Want to play a Rage Mage

[Dr.Epic]

First, I've never actually looked at the class, but the fact there is a PrC called Rage Mage is pretty hilarious that I have to play it just for the experience. I don't have my Complete Warrior on me right now so I can't look at it, but still, I gotta play one at least once. I have a theory that the only reason this class exists is that rage rhymes with mage. I'm not saying you can't play an arcane caster that's also a decent to good frontlines fighter, but going into a rage doesn't allow you the chance to cast spells, but maybe the class gives you some ability that let's you. I don't know. I haven't seen it.

I just want to know what's the best build for this. Yeah, I know this might not be a great class to PrC into, but I just want to do it once out of curiosity sake, maybe have a little fun roleplaying it, and the campaign I would do this in I'd make sure is less combat based and more RP.

Thanks.

[Doorhandle]

RAGE MAGE LOCATED:

PREPARE TO UNLEASH MAXIMUM RAAAAAAAAAGE. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20031116a&page=7)

[Zaq]

It's . . . well, it's a casting class in Complete Warrior. It's pretty much exactly as terrible as you'd expect, given that. I recommend you read the class and figure out what parts of it you want to optimize, since it's a tough nut to crack. (There's been some talk of making it an Iron Chef ingredient, if that tells you anything.) In short, it's a half-casting class that gives you an ability called "spell rage" a painfully small number of times per day. They can cast spells in this spell rage and get (rather tiny) bonuses on them. That's . . . pretty much all that spell rage does. Whether it gives you a separate pool of spell rages that are distinct from your normal rages, or whether it gives you the ability to turn a normal rage into a spell rage however many times per day, is . . . unclear.

Basically, read the class and see what you want out of it, then go from there.

[Tvtyrant]

I always thought a cool Prc would be a Barbarian/caster one where you automatically cast a number of buffs on yourself when you enter a rage, with the buffs time changing to the rage length. You would get one buff every other level, each one with a higher spell level. So 1 level 1, 1 level 2, etc. They would have to be spells with a range of personal, but they all activate on a standard action.

That would be a real rage mage :P

[Jude_H]

Maybe Bard 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 4/Abjurant Champion 1/Sublime Chord 1/RM 6/AC 3?
Full Rage Mage, 16 BA, level 8 spells.

Or Barbarian 2/Hexblade 4/Suel Arcanamach 4/Rage Mage 10?
Full Rage Mage, BA 16, level 5 spells, decent Charisma synergy between Hexblade's saves, Arcanamach's casting, and maybe an Intimidating Rage+Dark companion debuff routine?

Or you could grab the level 1 ability and drop. The other class features come too late at the cost of more and more CL. You could probably work RM 2 into quite a few gishes without it biting you too hard.

Barbarian 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1/Rage Mage 1/Abjurant Champion 5/RM 1/EK 6, for instance, wouldn't be too bad.

[Dr.Epic]

Maybe Bard 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 4/Abjurant Champion 1/Sublime Chord 1/RM 6/AC 3?
Full Rage Mage, 16 BA, level 8 spells.

Or Barbarian 2/Hexblade 4/Suel Arcanamach 4/Rage Mage 10?
Full Rage Mage, BA 16, level 5 spells, decent Charisma synergy between Hexblade's saves, Arcanamach's casting, and maybe an Intimidating Rage+Dark companion debuff routine?

Or you could grab the level 1 ability and drop. The other class features come too late at the cost of more and more CL. You could probably work RM 2 into quite a few gishes without it biting you too hard.

Barbarian 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1/Rage Mage 1/Abjurant Champion 5/RM 1/EK 6, for instance, wouldn't be too bad.

Meh, I kind of want to go the full 10 levels in this one.

[Zaq]

If you're just looking for the flavor, Champion of Gwynharwyf is a divine casty-barbarian who can cast while raging, and Runescarred Berserker is similar. (Champion of Gwynharwyf is in Book of Exalted Deeds, and Runescarred Berserker is in Unapproachable East.)

That said, if it's just the name that appeals to you . . . well, I can respect that. (Of course, I would argue that "Champion of Gwynharwyf" is almost as awesome a name, just because you get to say "Gwynharwyf" a lot.)

[Dr.Epic]

That said, if it's just the name that appeals to you . . . well, I can respect that. (Of course, I would argue that "Champion of Gwynharwyf" is almost as awesome a name, just because you get to say "Gwynharwyf" a lot.)

Yeah, but it's not as stupid. I remember the first time I saw rage mage I started laughing!:smallbiggrin:

[Doorhandle]

Best of both worlds.

INVINCIBLE RAGE MAGE OF GWYNHARWYF!

