Mystic Ranger Swift Hunter Build [PEACH]

[Nepenthe]

A continuation of this old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188282) (sorta).

I'm looking for advice on this Mystic Ranger build. It will enter play at Level 9 and hopefully continue through 20. The spoiler contains my stats (25 point buy) and a break down of feats and ACFs by level. I didn't list standard class features. Also, I was very tired as I put this together, so it's very possible I missed something big. Please point out if anything is invalid.


STR 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 8
Mystic Ranger 3 (DR 336)/Scout 4 (CAd)/Mystic Ranger X

Flaw -
Flaw -
Human - Magical Training (PGtF)
01 - Practiced Spellcaster(CAr)
02 - Arcane Hunter (CM)
03 - Power Attack (Strong Arm Combat Style [DR 326]); Improved Bullrush
04 - +1 STR
05 -
06 - Sword of the Arcane Order (CV)
07 - Swift Hunter (CS)
08 - +1 STR
09 - Shock Trooper (CW)
10 -
11 - Improved Sunder (Improved Combat Style)
12 - Favored Enemy (Magical Beast); Leap Attack (CAd); +1 INT
13 -
14 -
15 - Combat Brute (CW)
16 - Great Cleave (Combat Mastery); +1 WIS
17 -
18 - Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoid); Open Feat
19 -
20 -
As you can see, I haven't picked my last feat yet. My DM also allows two flaws, but I'm not sure if I want to use them. There's also a few dead levels at the end. Does anyone have suggestions for a good 2-3 level prestige class dip?

This build is pretty dependent on equipment, which I'm not thrilled about. A Periapt of Wisdom is a must. I'm also going to buy a few pearls of power. And a Wand Chambered greatsword spear (just realized I only have simple weapon proficiency) for wands of Rhino's Rush or Wraithstrike.

I could also use advice on which arcane spells to pick for my precious few spell slots.

[Godskook]

Does your DM use fractional BAB progressions? If not, that kinda affects things on a melee build.

A cloistered cleric dip will give you access to functional travel devotion, allowing you to trigger skirmish consistently all day, every day.

If your DM allows it, Solitary Hunter is a handy way to dodge your animal companion, assuming you haven't done so already.

A Barbarian dip for pounce can also be useful, as an alternative to the cleric dip.

[Coidzor]

Mystic Ranger does duck the Animal Companion already from what I recall.

So you're wanting to buff up and then do a pounce-charge to activate your skirmish, eh? Can you crib from PF at all? IIRC, there's a bit there that gives natural weapon combat styles, which are great with sources of precision damage dice. Failing that, I'd suggest stacking Wild Shape Ranger on there for the extra natural weapons you can grab. Or Totemist (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=551.0) 2. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215723)

An alternative arrangement, but still feat intensive, is combining Robilar's Gambit with the Riposte ACF (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161563). Robilar's gambit really does beg for miss chances and reach. And depending upon how (Greater) Mirror Image (PHB2) is interpreted, there's some fun there too... Works better with strongheart halfling or a way of getting lol-reach.

A flaw can get you the Militia feat which gives you back your martial weapon proficiencies you lost so you can get a reach weapon and an executioner's mace if you really want to fight with melee weapons. Or you can Greater Mighty Wallop(Races of the Dragon) a stick.

Why are you going Scout 4? (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html)
Observation: As you can see, ranger 16 is a rather bad level, and that's why ranger 16/scout 4 is a bad choice. You gain far better benefits by going ranger 15/Scout 5, Ranger 15/Scout 3/xxx 2 or Ranger 15/Scout 4/xxx 1 (if you have no problem with favored classes, or multiclassing penalties don't apply).

[Nepenthe]

Fractional BAB is out. I'm trying to avoid multi-class penalties, but it might be worth it to work in some Barbarian. My Charisma kinda sucks for Cleric.

Yes, Mystic Ranger already ditches Animal Companion. And no Pathfinder allowed. I only took the fourth level of Scout for the bonus feat so I could get SotAO at 6, and honestly didn't even look at Scout's level 5 ability. Evasion is definitely better than nothing. I'll definitely do that unless I find a better dip.

(I'm starting to wonder if I should even go SotAO... I just really wanted Dancing Chains for this character for story reasons.)

Thanks for posting that handbook! I'll be sure to read through it when I have some time.

[Darrin]

As you can see, I haven't picked my last feat yet. My DM also allows two flaws, but I'm not sure if I want to use them.


