Mounted Archer question

[zheuse]

My wife is the DM in our D&D 3.5 game, and i just have this funny feeling she is going to kill me (in game :smallfrown:). I am currently playing a hellbred warlock, and at level 4, can boost my blast to 9d6 (once per day) and chain it. It is her fault she gave us 55k plat to gear up the group with at level 2. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway... We are doing the World's Largest Dungeon campaign, and i need to come up with a decent ranged DPS type, we already have a Fighter, Healer (miniature's handbook), rogue, and monk. I was looking into doing a Halfling mounted archer type character, since even mounted it would be easily able to move around indoors and in hallways.

I have been doing some research into Mounted Archery, and noticed a feat that stacked paladin and ranger levels for purposes of mount/companion and combined the 2 into one creature (called Holy Mount, in DR 325). Anyone have any idea how I should do the build for the first 6-8 levels? I should be able to keep her from killing me till we get to that point... I hope. Also, I would prefer not worrying about spells, or having a smallish spell list.

Any help would be appreciated! :smallsmile:

EDIT: Forgot to mention.. NO PSIONICS ALLOWED in the campaign. 3rd party books are allowed, even stuff like the "Chainmail Bikini" book

[Urpriest]

For stacking Mount/Companion, Halfling Outrider (Complete Warrior) is the way to go. It's a class for halflings that advances both, and gives some small benefits to mounted archery. The build might look something like:

Paladin 5/BeastMaster 1/Halfling Outrider X

Depending on feats access (flaws for example, and availability of Strongheart Halfling) you may have to delay some levels, filling in with Paladin 6 or Wild Plains Outrider. Anyway, this build gives you a Mount as a Paladin of level-1 that's also an animal companion as a Druid of level -2 (or full level if you take the Natural Bond feat). That's enough hit dice to be a meaningful threat. On the side, you get the basic feats to be a decent mounted archer.

[zheuse]

Strongheart Halfling is allowed, each of our characters was pulled from a different world/plane to get here anyway.

Why beastmaster instead of ranger? I was thinking of that for the combat style and favored enemy bonuses. I know +2atk and dmg against one type isnt a huge deal, but it does add up a bit. Also would be giving up track, wild empathy, and rapid shot at level 2.

Mostly what I am looking for is a mount that can keep me out of combat, and if something DOES get in range to melee, have a mount that will leave the enemy as a red smear on the floor under it's hooves/paws/claws/etc.

Flaws shouldnt be a problem, and base stats were same for everyone.. 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10. We get to pick and choose which goes where. =-)

[Urpriest]

Strongheart Halfling is allowed, each of our characters was pulled from a different world/plane to get here anyway.

Why beastmaster instead of ranger? I was thinking of that for the combat style and favored enemy bonuses. I know +2atk and dmg against one type isnt a huge deal, but it does add up a bit. Also would be giving up track, wild empathy, and rapid shot at level 2.

Mostly what I am looking for is a mount that can keep me out of combat, and if something DOES get in range to melee, have a mount that will leave the enemy as a red smear on the floor under it's hooves/paws/claws/etc.

Flaws shouldnt be a problem, and base stats were same for everyone.. 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10. We get to pick and choose which goes where. =-)

Beastmaster gives an Animal Companion of Level+3, Ranger gives one of Level/2, and you need at least four levels of Ranger to get it at all. Paladin 4/Ranger 4 is already 8 levels, which is where you expected your build to get killed off.

The build I suggested is quite heavy on having a powerful mount, and admittedly less heavy on being a powerful mounted archer. The latter is a trickier prospect, since one of the standard ways to be an archer (Skirmish Dice from Scout) doesn't work while mounted.

[zheuse]

Not too worried about skirmish or sneak attack damage, mostly going for the volley type archer from horseback/dogback.

Feats wouldnt be as plentiful with this compared to the ranger, but rapid shot or manyshot shouldnt be hard to get since i only need 1-2 for the mount.

Natural bond boosts druid level by 2(?) and Holy Mount (dr325) combines levels between Paladin and any other divine class (ranger casts divine spells iirc) for determining paladin mounts. Could I sub 2 levels of ranger for 2 of paladin for the free feats? so Pal3/Rgr2/BM1/HOx?

[Urpriest]

You need the ability to gain a Paladin's Mount to take the feat in the first place, so you still need Paladin 5. That said, Dragon access does open up more options if you really want to supermount it up. I'd have to ponder how many are really accessible at this level though. For example, Holy Mount might allow Prestige Paladin to advance your mount at twice the normal rate, but that seems like a dubious reading.

