High Wisdom character...with ADHD tendencies...is it possible?

[Maho-Tsukai]

As the title asks. A friend of mine recently got into a debate with some other players because she wants to make a Cleric character who is borderline ADHD. The issue? Clerics require high wisdom...some other people where like "ADHD and high wisdom can't ever be found in the same character." I told her to just petition for the third party Lost Traditions feat so she can play a Cleric who casts off of a stat other then wisdom, but she is stubborn and wants to try to argue the point before resorting to third party feats. I told her that frankly I don't see a strong argument on her side other then "It's a game, I want to have fun and denying me this concept is denying me fun.." She tried to convince me otherwise by brining up Naruto Uzumaki as an example of this kind of character....but I'm still not sure how to bolster her argument...which is why I've come to you..

I want your opinions....can you have a high-wis character with ADHD or ADHD-esc tendencies? If so, what are the justifications for both high wis and the ADHD parts of their personality?

[Urpriest]

Well high Wis means better Spot and Listen, which seems to translate into less ADHD.

That said, I'd say it would work with a Kender-esque personality. Basically, you're high Wis because you have enough common sense to appreciate the value of smelling the flowers. Your worldview is objectively better and makes you happier, and more enlightened (enlightenment themes of Wis are most of the reason Clerics need high Wis), because rather than being fixated on the trivial dangers that vex your companions you take time to enjoy whatever the moment brings. Sort of an in-tune with the universe persona.

[AmberVael]

Wisdom is about intuition, instinct, and common sense. A high wisdom character with ADHD would be an unusual character, but I don't think it is impossible.

I think the idea would be to focus on intuition and instinct. Maybe they don't pay attention or focus on things they should, but they manage to make things work out anyway due to improvisation and flashes of insight. They might be hyperactive and have difficulty focusing their attention on something... but in part just because they can pick things up so easily that everyone else is dragging along in comparison. They might have a hard time actively keeping watch, but when their subconscious picks up on some weird sound, their focus might redirect to whatever they see or hear, thus explaining their nonetheless good spot/listen checks.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about ADHD though, so whether this would be a truly ADHD character is something I'm not sure of. But I don't think all high Wisdom characters have to be serene and in touch with their surroundings. That's just one avenue.

[Spiryt]

Your worldview is objectively better and makes you happier, and more enlightened (enlightenment themes of Wis are most of the reason Clerics need high Wis), because rather than being fixated on the trivial dangers .

Never really understood it that way, aside from Belkar jokes - FR, for example are literally crowded with high level, high wisdom evil clerics and stuff, who are grim, cynical, paranoid and evil like one modderfooger.

I try to detach mentality and personality from level of mental stats as often as it's possible personally.

I think that ADHD can indeed be pulled out too -


They might have a hard time actively keeping watch, but when their subconscious picks up on some weird sound, their focus might redirect to whatever they see or hear, thus explaining their nonetheless good spot/listen checks.

They're just ridiculously alert and tense, even though they absolutely cannot stay focused indeed.

Forced to focus, face stress, think about thoroughly etc. character can just become angry and frighteningly determined to be done with it as fast as possible, which can in fact result in surprising will power.

[BlueInc]

Consider letting her play an Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle); I think a very charismatic, ADHD, cursed-yet-blessed by the gods character would be great to play.

Hmm, re-reading your post, it sounds like this isn't your campaign to decide.

Consider this: Having a high Wisdom means you're in tune with things other people don't notice, right? The power to reach beyond the mundane and make connections that other’s can’t is sort of the definition of how divine spellcasters get their power.

However, this constant connection to things others can’t perceive means that she has a hard time sorting through what’s important to others and what she feels intensely. If she worships a water god, hearing the spirits of underground rivers and the rain that will fall tomorrow might be more immediate and engaging then her party members telling her to not wander off, for example. If she worships a god of war, then the echoes of battle cries from a nearby graveyard where a skirmish was fought or the musical clanking of her own chainmail might distract her from reading a book.