Travel Devotion is worth picking up a flaw, particularly if you're not getting Pounce somewhere else. I'd recommend Shaky or Poor Reflexes. For your last feat... Arcane Strike might be nice. Otherwise, Minor Shapeshift.

I'd also recommend switching your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favored enemies to undead, constructs, and elementals. Normally, these are immune to skirmish damage, but Swift Hunter bypasses this. (Keep a wand of vinestrike handy for plants.)

I also like to grab the Spiritual Connection ACF (CChamp) and Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape).



There's also a few dead levels at the end. Does anyone have suggestions for a good 2-3 level prestige class dip?


Take two levels of Highland Stalker for +1d6 skirmish damage.

Actually, with Sneak Attack Fighter and 4 levels of Highland Stalker, you can get Swift Hunter at ECL 9 with full BAB:

Mystic Ranger 4/SA Fighter 1/Highland Stalker 4/Mystic Ranger +11

Other dips... well, Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian fixes the weapon proficiency problem, and gives you Pounce and possibly Whirling Frenzy. A two-level Barbarian dip with Wolf Totem gives you Improved Trip.



I could also use advice on which arcane spells to pick for my precious few spell slots.

I recommend a staff: simple, double weapon, can be two-handed, and can accomodate two wand chambers. For our two wand chambers:

Blades of Fire (Spell Compendium, Rgr/Sor/Wiz 1). +1d8 fire damage to all your melee attacks. If you can add more attacks (unarmed strike, armor spikes, natural weapons), even better.

Instant of Power (Forge of War, Brd/Dru/Rgr 1). +4 enhancement bonus on your next attack, save, or damage roll. Never leave home without it.

More swift/immediate action spells:

Blade of Blood (PHBII, Sor/Wiz 1). Another good nova-damage spell.

Blockade (Complete Scoundrel, Rgr/Sor/Wis 1). You've got wood. Great for blocking off doors, preventing a charge, or create a +1 higher ground bonus.

Energy Surge, Lesser (PHBII, Sor/Wiz 2). A la carte +1d6 energy damage to all your attacks for 1 round.

Entangling Staff (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 4). Improved Grab, +8 grapple bonus, and 2d6 constrict damage. Great for locking down spellcasters.

Fly, Swift (Spell Compendium, Brd/Sor/Wis 2). A good "Get Out of Certain Death Free" card in certain situations, although a permanent flight speed (Dragonborn of Bahumat, Feathered Wings graft, Winged Mask) is much preferred.

Golemstrike/Vinestrike (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1, Dru/Rgr 1). Keep a couple wands handy in case those constructs and house plants get all uppity and in yo' biznez.

Haste, Swift (Spell Compendium, Rgr 2). Oh heck yes. Unlike other swift spells, this one lasts 1d4 rounds.

Hunter's Eye (PHBII, Rgr 2). +1d6 sneak attack for every 3 caster levels.

Kaupaer's Quickblast (Kaupaer's Quick Book (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), Sor/Wiz 1). When you must blast something but it's not your turn.

Master's Touch (Spell Compendium, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1). Throw this in a wand chamber and you can pick up something like a jovar or fullblade, which solves the simple weapon proficiency problem.

Necrotic Skull Bomb (Champions of Ruin, Sor/Wiz 5). Best. spell. name. EVER! Swift action enervation, 20' burst.

Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1). Get that charge off before your opponents close to melee range, or get your buffs up quickly.

Sudden Aegis (Forge of War, Sor/Wiz 3). DR 10/adamantine as an immediate action.

Ruin Delver's Fortune (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 4). Ok, so your Cha penalty doesn't make this nearly as useful as it could be, but 4d8-1 temp HP as an immediate action is nothing to sneer at.

Wraithstrike (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 2). Pure awesomesauce.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fractional BAB is out. I'm trying to avoid multi-class penalties, but it might be worth it to work in some Barbarian. My Charisma kinda sucks for Cleric.

Yes, Mystic Ranger already ditches Animal Companion. And no Pathfinder allowed. I only took the fourth level of Scout for the bonus feat so I could get SotAO at 6, and honestly didn't even look at Scout's level 5 ability. Evasion is definitely better than nothing. I'll definitely do that unless I find a better dip.

(I'm starting to wonder if I should even go SotAO... I just really wanted Dancing Chains for this character for story reasons.)