[Rethmar]

Haha, go for it man. Throw optimization out the window, and have fun being ridiculous.

"I let out a primal scream and throw white-hot fire into your face."

[hex0]

I'd enter this as a Hexblade/Barbarian myself for the Mettle. Duskblade is decent entry too, especially with free Combat Casting.

You could do something weird and play a Kobold (web enhancement version) with Write of Greater Draconic Passage: Barbarian 3/Sneak attack Fighter 2/Dragon Devotee 5/Rage mage 10. :smallbiggrin:

But yeah it would be hard to optimize Rage Mage. Maybe in Gestalt.

[Grendus]

Barbarian 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 1/Rage Mage 1/Abjurant Champion 5/RM 1/EK 6, for instance, wouldn't be too bad.

Generally, you'd want to avoid Eldritch Knight unless you just had to have the BAB, the lost caster level, low hit dice, and lack of class features make it a middling gish PrC. I'd rather go Barbarian 1/Wizard 6/Spellsword 1/Rage Mage 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 5. Take Southern Magician if you're allowed (I think it's from a Faerun book) so you can use DMM with the Turn Undead uses you get from Sacred Exorcist. The only downside is you lose your last iterative, though if you're willing to look past it's faults and drop DMM you could replace Sacred Exorcist with Eldritch Knight. It's not a bad gish at all, especially if you can convince your DM to let you take Extra Rage and apply it towards your spell rages/day instead of your barbarian rages/day.

As for the Iron Chef suggestion... well, it wouldn't be that hard at all to optimize, just use it with a fast progression casting PrC. Boom, optimal use of all 10 levels, not too shabby.

[Dr.Epic]

Best of both worlds.

INVINCIBLE RAGE MAGE OF GWYNHARWYF!

Too long.

@hex0: yeah, maybe I'll check out hexblade.

[Kaje]

I've been looking into rage mage as a way to enhance a gish's buffs. Take the suel arcanamach. It can buff itself, but even with a way to persist its spells (spelldancer, probably) its caster level is crap so those buffs are easily dispelled. Spellrage makes your caster level = your hit dice so I figure this guy could dance for a few rounds, activate spellrage, cast a buff, then maybe have enough rounds to dance-cast another buff before the rage runs out. It's something anyway.

[Big Fau]

I always thought a cool Prc would be a Barbarian/caster one where you automatically cast a number of buffs on yourself when you enter a rage, with the buffs time changing to the rage length. You would get one buff every other level, each one with a higher spell level. So 1 level 1, 1 level 2, etc. They would have to be spells with a range of personal, but they all activate on a standard action.

That would be a real rage mage :P

So, Negi Springfield post Rakan Fight?



@OP: The class in CW is, in all honesty, about as bad as the Samurai presented in the same book. It's a 5/10 advancement PrC with Medium BAB and a d8 HD. The hit to Caster Level is mitigated by Spell Rage, but only for 3+Con/Rage, and only 3/day. However, you lose a huge amount just to enter the PrC, and it gives very little back.

You need to be at least 6th level (Barb 3/Wiz 3) to even enter, so you are very weak until you get Spell Rage (and even after that, you are only marginally useful 1/day). Your BAB is going to be shot, your HP will be really low and you can't wear that much armor, and your spells are going to be too weak to matter when you finish the PrC.

I heavily recommend the Duskblade as an alternative. You can flavor it as the same thing (and even have a spell that mimics Rage), and is mechanically more efficient.

[Eldariel]

The only remotely useful ability of the class in addition to Spell Rage is the 7th level free Quicken (on a 4th level or lower spell...). So...yeah. The only build that can get that and 9s without excessive work is the Barb 1/Bard 4/Rage Mage 5/Sublime Chord 2/Rage Mage +3/Abjurant Champion 5

This gets you:
1 + 3 + 6 + 1 + 5 = 16 BAB
4 + 4 + 2 + 5 = 15 CL (fixable with Practiced Spellcaster and Spell Rage)
9th level spells from Sublime Chord

You do need to use Versatile Spellcaster entry or similar for Sublime Chord so it's not pretty, but it works. You only get Rage Mage 8 this way; getting Rage Mage 10 would cost you 9s and the 4th iterative at the end of your career pretty much no matter what (this is short of body switch/HD increase shenanigans).

Rage Mage 10 also gives you nothing of substance; Tenser's Transformation is a weak spell even if you can cast under it (just get Divine Power through any source if you want that) and you can just pick up Extra Rage instead of levels for more Spell Rage. Tireless Rage...meh, whatever. It shouldn't come up unless something goes wrong.