ADHD character might have a low Intelligence because Intelligence determines how quickly you learn; because she’s constantly fidgeting and distracted, she can’t apply herself to learning new skills as well.

Her high Wisdom means she’s so in touch with the “other” that she doesn’t always see the drab reality that other do; she sees the world through the eyes of her patron.

I played a high Wis/low Int monk like this in a campaign once, and it worked out fine.

[JaronK]

As someone with ADHD, I find this entire thread somewhat insulting and ignorant.

ADHD is a way of perceiving the world. It involves quickly getting bored and switching attention away from things that, for one reason or another, are judged unimportant, while having a laser like focus on things that are important. This is a mentality better suited to adventurers than the "normal" way of thinking... it just doesn't work well in large classrooms and office spaces where you have to focus on one thing you may already understand or not need for long periods of time.

There's nothing stopping an ADHD character from having genius level intellect and impressive common sense and perception. If anything, I'd rather have the guy who's good at ignoring superfluous details and focusing on what's important doing the observing for my group than some guy who's going to focus entirely on looking for traps in the road and fail to spot the ambush in the trees as a result. Likewise, the guy who will suddenly switch his attention from the guy he just killed to checking for ambushers is probably better than the one who will just sit there searching the guy for loot immediately because that's what he's focused on.

JaronK

[PersonMan]

ADHD is a way of perceiving the world. It involves quickly getting bored and switching attention away from things that, for one reason or another, are judged unimportant, while having a laser like focus on things that are important.

Yeah, this is the really big thing I've noticed with my brother, who may or may not(he's been diagnosed with 5 different things so far, so...) have ADHD. He hates being forced to do/focus on things he feels are unimportant, but will happily do one thing for hours on end if he enjoys it/finds it worth his time.

So, for a cleric you could say that the things they find important, and therefore worth putting hours and hours of concentration/hard work into are their religion and their surroundings. If you really want to be more eccentric, give them a completely random super-hobby, like, say bird watching. On watch, they keep their eyes and ears peeled for ANY SIGN of birds(especially their favorite kinds, if they have any), making them adept at seeing or hearing...well, anything.

[Xtomjames]

The first thing I have to ask is what does ADHD have to do with Wisdom as a score? Wisdom in general is about one's own personal knowledge and experience, versus Intelligence which is about factual or Book Knowledge.

In any case ADHD shouldn't have an affect on any of the ability scores, and would only give a minor penalty to the Concentration skill.

[CTrees]

The first thing that comes to mind, for me, is Blue and Orange Morality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) - priorities don't necessarily correspond to human normal, but that doesn't make them foolish. Take Fey - they're generally high wisdom (not necessarily their highest stat, but higher than the human average 10-11), and their behavior is often portrayed as similar to ADHD. They simply think in a slightly different way, and have different priorities as to what they should focus on (rather like JaronK was describing, albeit for different reasons).

[sonofzeal]

SQUIRREL! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg)

ADHD is not a lack of awareness or attention. It's an inability to regulate attention. Someone with very significant ADHD is often far more aware of their surroundings, and simply can't filter out the things they're not supposed to be paying attention to. A normal student is paying attention to the teacher's voice; an ADHD student is paying attention to the teacher's voice, to the clouds moving outside, to the feelings of their jeans against their leg, to the snickering of Bob two rows back, to that faint smell of tuna they can't place, and to everything else too.

There's one theory that ADHD was actually a functional adaptation back in our hunter-gatherer days. People who had ADHD would be the hunters, with their higher energy levels and higher, not lower, situational awareness. Someone without ADHD could be paying attention to one thing, say the tracks on the ground, and miss the rustle of leaves off to their left. With ADHD, the inability to filter means you're processing more of those subtle little signs, since they aren't getting filtered out the same way.

If anything, an ADHD character should have higher spot and listen. Hence the Up clip at the beginning. Doug is ADHD, has high spot/listen, and expresses that spot/listen in a very ADHD way, namely by startling mid-sentence at shadows. Even in the middle of conversation, he's still processing all those little shadows and movements on his periphery... and occasionally misinterprets one as a squirrel, but whatever. He's still likely got higher spot/listen than the other two he's with.