Anyway, a mounted archer has no need for Manyshot, since you can always full attack (albeit sometimes with a -2 penalty, Halfling Outrider eventually reduces this to zero).

I've been trying to think up an alternate build that focuses on the volley archery part. I'll dig around in the guides and see if I can't cook something up.

[zheuse]

Thanks, I had forgot about the full attack part, so rapid shot and many shot arent needed. :smallbiggrin:

OK. So Pal5, prolly going Pally of Freedom, and BM1, then HO for all 10... So I should be able to at level 6, be ready for the Halfling Outrider at 7.

I know Natural Bond prolly will be level 3-6th feat. And the Holy Mount would be the other. So Mounted Archery would be level 1 bonus from strongheart halfling? what should i make the other? EDIT: Have to have mounted combat before mounted archery.Also it is too bad I cant keep it longer than 1-2 hours/level with me...


On a slightly related note... the Energy bow.... That can be enchanted with Splitting, right? And there was another one called Arrowsplit or something like that?

[Urpriest]

Arrowsplit is a Ranger spell that does something similar to what Splitting does. You could probably put Spitting on a Hank's Energy Bow, though you'd have to do some reverse-engineering (basically, try to figure out what the "Energy Bow" part costs, as opposed to the base weapon and bonus).

As a totally different alternative, Totemists can get Manticore Belt which makes them a nontraditional but still quite entertaining archer, and Share Soulmeld which lets them share their melds wit an animal companion can make both of you archers. So you pick a flying, rideable companion like a Dire Bat and then both of you make 2-3 attacks as a standard action volley, each dealing 1d6+half Str+whatever else you can manage to add. It's...an odd option, but could be a viable one.

[zheuse]

Oddly enough, for a different campaign, we did figure out the cost kinda.. Around 2600 or so for the bow without the enhancements, only the 2d6 force dmg. But I think the cost was artifically low due to it being an Item Familiar at the same time. So maybe 5200?

I have never played or been in a group with a Totemist before, so not sure how they work. The belt does sound interesting though.

From what my wife has decreed, psionics are out, dragonmark stuff is out, incarnum is out.

Just FYI, about 2 months before we started the campaign, she asked me to make a level 30 Elven Vampire that specializes in 2h combat, and she told me to trick it out. I have this funny feeling that the vamp i made her (fighter 20/Ranger 10/Divine rank 0) is going to be the BBEG in this campaign. Once we finish the WLD (worlds largest dungeon) we will be in the Abyss or killing gods. The goal of our group is to become gods ourselves by destroying all the gods who oppose us.

[gorfnab]

Try this:

Supermount
LG Strongheart Halfling
1. Paladin - Mounted Combat, Track
2. Paladin
3. Paladin - Skill Focus: Handle Animal (prereq for Beast Master)
4. Paladin
5. Paladin
6. Beastmaster - Devoted Tracker
7. Beastmaster
8. Wild Plains Outrider
9. Wild Plains Outrider - Mounted Archery
10. Wild Plains Outrider
11. Halfling Outrider
12. Halfling Outrider - Natural Bond
13. Halfling Outrider
14. Halfling Outrider
15. Halfling Outrider - Ride By Attack (or some other feat)
16. Halfling Outrider
17. Halfling Outrider
18. Halfling Outrider - Spirited Charge (or some other feat)
19. Halfling Outrider
20. Halfling Outrider

At 20th level:
Special Mount 18th level Paladin = Paladin 5 + Wild Plains 3 + Half-Out 10
Animal Companion: 18th level Druid = Beast Master 5 + Natural Bond 3 + Half-Out 10

Another Dragon Mount option can be found on page 136 of the Draconomicon.
You would be able to use it starting at level 11 with this build
(equivalent paladin level 9 for mount abilities).

[zheuse]

I will be giving a runthrough on the build and see if it passes muster with my rules lawyer friend, and then my min/max devoted friend... then see if my wife approves. Knowing her, she will take it and make it a henchman of the BBEG and make me roll up another character...:smallfurious:

[Urpriest]

Hey something I might have misunderstood in your post: do you expect your warlock to be killed ~level 6-8, or do you expect this character to be killed ~level 6-8? I had been assuming the latter was true and you wanted a build that was good at low levels, but if it's the former and you want something good at higher levels then supermount isn't a bad choice.