thus far, the character will not advance past level 6. While the Dungeon doesn't end, there is a point at which it is "under construction".

The focus of the Neverending Dungeon is ENDURANCE. Characters must be able to handle much more than the average adventuring day, by themselves, without rest. Floor 1 has over a dozen CR 1 encounters, and for a full clear, you'd need to beat all of them, without resting. Some are more optimized than others, but all have a capability to kill a level 1 PC that is not properly hardy.

[2xMachina]

Also, NED is a solo dungeon, so you've to cover all the bases by yourself. (Also means you need to solo all encounters, so it needs to be optimized)

[candycorn]

Also, NED is a solo dungeon, so you've to cover all the bases by yourself. (Also means you need to solo all encounters, so it needs to be optimized)

That can mean multiple things, though.

For example: You don't NEED trapfinding. It's quite helpful, but characters have been made that get by without it. (I'm on the last encounter of Floor 3, and I haven't made one character with trapfinding.)

Alternate movement and detection modes are a big plus.

Either have a rockin' offense or a rock-solid defense. Or both.

Immunities are good things to have.

Dragonborn is the only template allowed (and it's usually one of the better options you can have).

Most players die 3-6 times before having a suitable level of paranoia.

[2xMachina]

Trapfinding can be mimicked by sufficient paranoia :P

Touch nothing! If you must touch something, stay far, far away.

[Hirax]

Hm, how helpful are evasion and mettle in this environment, with regards to traps?

[candycorn]

Trapfinding can be mimicked by sufficient paranoia :P

Touch nothing! If you must touch something, stay far, far away.

This advice does not exclude the floor.


Hm, how helpful are evasion and mettle in this environment, with regards to traps?

Moreso than not having them. Less than resistances, damage reduction, really high AC, uncanny dodge, and alternate movement modes.

[Daftendirekt]

Okay, so there have been LOTS of different choices and opinions thrown out. However, I just want to make it past level 1, first. What would the best 1st level gestalt be? High Wis, Zen Archery, Knowledge Devotion... I'm really thinking just do Fighter for the first level. Probably going to do that Swordsage 2, and lots of ranger.

How does Fighter 2/ranger 1/scout 3 sound for the first 6 on Side B. Get the two bonus feats from Fighter 2, and the rest is set up just in time to get Swift Ambusher at 6.

[Randomguy]

The beauty of zen archery is that it lets you dump dexterity and still be an archer, so you can feel free to grab the heaviest armour you can afford and you won't have worry about reducing your dexterity bonus to AC.

[Quietus]

Personally I'd probably go for a ranger/scout mix on the other side, for the free feats and mobility. Drop a feat on Travel Devotion to power Skirmish, and if you feel the need to crank the power up a bit, you can use the mystic ranger/sword of the arcane order bits to gain some useful arcane magic on that side.

[Daftendirekt]

The beauty of zen archery is that it lets you dump dexterity and still be an archer, so you can feel free to grab the heaviest armour you can afford and you won't have worry about reducing your dexterity bonus to AC.

Yeah, but do you think it's worth it doing at least 13 Dex to get Rapid Shot?


Personally I'd probably go for a ranger/scout mix on the other side, for the free feats and mobility. Drop a feat on Travel Devotion to power Skirmish, and if you feel the need to crank the power up a bit, you can use the mystic ranger/sword of the arcane order bits to gain some useful arcane magic on that side.

Herp derp, if I just go ranger 3/scout 3 instead, I can get Rapid Shot anyway. And, yeah, I went with Travel and Knowledge Devotions, and Celerity Domain.

EDIT: Btw, here's the sheet. Tell me what you think. Freyd (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=330311)

[Quietus]

Herp derp, if I just go ranger 3/scout 3 instead, I can get Rapid Shot anyway. And, yeah, I went with Travel and Knowledge Devotions, and Celerity Domain.

EDIT: Btw, here's the sheet. Tell me what you think. Freyd (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=330311)

Do note, of course, that the Ranger route will still limit you to light armor. Of course, I guess that since you're Cloistered Cleric, that's not a huge concern..

[Daftendirekt]

Do note, of course, that the Ranger route will still limit you to light armor. Of course, I guess that since you're Cloistered Cleric, that's not a huge concern..

Chain Shirts will do for now, and a Mithral Breastplate once I can afford it.