[Morph Bark]

As someone with ADHD, I find this entire thread somewhat insulting and ignorant.

ADHD is a way of perceiving the world. It involves quickly getting bored and switching attention away from things that, for one reason or another, are judged unimportant, while having a laser like focus on things that are important. This is a mentality better suited to adventurers than the "normal" way of thinking... it just doesn't work well in large classrooms and office spaces where you have to focus on one thing you may already understand or not need for long periods of time.

There's nothing stopping an ADHD character from having genius level intellect and impressive common sense and perception. If anything, I'd rather have the guy who's good at ignoring superfluous details and focusing on what's important doing the observing for my group than some guy who's going to focus entirely on looking for traps in the road and fail to spot the ambush in the trees as a result. Likewise, the guy who will suddenly switch his attention from the guy he just killed to checking for ambushers is probably better than the one who will just sit there searching the guy for loot immediately because that's what he's focused on.

JaronK

This.

A character with ADHD would be most likely to have a penalty in Concentration, a skill which is not keyed to Wisdom. Potentially need to make Will saves to keep on going with extended skill checks (like in the case of very-hard-to-pick locks or -disable traps, for instance). Something like that.

[Gotterdammerung]

As someone with ADHD, I find this entire thread somewhat insulting and ignorant.

ADHD is a way of perceiving the world. It involves quickly getting bored and switching attention away from things that, for one reason or another, are judged unimportant, while having a laser like focus on things that are important. This is a mentality better suited to adventurers than the "normal" way of thinking... it just doesn't work well in large classrooms and office spaces where you have to focus on one thing you may already understand or not need for long periods of time.

There's nothing stopping an ADHD character from having genius level intellect and impressive common sense and perception. If anything, I'd rather have the guy who's good at ignoring superfluous details and focusing on what's important doing the observing for my group than some guy who's going to focus entirely on looking for traps in the road and fail to spot the ambush in the trees as a result. Likewise, the guy who will suddenly switch his attention from the guy he just killed to checking for ambushers is probably better than the one who will just sit there searching the guy for loot immediately because that's what he's focused on.

JaronK

Yep, i pretty much came in here to say ^this^, but JaronK already said it.
Insulting and ignorant.

[only1doug]

as has been stated by others ADHD isn't incompatable with High Wisdom.

Wisdom (Wis)

Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score.

ADHD has three subtypes: Predominantly hyperactive-impulsive; Predominantly inattentive; Combined hyperactive-impulsive and inattentive.

hyperactive-impulsive
Hyperactivity:

Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.
Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).
Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.
Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
Often talks excessively. Nothing there is incompatable with wisdom

Impulsiveness:

Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.
Often has trouble waiting one's turn.
Often interrupts or intrudes on others (example: butts into conversations or games). Nothing there is incompatable with wisdom (incompatable with charisma maybe)

inattentive
Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
Often has trouble organizing activities.
Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (such as toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
Is often easily distracted.
Often forgetful in daily activities. None of this is incompatable with high wisdom (note: Does not seem to =/= does not)

[flabort]

So what JaronK, and Doctor sonofzeal are saying, is that a person with ADHD would have a bonus to Wis, and extra ranks in spot/listen, but a penalty to Con?

I feel sad whenever people make fun of the... mentally superior/different. I have Asperger's Syndrom. Like ADHD, or High Functioning Autism, or any other "syndrome" or "Disorder", it too is just a different way of looking at the world. When I was young, my parents moved me to a different school because I was picked on. A lot. Just because I was min-maxed. So I had a lower Wis? I got more skill points.
Actually, reading their descriptions of ADHD, Asperger's Syndrom is a complete inverse: I focus on ONE THING, when normal people would be paying attention to more. I'd be listening to the teacher's voice, but not his words, or vice versa, being unable to spread out my focus. Right now, I'm focused on the Forums, to exclusion of all else (apparently even my cat, who I just noticed isn't in the same room any more).