Thanks for posting that handbook! I'll be sure to read through it when I have some time.

SotAO is definitely one of the strongest feats out there, doubly so for a Mystic Ranger (thought I would say check with your DM the CL issue, normally Rangers only have 1/2 Ranger level for CL but Mystic Rangers have spellcasting all their career so check what would be your CL) so I say take it! and never look back.

You could go Barbarian 2/Scout3/Ranger 15 to get pounce, martial weapons proficiency, improved trip as a bonus feat skirmish as a level 18 scout, favoured enemies as a level 18 Ranger BAB 19 and a huge amount of skill points (go scout for the first level for more skill points)

And he doesn't need trap expert scout already gives trapfinding (and the Errata gives them Disable Device as a skill)

Edit: The Quickblast seems like a good option for fell drain or fell animate :evilplans:

[Nepenthe]

Thanks for all the tips!

I'll definitely switch my Favored Enemies to Undead and Constructs.

My first thought was actually Barbarian 2/Scout 3/Mystic Ranger X (not necessarily in that order). The only thing is that I have four feats all jockeying for that level 6 slot (SotAO, Swift Hunter, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack). Without Scout 4, I'll have to take Swift Hunter at 9 and push back everything else. I'm currently playing a Power Attacking Barbarian without Shock Trooper and it's an experience I'd rather not duplicate (Swing-and-a-miss! Again!). Now that I think of it, a couple well-timed fighter levels might work.

Currently getting my Pounce on via Lion's Charge, by the way.

Thanks again, everyone! Keep 'em coming.

[Godskook]

Scout 4 > Fighter 1, just FYI. You get your skill points, swift hunter progression, and your HD isn't that important.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Thanks for all the tips!

I'll definitely switch my Favored Enemies to Undead and Constructs.

My first thought was actually Barbarian 2/Scout 3/Mystic Ranger X (not necessarily in that order). The only thing is that I have four feats all jockeying for that level 6 slot (SotAO, Swift Hunter, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack). Without Scout 4, I'll have to take Swift Hunter at 9 and push back everything else. I'm currently playing a Power Attacking Barbarian without Shock Trooper and it's an experience I'd rather not duplicate (Swing-and-a-miss! Again!). Now that I think of it, a couple well-timed fighter levels might work.

Currently getting my Pounce on via Lion's Charge, by the way.

Thanks again, everyone! Keep 'em coming.

At what level are you starting? that may help you to decide on a build

[hex0]

Does anyone have suggestions for a good 2-3 level prestige class dip?

Dragon Devotee increases Skirimish. Not that it is a great class. You get some boosts though and free 2 levels of sorcerer casting as well.

[Nepenthe]

Starting at level 9.

Thanks again everyone!

[Dusk Eclipse]

As a SHotAO you dont need shock trooper to reliably hit as you have spells like Wraithstrike or Bite of the Were-critter to buff yourself. Besides THF is not served as well by skirimish as TWF so I dont see why you would want that feat sink...

The Barb2/scout3/mystic ranger4 sounds good and it doesn't matter you would have to delay Swift Hunter to level 9 as you will already be there.

[hex0]

You can also take Trapsmith/Swiftblade. Swiftblade essentially gets an boosted Skirimish as well.

[hex0]

Besides THF is not served as well by skirimish as TWF so I dont see why you would want that feat sink...

You can always have both. greataxe and armor spikes.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can always have both. greataxe and armor spikes.

Still armor spikes wont benefit from PA, and pursuing both combat styles is just setting on fire more feats on an already feat starved build. Not optimal by any stretch of imagination.

[hex0]

Still armor spikes wont benefit from PA, and pursuing both combat styles is just setting on fire more feats on an already feat starved build. Not optimal by any stretch of imagination.

But you are already getting TWF for free?

[Nepenthe]

I traded TWF for Strong Arm Style (Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Great Cleave), but I'm beginning to doubt that decision. Maybe TWF with a staff would be better. Especially with access to Entangling Staff =D. For some reason I was thinking skirmish only worked on the first attack each round. I'm probably wrong though because that makes no sense whatsoever (away from books at the moment).

[hex0]

More attacks = more chances to hit. One of the player in my party had a greataxe/armor spikes ranger with power attack and it worked very well. Armor spikes are nice because you cant be disarmed and can be used in a pinch if grappled or swallowed alive. There is also the option to use a polearm and armor spikes to have your bases covered. People have this stereotype that rangers have to use scimitars and crap.