[Flickerdart]

I had a Rage Mage build worked out before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189744) that maximized the silliness by sharing your Rage with a mount.

[hex0]

Rage Mage suffers a bit like Arcane Trickster does. You get some of the features of Barbarian or Rogue, but lower BAB, Skills, HP...

Would boosting Rage Mage to full BAB be too much?

[Seerow]

It's . . . well, it's a casting class in Complete Warrior. It's pretty much exactly as terrible as you'd expect, given that. I recommend you read the class and figure out what parts of it you want to optimize, since it's a tough nut to crack. (There's been some talk of making it an Iron Chef ingredient, if that tells you anything.) In short, it's a half-casting class that gives you an ability called "spell rage" a painfully small number of times per day. They can cast spells in this spell rage and get (rather tiny) bonuses on them. That's . . . pretty much all that spell rage does. Whether it gives you a separate pool of spell rages that are distinct from your normal rages, or whether it gives you the ability to turn a normal rage into a spell rage however many times per day, is . . . unclear.

Basically, read the class and see what you want out of it, then go from there.

This description makes me want to homebrew a Rage Mage fix. In fact, I'm going to go do that right now.

[Eldariel]

Rage Mage suffers a bit like Arcane Trickster does. You get some of the features of Barbarian or Rogue, but lower BAB, Skills, HP...

Would boosting Rage Mage to full BAB be too much?

It'd be a Spellsword with less advantageous placement for the casting progression then. It still wouldn't be good.

Full BAB and 7/10 casting and maybe. Full BAB and 8/10 and it'd be playable. Full BAB and 9/10 and it'd be solid. Make it 8/10 and make the class features more interesting (e.g. the Rage Buff "Contingency" idea is pretty awesome - and seriously, it's not hard to come up with awesome stuff an angry mage warrior could do) and we're talking. How about a Righteous Might on the capstone instead? Or hell, Giant Size? Now there's a buff worth casting.

[hex0]

It'd be a Spellsword with less advantageous placement for the casting progression then. It still wouldn't be good.

Full BAB and 7/10 casting and maybe. Full BAB and 8/10 and it'd be playable. Full BAB and 9/10 and it'd be solid.

Maybe stack or 1/2 stack Rage Mage to get higher level rages and more rages per day?

[Eldariel]

Maybe stack or 1/2 stack Rage Mage to get higher level rages and more rages per day?

½ casting classes don't work. You need to increase that for it to be playable in any way.

[Quietus]

½ casting classes don't work. You need to increase that for it to be playable in any way.

Think they meant 1/2 of its levels as barb levels for gaining Indomitable Will, Greater Rage, etc.

[Tvtyrant]

So, Negi Springfield post Rakan Fight?


If I knew who that was, I could give you a better answer. For now it is: maybe?

[hex0]

Think they meant 1/2 of its levels as barb levels for gaining Indomitable Will, Greater Rage, etc.

Yes. Like Champion of Gwynharwyf. Rage Mage should be at that level of power...imho near that level of power.

Stack for rage, full bab, 7/10 casting instead. Is it too much?

[Big Fau]

If I knew who that was, I could give you a better answer. For now it is: maybe?

Unfortunately, the OVA for that part of the series hasn't been finished. But it does fit the idea.

[Treblain]

RAGE MAGE! is terrible... compared to other casters and other gishes. Your basic sorcerer/barb/RAGE MAGE! is still better than a fighter or monk. With the power of optimization on your side, you'll be fine. Duskblade/Barbarian sounds cool.

That said, it's probably frustrating as hell to play. Houserule that taking Extra Rage will give you more Spellrages, so you don't run out of spellrages quickly. Assume that other rage feats apply to it, too. As I interpret the rules, you can enter a spellrage and a normal rage at the same time. As long as you're in the spellrage too, you can cast normally while raging.

[Seerow]

This description makes me want to homebrew a Rage Mage fix. In fact, I'm going to go do that right now.

If anybody's curious, I finished my spur of the moment Rage Mage retool. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216177)

[Starbuck_II]

I would think a Fix is easy:
7/10 casting
Spell Rage is just an added ability to normal Rage: removing restriction/extra bonuses. no need to limit it to x/day more than that.
Increase reduce spell failure to happen more than once
Don't limit cap stone to 1/day (Tenser isn't that great). Maybe Con mod/day (min 1).
remove Combat casting as Preq.

Edit: I like yours Serror, but it is a self buff only.

The theme is raging and casting on others I think.

[NNescio]

The theme is raging and casting on others I think.

"SHUT UP AND SIT IN THE CORNER, PUNY LAWS OF PHYSICS!!!"