OK, so it's funny when we pretend to be mentally unstable. It's still hurtful to the people we're making fun of (whether we're aware of it or not), and I've become... sensitive to that, when people make fun of others. When I saw sonofzeal link a youtube clip titled "SQUIRREL!", I felt a little upset. I don't have ADHD, but I felt insulted anyways. He said he linked it for a reason (Actually a very good point), and I forgive him, but until I read the third paragraph, I was slightly insulted that he would make fun of us min-maxers.

[John Cribati]

So what JaronK, and Doctor sonofzeal are saying, is that a person with ADHD would have a bonus to Wis, and extra ranks in spot/listen, but a penalty to Con?

No. Just a Penalty to Concentration Checks in general

[sonofzeal]

So what JaronK, and Doctor sonofzeal are saying, is that a person with ADHD would have a bonus to Wis, and extra ranks in spot/listen, but a penalty to Con?
No Wis/Con change, but a +2 to Spot/Listen and a -4 to Concentration sounds appropriate.



OK, so it's funny when we pretend to be mentally unstable. It's still hurtful to the people we're making fun of (whether we're aware of it or not), and I've become... sensitive to that, when people make fun of others. When I saw sonofzeal link a youtube clip titled "SQUIRREL!", I felt a little upset. I don't have ADHD, but I felt insulted anyways. He said he linked it for a reason (Actually a very good point), and I forgive him, but until I read the third paragraph, I was slightly insulted that he would make fun of us min-maxers.
If it makes a difference, I'm diagnosed ADHD myself. I wasn't trying to insult anyone with that clip, just as I'm sure Pixar wasn't trying to either (although it bears a striking resemblance to the tired lightbulb/bicycle joke if you know it).

In any case, I do apologize for any offence given.

[Lord Bingo]

I see that there has already been some brilliant feedback to the question of this thread, so I only have little to add:

As a GM I find it important not to let my players stats dictate how they should play a character, nor disbar them from pursuing sub-optimal career paths relative thereto, as long he or she has fun with it and it does not ruin the game for the other players and me. I see no reason why a high WIS should prevent someone from playing a character with ADHD.

[Wings of Peace]

Sure. Concentration is linked to constitution not wisdom. :smallcool:

[flabort]

If it makes a difference, I'm diagnosed ADHD myself. I wasn't trying to insult anyone with that clip, just as I'm sure Pixar wasn't trying to either (although it bears a striking resemblance to the tired lightbulb/bicycle joke if you know it).

In any case, I do apologize for any offence given.

Yeah, I know the joke. It was, like, the third or fourth joke I ever learned, right after "How do you know a blond has been using your computer", and "How do you drown a blond"... a good majority of my relatives are blond, including my dad and brother. I sorely regret ever repeating them. Especially since one of my cousins, who's half my age, can beat me up, and her sisters are even stronger.

Granted, I learned those at an early age, before I even knew what a blond really was. Someone with yellow-to-gold-to-white hair, not some extremely stupid breed of dog (no offense to anyone, blonds, hairs, or dogs, meant). And long before I realized that making fun of people was wrong. Which is something I still re-learn every day.

I'm sure no offense was meant by your post. :smallsmile:

Wow, there's a lot of people saying they've been diagnosed. It's really something I guess you just don't notice people having in most situations. Not something you would think about normally, either. Huh.
The more you know, I guess. Thanks for the education.

[Quietus]

I would just like to say that many of the posts in this thread have given me a very different, and much less demeaning, view of those who have ADHD. It's one thing to try and understand it in a vacuum, but hearing things about it from those who suffer from it helps give a very different perspective. Thanks guys.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, all of this has been helpful to building my argument as well as frankly I'm on my girlfriend's side on this. The whole point of this this thread was to find a way to bolster my girlfriend's argument and you've given me a lot to work with. So I thank you all for the help on this....