[Coidzor]

I'm trying to avoid multi-class penalties,

Refer to my signature for this one.

[hex0]

I don't see the appeal of Mystic Ranger and/or SOTAO so much. It just seems like a weaker Duskblade to me. Could you make a mutliclass feat for Scout and Duskblade? Like...stack for Skirmish and Arcane Channeling?

[Seerow]

I don't see the appeal of Mystic Ranger and/or SOTAO so much. It just seems like a weaker Duskblade to me. Could you make a mutliclass feat for Scout and Duskblade? Like...stack for Skirmish and Arcane Channeling?

Duskblade has a much weaker spell list. You trade the channeling and other stuff from Duskblade to get access to all of the ranger spells and wizard spells. That's a pretty fair trade off.

[hex0]

Duskblade has a much weaker spell list. You trade the channeling and other stuff from Duskblade to get access to all of the ranger spells and wizard spells. That's a pretty fair trade off.

But you'd have to have high INT and WIS for Mystic Ranger to use all the spells, right?

[Dusk Eclipse]

But you'd have to have high INT and WIS for Mystic Ranger to use all the spells, right?

15 Int and Wis is more than enough, and you could even dump one or the other if you decide to focus on one type of spells over the other.

With the Keen intelect feat you could dump wis entirely as your will saves and many skills (particularly the perception ones) are now keyed of Int.

If you need some extra spell slots grab some of falling star substitution levels (you can even grab a CL boost this way) but it is setting specific and even goddess specific, so something to think about.

And before I forget: Mystic Ranger,
Shooting Star, Sword of The Arcane Order... A Mini-Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10830.0)

[Nepenthe]

That mini-guide implies that I won't be able to use arcane spell completion/trigger items. Is that true? If so, SotAO just got a lot less attractive. I always assumed that "spell in personal spellbook" == "spell known."

[Dusk Eclipse]

That mini-guide implies that I won't be able to use arcane spell completion/trigger items. Is that true? If so, SotAO just got a lot less attractive. I always assumed that "spell in personal spellbook" == "spell known."

Well SotAo is sadly, not very specific so there is much Ask your DM (TM) involved with it.

[Coidzor]

And before I forget: Mystic Ranger,
Shooting Star, Sword of The Arcane Order... A Mini-Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10830.0)

Seems overly generous/lazy in stating as facts details which are debatable, especially the last two which it does not back up sufficiently to show that it is a fact and frequently are subjects of debate.

[Nepenthe]

I can't make up my mind about this build!

Now I'm tempted to just go Wiz 1/Barbarian 2/Mystic Ranger X (SotAO and standard charging feats) and call it good. Not bother with scout or swift hunter at all.

But to be honest, I'm kinda hoping someone talks me out of it.

Signed,
Nepenthe the Indecisive

[Donox]

Another option that you have would be making a SotAO+Mystic Ranger 6/Swiftblade 3. That would net you substantially higher level spells, and more of them than Wiz 1/Barb 2/Mystic Ranger X.

Swiftblade also gives a kind of skirmish, but it has a bunch of other great abilities as well. The only issue that I can see is that the swiftblade's cap stone is subpar for a character that lacks higher level spellslots, although at that point you could skip level 10 and grab 5 levels of spellsword/abjurant champion.

Honestly, you give up too much spellcasting ability if you have to take 3 levels of scout for swift hunter.

[Nepenthe]

Swiftblade only advances arcane classes, so other than free quickening for haste, I'm not seeing much of a benefit. Am I doing it wrong?

[hex0]

Swiftblade only advances arcane classes, so other than free quickening for haste, I'm not seeing much of a benefit. Am I doing it wrong?

You are right, Swiftblade wouldn't work with ranger. But as was said many times this week, (whatever 5), Trapsmith 1 lets you get into Swiftblade early.

[Nepenthe]

Ok, I have rulings from my DM on Sword of the Arcane Order and Shooting Star:

1. A Mystic Ranger's caster level equals his levels in the Mystic Ranger class.
2. Wizard spells prepared in Ranger slots are still arcane.
3. Sword of the Arcane Order provides access to the sorc/wiz list for purposes of activating wands/scrolls.
4. Shooting Star's Improved Spellcasting applies to any spell prepared in a Ranger slot (!).

He also waived multi-class experience penalties (still feels like cheating to me, but I'm not too proud to take advantage).