Also, if none of you realized, she based this character on me.... I have it myself and my girlfriend considers me high-ish wisdom...and she knows how obsessed with necromancy I am. So needless to say I've kinda been on her side with this and frankly what you have given me here actually gives me an argument for her to use. I guess that's wear a lot of my issues come from...some of the people I game with are very OCD about RPing their stats as they are and as a result I have become very conditioned to this myself out of necessity. When I FINALLY get my own group going I'll be happy to finally be free of that mode of gaming and my own group IS slowly forming...

[Dr_S]

No Wis/Con change, but a +2 to Spot/Listen and a -4 to Concentration sounds appropriate.

Looking up at only1doug's post, which is incredibly informative imo, I don't think there is a set rule as there are different variations.

I.E. I personally find that I (who also am a member of the club) am a hybrid of the "inattentive" and "impulsive" variants was surprised that anyone who was claiming to have ADHD would ever think that a bonus to perception would be appropriate. In fact I was diagnosed later in life despite my parents suspecting all along that I had it, so I remember a lot of the testing clearly. One of the tests I took involved words being spoken over the sound of background chatter increasing in volume until I could no longer distinguish the words.

If modelling a character after myself I'd absolutely have taken this character flaw: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#inattentive

i'm also terrible at searching for things and it's because I'm not mentally able to parse the input I'm receiving in a timely manner.

So I'd say that the rules (if any) that the OP is looking for are dependent on the type that the player wants to play which I guess based on his latest post depends on which of the types he considers himself.

I think the inattentive "trait" listed in the srd fits pretty well also for some as the concentration bit you were discussing. -4 on complex skill checks, but +1 on simple skill checks for the same skill.

I can see someone who is hyperactive also being "hyper aware" though now that I think about it, so really it depends on how the player is playing it.

[Icestorm245]

Regardless of what people are saying about ADHD vs. Wisdom, the point of the matter is no DM should limit character concept in regards to personality and roleplay value. In the end, having a cleric with ADHD would have very little effect on anything besides enriching a player's value roleplay wise. Seeing characters with no personality is just saddening.

[TriForce]

seems to me that a char with ADHD and a high wisdom would have some or all of the above named habits ( like short attention span and/or a highly impulsive nature) but still have a great amount of common sense, willpower and general attention to details others missed, these things are not mutually exclusive in my vieuw so in short: YES a char with ADHD can have a high wisdom, and since he would deviate from the cliche of the calm and collected wise old guy, id encourage it.


note: i do not have ADHD, nor do i have a lot of experience with people who have. my general vieuw of the disorder is that its just something that makes people more impulsive and have less focus for doing one thing for long.

[JackRackham]

Yep, i pretty much came in here to say ^this^, but JaronK already said it.
Insulting and ignorant.
Why is it so insulting for people to misunderstand something they likely have no personal experience with, that is portrayed improperly in the media, that sometimes seems to be misunderstood even by experts and that operates on something as subtle and individual as human perception and cognition? Personally, I'd be pretty surprised if a casual conversation amongst people who didn't have ADHD was right on the money.

I mean, sure correct the misconceptions, but no need to be offended at something so obviously unintentional.

[JackRackham]

Case-in-Point for me:

as has been stated by others ADHD isn't incompatable with High Wisdom.

Wisdom (Wis)

Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score.

ADHD has three subtypes: Predominantly hyperactive-impulsive; Predominantly inattentive; Combined hyperactive-impulsive and inattentive.

hyperactive-impulsive
Hyperactivity:

Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.
Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).
Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.
Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
Often talks excessively. Nothing there is incompatable with wisdom

Impulsiveness:

Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.
Often has trouble waiting one's turn.
Often interrupts or intrudes on others (example: butts into conversations or games). Nothing there is incompatable with wisdom (incompatable with charisma maybe)

inattentive
Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
Often has trouble organizing activities.
Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (such as toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
Is often easily distracted.
Often forgetful in daily activities. None of this is incompatable with high wisdom (note: Does not seem to =/= does not)

Now, most of this description sounds like me, but I suspect it sounds like a lot of people (1/2?). These are pretty common traits in terms of observed behavior. Where is the line, exactly? I always assumed the distinction was largely functional, resting on whether a behavior was impeding one's ability to function in society, but lately I know people for whom these tendencies were never noticeably limiting have been seeking treatment, as they feel that they've been operating at less than their full potential.

I personally excelled in school. I was never in trouble for being too unfocused or hyper or loud (almost, though). I definitely never had trouble focusing on my classes - they were very interesting and the people around me were not...more likely I wouldn't notice when they were talking to me.

So, ADHD or not? Who knows really? Is there a physiological test or is it entirely observational? What's the difference, while I'm at it, between ADD and ADHD?

My point is, there are just a ton of questions that most people (including me and I'm usually well-informed on almost everything) don't know the answers to, so why take offense? Educate and move on. ALSO, there is NOTHING wrong with making fun of people.

[JaronK]

Why is it so insulting for people to misunderstand something they likely have no personal experience with, that is portrayed improperly in the media, that sometimes seems to be misunderstood even by experts and that operates on something as subtle and individual as human perception and cognition? Personally, I'd be pretty surprised if a casual conversation amongst people who didn't have ADHD was right on the money.

I mean, sure correct the misconceptions, but no need to be offended at something so obviously unintentional.

If the topic had been "Re: High Intelligence character...with black skin...is it possible?" would it have been more obvious? The answer is, of course, yes... the two things are unrelated, but the question itself plays off a harmful stereotype (I don't mention being ADHD at work these days, since in the past doing so has in fact resulted in people making incorrect assessments of my competence rather suddenly after hearing it, even despite having worked with me for years). So yes, the question itself can be insulting, whether that's intended or not (I assumed not, which is why I brought it up so as to raise awareness). Likewise, why are we assuming ADHD has anything to do with morality (Blue and Orange)? That makes no sense at all.

With that said... the squirrel thing cracked me up. That resembles me far too much sometimes...

Really, ADHD would have no bearing on rules. Not even a Concentration penalty or spot/listen bonus... they'd be better at concentrating on things that interest them (including things like casting spells under dangerous situations) than most, but worse at concentrating when it's not obviously useful. They'd be better at randomly spotting something else when people's guards are down, but not as good at keeping watch when they'd rather be sleeping. So, just RP it and be done with it.

JaronK

[JackRackham]

If the topic had been "Re: High Intelligence character...with black skin...is it possible?" would it have been more obvious? The answer is, of course, yes... the two things are unrelated, but the question itself plays off a harmful stereotype (I don't mention being ADHD at work these days, since in the past doing so has in fact resulted in people making incorrect assessments of my competence rather suddenly after hearing it, even despite having worked with me for years). So yes, the question itself can be insulting, whether that's intended or not (I assumed not, which is why I brought it up so as to raise awareness). Likewise, why are we assuming ADHD has anything to do with morality (Blue and Orange)? That makes no sense at all.

With that said... the squirrel thing cracked me up. That resembles me far too much sometimes...

Really, ADHD would have no bearing on rules. Not even a Concentration penalty or spot/listen bonus... they'd be better at concentrating on things that interest them (including things like casting spells under dangerous situations) than most, but worse at concentrating when it's not obviously useful. They'd be better at randomly spotting something else when people's guards are down, but not as good at keeping watch when they'd rather be sleeping. So, just RP it and be done with it.

JaronK

Fair enough, I guess. I feel like racism requires willful ignorance anymore though, where not knowing enough something like ADHD is more understandable. Still, if you hadn't said anything, nobody would know there was a perception problem so w/e.

[Urpriest]

Yeah, all of this has been helpful to building my argument as well as frankly I'm on my girlfriend's side on this. The whole point of this this thread was to find a way to bolster my girlfriend's argument and you've given me a lot to work with. So I thank you all for the help on this....

Also, if none of you realized, she based this character on me.... I have it myself and my girlfriend considers me high-ish wisdom...and she knows how obsessed with necromancy I am. So needless to say I've kinda been on her side with this and frankly what you have given me here actually gives me an argument for her to use. I guess that's wear a lot of my issues come from...some of the people I game with are very OCD about RPing their stats as they are and as a result I have become very conditioned to this myself out of necessity. When I FINALLY get my own group going I'll be happy to finally be free of that mode of gaming and my own group IS slowly forming...