So back to my original Swift Hunter concept, I have more options now:

Build 1
Mystic Ranger 1/Conjurer 1/Mystic Ranger 3/Scout 4/Mystic Ranger X
Sword of the Arcane Order and Swift Hunter, of course. TWF Style. Abrupt Jaunt, 'cause why not? Practiced Spellcaster plus Shooting Star subs net me CL 13 when I enter play at level 9. Only 2nd level slots but up to 7th level scrolls.

This build uses skirmish as the main source of damage. I've got a ton of open feats here, as almost everything I need is granted by class levels and I haven't decided what I want yet. Probably pick up Travel Devotion. Maybe some Metamagic (although only level 5 slots makes this seem a little silly)? Scout 4 isn't strictly necessary, but it's better than Ranger 16.

Build 2
Mystic Ranger 3/Spiritual Totem Barbarian (Lion) 1/Scout 4/Mystic Ranger X
Still using Sword of the Arcane Order and Swift Hunter. Whirling Frenzy for the Barbarian level. Shooting Star would actually lower Caster Level on this one, so skip it. With Practiced Spellcaster I'm only down one CL anyway. Strong Arm combat style (as in the original post), Combat Brute, Shock Trooper, etc.

This build focuses on Power Attack for damage with skirmish making charges that much more painful. Advantages: I don't have to worry about setting up skirmish every round to be effective in melee. Always on Pounce means not having to waste swift actions for Lion's Charge all the time.

Build 3 would be some kind of unholy marriage of the first two (Conjurer 1/Barbarian 1/Scout 3/Mystic Ranger X in whatever order gets me what I need at the correct levels). Most likely utilizing the tactics of the second build, but squeezing in a Conjurer level for the boost in Caster Level.

As an aside: Is there an item that functions as a Potion Belt (PGtF) but for scrolls? I've seen bandoliers (also PGtF), but they don't allow drawing for free.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think there was such item for scrolls in the MiC... IIRC up to 50 scrolls and you can draw the scroll you want as a free action.

[Nepenthe]

My current line of thinking is looking like this:

STR 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 8
Mystic Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Ranger 3/Scout 3/Mystic Ranger X

01 Mystic Ranger - Skilled City-Dweller (Gather Information, Tumble); Improved Unarmed Strike; Travel Devotion
02 Spiritual Totem Barbarian (lion) - Whirling Frenzy
03 Wizard: Specialist (Conjuration) - Abrubt Jaunt; Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)
04 Mystic Ranger - STR +1; Arcane Hunter
05 Mystic Ranger - Combat style (Two-Weapon Fighting)
06 Mystic Ranger - Improved Spellcasting; Sword of the Arcane Order
07 Scout -
08 Scout - STR +1
09 Scout - Swift Hunter
---------Begin Play----------------
10 Mystic Ranger - Favored Enemy (Undead)
11 Mystic Ranger -
12 Mystic Ranger - INT +1; Improved Combat Style (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting); Snap Kick
13 Mystic Ranger -
14 Mystic Ranger - Favored Enemy (Constructs)
15 Mystic Ranger - Extended Rage
16 Mystic Ranger -
17 Mystic Ranger - WIS +1; Combat Style Mastery (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting)
18 Mystic Ranger - Craft Contingent Spell
19 Mystic Ranger -
20 Mystic Ranger -

[nedz]

I'm not seeing Complete Scoundral's Improved Skirmish feat in your skirmish build. +2d6 and +2 AC.
Perhaps you think its feta rather than a feat though :smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

I'm not seeing Complete Scoundral's Improved Skirmish feat in your skirmish build. +2d6 and +2 AC.
Perhaps you think its feta rather than a feat though :smallbiggrin:
The feat only applies if you move 20+ feet, which is quite a feat in and of itself if you want to full attack afterwards. Pounce will only carry you so far, since if your opponent wasn't defeated by your first attack, you can't get it off again with any sort of reliability (since Travel Devotion's only 1/day for this build, and Abrupt Jaunt is not very far-reaching).

[Nepenthe]

It wasn't included because the online resource I was using listed it as [EPIC]. That's what I get for trusting websites I guess. I'll check that out as soon as I'm back at my books. Probably do that at 15 and push Extended Rage back to 18.

Thanks for the tip!

[Flickerdart]

Two versions are featured in two different books, the Epic one in Complete Adventurer being a lot worse than the regular one in Complete Scoundrel.