...

This is unrelated to this current thread.

But it has bearing to every single other thread you have ever made on this forum.

If, as you say, your girlfriend has been saying all this time that you're high Wis...

WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING THAT YOU CAN'T PLAY HIGH WIS VILLAINS?

...

Yes I realize that what makes a fun character can often be diametrically opposed to one's own personality. Yes I can see myriad reasons why you would rather play villains as cackling madmen of a sort that you presumably are not. Nevertheless, can't you see just a little smidgen of irony here? Just a little?

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yes, there is plenty of irony and I have seen it for a long time. I just choose not to acknowledge it openly because I don't care much about it and frankly for a few other reasons. Mainly because, as you said, I don't usually like playing characters who are too much like myself. However, there is also the reason that I generally tend to come off as low-normal wis to most people online because I find that acting like an idiot to be more entertaining and my personal friends have enough problems that they come to me with to keep me busy....So I feign lower then what I have wisdom online sans with a few select people because I find it gives me less stress to deal with overall.

In the past I actually didnt' do this and back in my days of Forum RPing I basically did half the work of the staff, acted as an unofficial adviser on basically every matter the staff was concerned with and was brought into, among other things, handle personal issues of members...including stopping somebody from killing themselves. This is wear the stress comes from. People tend to overload me with requests for help/advice, many times in areas I have no expertise in and some even come to me with rather deep issues that many times I'm not qualified to remedy(My girlfriend and some RL friends regularly treats me as if I am am a professional psychologist, coming to me with deep mental problems, despite not having ANY training in that area.).

I generally don't mind helping others with their problems but doing it for people in RL and my GF is enough for me and trust me, in those past situations wear I was bombarded with people coming to me for advice I did try to say "stop" and they never really listened. Not to say others would not, but that's why I feign low wisdom until I can be assured that the past won't repeat itself.

But enough on that. I got what I wanted out of this thread and I thank you all for your contributions to my argument.

[Hazard_Pay]

Agree with JaronK's post.

I 'suffer' mild ADHD.

I find if it's something i love or am interested in i can focus on it so sharply that i become an expert on the subject, or in the case of skills, few can beat me at the given contest.
However, if it's boring, mundane or tedious, I become completely disinterested, and this in turn affects people's outlook on my capability.
(or perceived lack thereof)
In the case of conversations it also makes folks think i may not care about what they are saying... this is not the case, more likely, I have grasped the concept already and am ready to either get on with the project or talk about something else.

ADHD is both a blessing and a curse.

Imho, give the player a roleplay 'feat' where she's got a favored skill and she's up +2 on checks with that , but -2 on concentration or diplomacy (both?) checks.

Increase the bonus/penalty depending on how severe the ADHD is.

Also, tell the player that's arguing the point with her to get to know the subject a little more before he/she starts arguing about it. :smallannoyed:


Edit: Call it a 'Background' [ADHD - Persons with ADHD are sharply focused on particular subjects of interest, but are unable to focus on other mundane tasks. Character is up +2 on skill checks on their favored subject, but -2 on concentration or diplomacy checks.]

[Hazard_Pay]

I see that there has already been some brilliant feedback to the question of this thread, so I only have little to add:

As a GM I find it important not to let my players stats dictate how they should play a character, nor disbar them from pursuing sub-optimal career paths relative thereto, as long he or she has fun with it and it does not ruin the game for the other players and me. I see no reason why a high WIS should prevent someone from playing a character with ADHD.

And yeah ^this^ too.

We're here to have fun aren't we?

Does her desire to play an ADHD Cleric really bug that other player SO MUCH that it interferes with his/her ability to have fun at the game?

Also, the squirrel clip was funny and relevant... as a mild sufferer of ADHD i find myself easily distracted by things that interest me. Chasing squirrels is interesting to dogs. I don't feel this clip to be insulting in the slightest.